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你认识那个“床铺”吗?
Thread poster: Meixia Jordan
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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Maybe yes, maybe not Jan 4, 2017

coolfool wrote:

也许吧;有可能

Merriam-Webster's Advanced Learner's English Dictionary:
Can I go to the party?” “We'll see.” [= maybe, perhaps]
Things will get better, you'll see.

When Trump said "We’ll see", it means he didn't want to make a decision immediately. "We'll see" is also a term parents often use when a child wants something and they don't want to say yes or no. Usually it means "No", but sometimes it means "Yes". As a matter of fact, Trump said "he would not meet with any foreign leaders while President Barack Obama is still in office".

coolfool wrote:

Merriam-Webster's Advanced Learner's English Dictionary:
Things will get better, you'll see.

IMHO, "you'll see" in this example means "you'll find out".

See Definition 3 for detail in Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary:
http://learnersdictionary.com/definition/see


 
ysun
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用机器翻译 Jan 4, 2017

wherestip wrote:

That reminds me of the insistence by someone in translating the English phrase "jumping up and down" into "上蹿下跳" ...

难怪翻译公司和出版社只愿意按“每个字2分人民币”付稿酬。


 
ysun
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Agree Jan 4, 2017

wherestip wrote:

ysun wrote:

可見,川普的意思只不过是“看情况吧”或“到时候再说”,却丝毫没有“擦亮眼睛等待着”或“期待着”的意思。可见,翻译不能按自己的主观臆测而添油加醋,也不能滥用成语。


Indeed. 比较通俗的口头语就是 “再看吧”、“再说吧”。

【再說】
http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?o=dcbdic&searchid=Z00000138376


 
David Lin
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wait and see Jan 5, 2017

拭目以待 = wait and see

和 We'll see 的意思相同,成语没有用错。

https://www.moedict.tw/~拭目以待


 
Meixia Jordan
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We'll see Jan 5, 2017

David Lin wrote:

拭目以待 = wait and see

和 We'll see 的意思相同,成语没有用错。

https://www.moedict.tw/~拭目以待


“拭目以待”一词含有期待某事发生的意味,在德文解释'die Entwicklung aufmerksam verfolgen'中,aufmerksam这一词也强调了关注/期盼的意味 。
而“We'll see”则往往没有那份期待,而是maybe, maybe not。
比如我问朋友是否有信心通过考试,他回答说 We'll see,那就表明他认为自己可能顺利考过,也可能考不过。
在孙先生提出的记者问川普是否可能与某人会面的例子中,川普回答的“We’ll see”不应该翻译成“拭目以待”,而是“也许吧”的意思,这是一个模棱两可的回答。


 
David Lin
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事情的发展及结果 Jan 5, 2017

Meixia Jordan wrote:

David Lin wrote:

拭目以待 = wait and see

和 We'll see 的意思相同,成语没有用错。

https://www.moedict.tw/~拭目以待


“拭目以待”一词含有期待某事发生的意味,在德文解释'die Entwicklung aufmerksam verfolgen'中,aufmerksam这一词也强调了关注/期盼的意味 。
而“We'll see”则往往没有那份期待,而是maybe, maybe not。
比如我问朋友是否有信心通过考试,他回答说 We'll see,那就表明他认为自己可能顺利考过,也可能考不过。
在孙先生提出的记者问川普是否可能与某人会面的例子中,川普回答的“We’ll see”不应该翻译成“拭目以待”,而是“也许吧”的意思,这是一个模棱两可的回答。



“拭目以待” 是比喻-期待事情的發展及結果

发展和结果也可以是正或反,也是一个模棱两可的含义吧。

正如你说的考试例子 - 通过或不通过。


 
coolfool
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Rehash an old article once more Jan 5, 2017

余光中释bumbler:大智若愚
(2012-11-25)

