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Suggestion: make KudoZ answers anonymous to non-moderators
Thread poster: Luiza Kipper
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:39
Member (2008)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Simplistic approach Mar 10, 2015

KudoZ is not a multiple choice test.
Sometimes there is no correct answer, sometimes there are several correct answers, sometimes the most useful answer is not the most correct.
And very often, the discussion is more helpful that the actual answers.

Siegfried has hit the nail on the head:

Siegfried Armbruster wrote:

Luiza Kipper wrote:
If KudoZ is not about winning points nor about being "Mother Theresa", then what is it about? Licking your colleagues boots? hehe


Maybe it is there to help your colleagues and to get help when you need it
Maybe it is there to help you to establish yourself as a specialist in a certain field
Maybe it is a tool that promotes networking in certain specialties

And, like the fora, it may be a tool that allows some insight in soft skills a person has or not - hehe




[Edited at 2015-03-11 10:05 GMT]


 
neilmac
neilmac
Spain
Local time: 12:39
Spanish to English
+ ...
Agree Mar 11, 2015

Kitty Maerz wrote:

I see the "thank you" a bit different. I don't think it is intended as a thanks for agreeing with an answer as such (as others have pointed out either you agree or you don't) but for taking the trouble to consider the matter and weigh in with one's opinion.



I was just thinking that just now. Also, there are some translators in my pair that I know are usually spot-on and others that are obviously total chancers (even some that appear not to be native speakers of either language in the pair) and I like to know where my contributions are coming from, so at the end of the day I think I can live with the status quo.


 
Balasubramaniam L.
Balasubramaniam L.  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 17:09
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
It would remove a lot of useful context Mar 11, 2015

As others have said, a lot rides on who is asking and who is answering. I sometimes look up the profile of the person who is asking and answering before deciding on how to answer the question or how to evaluate an answer. Over a period of time you get to know who is asking and who is answering and the name associated with an answer is the best guarantor of the quality of the answer. I have often sided with answers that have seemed absurd or inappropriate at first glance, but the name associated ... See more
As others have said, a lot rides on who is asking and who is answering. I sometimes look up the profile of the person who is asking and answering before deciding on how to answer the question or how to evaluate an answer. Over a period of time you get to know who is asking and who is answering and the name associated with an answer is the best guarantor of the quality of the answer. I have often sided with answers that have seemed absurd or inappropriate at first glance, but the name associated with it has forced me to give it more thought and I have eventually come around to agreeing with the answer. If the answerer's name had been hidden, I would have just treated it as a nonsensical answer, and graded it as such.

Also, we are all busy professionals. We don't have time to provide lengthy backgrounds or justifications or links to our answers. Many useful answers are just a word, but backed up by a translator with a solid professional reputation. If we make the answer anonymous, this useful context would be lost, and that would diminish the value of the answer.

That is the altruistic aspect. Now let us consider the the more practical and mundane aspects of the system. The very value of kudoz, as it is designed in this site, is that it provides visibility and advertisement to the answerers. Each answer is like a newspaper insert adversing the services provided by the answer. If you make kudoz answers incognito, the self-promotional value of kudoz answers would be lost.

As the outsourcers who have participated in this thread have explained, kudoz is also used to evaluate translators. How can that be done if the answers are all anonymous?

So in my opinion, this won't be a good idea, although I can see where you are coming from. Kudoz needs fixing, but in other quarters.

[Edited at 2015-03-11 07:52 GMT]
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Sandra & Kenneth Grossman
Sandra & Kenneth Grossman  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 13:39
French to English
+ ...
Totally disagree Mar 11, 2015

It would be a disaster on a much grander scale than the mere allocation of some points. This would simply destroy the trust in the huge searchable database of translation terms accumulated over the years. In it, some people are more trustworthy than others. A whole bunch of anonymous answers would be much less reliable when searching this database by lowering the trust in experienced answerers. It would make it worthless.

The trust, respect and official recognition of fellow transla
... See more
It would be a disaster on a much grander scale than the mere allocation of some points. This would simply destroy the trust in the huge searchable database of translation terms accumulated over the years. In it, some people are more trustworthy than others. A whole bunch of anonymous answers would be much less reliable when searching this database by lowering the trust in experienced answerers. It would make it worthless.

The trust, respect and official recognition of fellow translators is the whole point of the KudoZ system and the foundation of the ProZ site. It relies on a point-based directory listing for terminological help building on experience and research, unlike any other site.

This is a great way to distinguish yourself as a professional, while doing what you probably like best anyway - tackling terminological challenges!

Welcome to the KudoZ system, Luiza!

Sandra
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Andrea Jarmuschewski
Andrea Jarmuschewski  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 12:39
Member (2007)
French to German
+ ...
Clarification as I have understood the OP's idea Mar 11, 2015

1) Askers are not anonymous.

2) Answerers are only anonoymous until the question has been closed / the KudoZ points attributed.


Do I understand you correctly, Luiza?

Anyway, that is what I would support.