(台北讯)台湾总统马英九前天到高雄拜会中山大学教授、诗人余光中,余光中对英国《经济学人》杂志以“bumbler”形容马英九一事说,“bumbler”其实有“拙”之意,有大智若愚、愚公移山的精神,“媒体的翻译有问题”。

今年已经84岁的余光中,英文造诣深厚,曾在台湾与美国大学英文系任教。据台湾媒�
... See more
余光中释bumbler:大智若愚
(2012-11-25)

(台北讯)台湾总统马英九前天到高雄拜会中山大学教授、诗人余光中,余光中对英国《经济学人》杂志以“bumbler”形容马英九一事说,“bumbler”其实有“拙”之意,有大智若愚、愚公移山的精神,“媒体的翻译有问题”。

今年已经84岁的余光中,英文造诣深厚,曾在台湾与美国大学英文系任教。据台湾媒体报道,他前天特地替近来饱受“笨蛋”误译风波困扰的马英九缓颊,指“bumbler”是“拙”的意思,也有踏实、负责任和不轻举妄动的精神。

余光中强调,“bumbler”并没有负面的意思,“就像是大智若愚、大巧若拙和愚公移山等意思”,被翻译成“笨蛋”是部分台湾媒体翻译程度有问题。他还举出知名庭园“拙政园”为例,指并非意味着笨拙的意思,为马英九打气。

马英九则首度对此回应说,他从小父亲就以曾国藩的“尚诚尚拙”生活哲学,“以天下之至诚,胜天下之至伪;为天下之至拙,胜天下之至巧”来告诫他,此事让大家清楚也好,“若事实有错误会澄清,若有意见,听了也会检讨”。身为国家元首,他不会介意这些事。

http://www.zaobao.com/zg/zg121125_004.shtml
Collapse


 
wherestip
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neutrality Jan 5, 2017

David Lin wrote:

Meixia Jordan wrote:

David Lin wrote:

拭目以待 = wait and see

和 We'll see 的意思相同,成语没有用错。

https://www.moedict.tw/~拭目以待


“拭目以待”一词含有期待某事发生的意味,在德文解释'die Entwicklung aufmerksam verfolgen'中,aufmerksam这一词也强调了关注/期盼的意味 。
而“We'll see”则往往没有那份期待,而是maybe, maybe not。
比如我问朋友是否有信心通过考试,他回答说 We'll see,那就表明他认为自己可能顺利考过,也可能考不过。
在孙先生提出的记者问川普是否可能与某人会面的例子中,川普回答的“We’ll see”不应该翻译成“拭目以待”,而是“也许吧”的意思,这是一个模棱两可的回答。



“拭目以待” 是比喻-期待事情的發展及結果

发展和结果也可以是正或反,也是一个模棱两可的含义吧。

正如你说的考试例子 - 通过或不通过。




The English phrase "we'll see" doesn't have the emotional component of any anxiousness or excitement as the Chinese idiom "拭目以待" does, i.e., 殷切期盼或等待.

That's why 拭目以待 is a poor translation in the given context.


[Edited at 2017-01-05 14:27 GMT]


 
ysun
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客观、中立 Jan 5, 2017

wherestip wrote:

neutrality

The English phrase "we'll see" doesn't have the emotional component of any anxiousness or excitement as the Chinese idiom "拭目以待" does, i.e., 殷切期盼或等待.

That's why 拭目以待 is a poor translation in the given context.

Steve,

我完全同意你与 Meixia 的意见。年代不同了。作为一名翻译,应持中立立场,客观地进行翻译,丝毫不能夹带任何感情色彩。原文是中立的,不带任何感情色彩。翻译时也应该客观地如实翻译。"We'll see" 毫无期盼或等待的含意,更谈不上“殷切”。

如果说,look forward to [phrasal verb] 或 look forward to (something),那就意味着 to expect (something) with pleasure。例如,He’s looking forward to meeting you.


[Edited at 2017-01-05 18:55 GMT]


 
ysun
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“拭目以待”的行为主体 Jan 5, 2017

David Lin wrote:

拭目以待 = wait and see

和 We'll see 的意思相同,成语没有用错。

https://www.moedict.tw/~拭目以待

请问,你认为谁是“拭目以待”的行为主体?是 Trump 还是提问的记者?还是别的什么人?


 
David Lin
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Two meanings available for the idom Jan 5, 2017

wherestip wrote:

The English phrase "we'll see" doesn't have the emotional component of any anxiousness or excitement as the Chinese idiom "拭目以待" does, i.e., 殷切期盼或等待.

That's why 拭目以待 is a poor translation in the given context.



Please beware that the Chinese idiom 拭目以待 has in fact two meanings:

1. 殷切期望



2. 等待某事实现

The English translation given in the link below is to "wait and see" - a neutral meaning indeed.

This link is the same I used in my last post:
https://www.moedict.tw/~拭目以待

Baidu even gives an additional English meaning -- "adopt a wait-and-see attitude", which I think is also fairly neutral.

I think it is up to you which meaning you pick when reading the idiom 拭目以待 in the given context.

You, ysun and Meixia seem to pick the first one - 殷切期望. For me it is the neutral one, for 某事 can or cannot 实现 anyway. No one knows. For this reason, I think the translator was right to use the neutral meaning of the idiom which gives the accurate presentation of what Trump said.

Hope this helps.


 
wherestip
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Disagree Jan 5, 2017

David Lin wrote:

wherestip wrote:

The English phrase "we'll see" doesn't have the emotional component of any anxiousness or excitement as the Chinese idiom "拭目以待" does, i.e., 殷切期盼或等待.

That's why 拭目以待 is a poor translation in the given context.



Please beware that the Chinese idiom 拭目以待 has in fact two meanings:

1. 殷切期望



2. 等待某事实现

The English translation given in the link below is to "wait and see" - a neutral meaning indeed.

This link is the same I used in my last post:
https://www.moedict.tw/~拭目以待

Baidu even gives an additional English meaning -- "adopt a wait-and-see attitude", which I think is also fairly neutral.

I think it is up to you which meaning you pick when reading the idiom 拭目以待 in the given context.

You, ysun and Meixia seem to pick the first one - 殷切期望. For me it is the neutral one, for 某事 can or cannot 实现 anyway. No one knows. For this reason, I think the translator was right to use the neutral meaning of the idiom which gives the accurate presentation of what Trump said.

Hope this helps.


Well, David. We'll just have to be willing to differ.


 
ysun
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老问题 Jan 5, 2017

David Lin wrote:

Please beware that the Chinese idiom 拭目以待 has in fact two meanings:

1. 殷切期望



2. 等待某事实现

既然你认为 "We'll see" 是“等待某事实现”的意思,那么究竟是谁在“等待某事实现”?是川普、记者还是该国外领导人?


 
David Lin
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老手法 Jan 5, 2017

ysun wrote: 老问题

David Lin wrote: Two meanings available for the idom

Please beware that the Chinese idiom 拭目以待 has in fact two meanings:

1. 殷切期望



2. 等待某事实现

既然你认为 "We'll see" 是“等待某事实现”的意思,那么究竟是谁在 “等待某事实现”?是川普、记者还是该国外领导人?


新闻译成 “请拭目以待“ 。

有点像章回小说或武侠小说的写作方式:

”欲知后事如何,且听下回分解“。

这是被访问者的聪明答案 ~ 等着瞧!

哈哈!


[Edited at 2017-01-05 23:32 GMT]


 
David Lin
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No problem Jan 5, 2017

wherestip wrote:

Well, David. We'll just have to be willing to differ.


Sure Steve! Nothing's better than we agree to disagree. The truth should come out after a healthy debate. We let the readers make up their minds on the best answer, and we move on.

Take care.


 
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你认识那个“床铺”吗?






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