 
Susana E. Cano Méndez
Susana E. Cano Méndez  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:39
French to Spanish
+ ...
@Luiza Mar 11, 2015

Luiza Kipper wrote:

Some users write things like "Thanks, friend!" when someone agrees with them and I think this is highly indicative of biased behavior, not politeness.



Well, I usually reply saying: "Thanks, [colleague's name or nickname]". I'm just being polite. This doesn't harm anybody.

If my answer is selected by the asker, but I still have doubts about it (maybe because other colleague has hit the point more accurately), when I have to enter the term into the glossary, I write [dubious answer - see discussion].

That's how I understand Kudoz.


 
neilmac
neilmac
Spain
Local time: 12:39
Spanish to English
+ ...
Lovely turn of phrase Mar 11, 2015

DLyons wrote:

Luiza Kipper wrote:

Need I say more?


Yes, you do. Rather more crudely, using a blunderbuss, one will occasionally hit something.

"True ease in writing comes from art, not chance,
As those move easiest who have learned to dance."
Alexander Pope, Essays in Criticism,



That brought a smile and audible chuckle (a lol, if you like) to my face


 
Fiona Grace Peterson
Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 12:39
Italian to English
Experience, or lack of Mar 11, 2015

Looking at your profile, Luiza, I see you have not been a member of ProZ for very long, nor do you have many KudoZ points. That is not in itself a bad thing (everyone has to start somewhere), however it does make me question the real motives behind this thread. I am sure that once you gain some experience in using the system (I notice you have not yourself asked any questions), you will see the value in knowing where the answers are coming from, what kind of background and experience answerers h... See more
Looking at your profile, Luiza, I see you have not been a member of ProZ for very long, nor do you have many KudoZ points. That is not in itself a bad thing (everyone has to start somewhere), however it does make me question the real motives behind this thread. I am sure that once you gain some experience in using the system (I notice you have not yourself asked any questions), you will see the value in knowing where the answers are coming from, what kind of background and experience answerers have, and so on and so forth.Collapse


 
Norskpro
Norskpro
Norway
Local time: 12:39
Member
English to Norwegian
+ ...
What it's about Mar 11, 2015

Luiza Kipper wrote:

If KudoZ is not about winning points nor about being "Mother Theresa", then what is it about? Licking your colleagues boots? hehe


Of course it is good to get points, but that is not all. For me, when I answer, it is also about the challenge of finding the right term, wanting to know what it could actually be. It is a mystery that I like trying solve. As for being "Mother Theresa" as you put it, there is nothing wrong with helping out fellow translators here at Proz. One day it could be you needing the help.


 
Luiza Kipper
Luiza Kipper  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 08:39
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes Mar 11, 2015

Andrea Jarmuschewski wrote:

1) Askers are not anonymous.

2) Answerers are only anonoymous until the question has been closed / the KudoZ points attributed.


Do I understand you correctly, Luiza?

Anyway, that is what I would support.


Yes.


 
Luiza Kipper
Luiza Kipper  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 08:39
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Wrong quote Mar 11, 2015

Norskpro wrote:

Luiza Kipper wrote:

If KudoZ is not about winning points nor about being "Mother Theresa", then what is it about? Licking your colleagues boots? hehe


Of course it is good to get points, but that is not all. For me, when I answer, it is also about the challenge of finding the right term, wanting to know what it could actually be. It is a mystery that I like trying solve. As for being "Mother Theresa" as you put it, there is nothing wrong with helping out fellow translators here at Proz. One day it could be you needing the help.


I was quoting another post. You should have quoted him, it wasn't me who said that thing about being Mother Theresa... Specifically, it was Siegfried Armbruster on the 1st page if you want to look up. I quoted him exactly because I did not agree.


 
Siegfried Armbruster
Siegfried Armbruster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 12:39
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
No you did not Mar 11, 2015

Luiza Kipper wrote:
I was quoting another post. You should have quoted him, it wasn't me who said that thing about being Mother Theresa... Specifically, it was Siegfried Armbruster on the 1st page if you want to look up. I quoted him exactly because I did not agree.


Don't claim that you quoted me exactly, because this is not what you did. You quoted what you wanted to quote, out of context.


 
Luiza Kipper
Luiza Kipper  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 08:39
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
My final considerations Mar 11, 2015

I see that my idea wasn't well accepted overall. That's fine. I didn't mean to offend, only to look at things objectively and maybe help improve the system. I feel good for having the space to manifest my suggestion.

I will retire myself from the discussion now.

Best regards to all.


 
Sandra & Kenneth Grossman
Sandra & Kenneth Grossman  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 13:39
French to English
+ ...
My own final considerations Mar 11, 2015

Luiza Kipper wrote:

I see that my idea wasn't well accepted overall. That's fine. I didn't mean to offend, only to look at things objectively and maybe help improve the system. I feel good for having the space to manifest my suggestion.



You could not look at things objectively, let alone improve things, because you don't know the system.
We all have this space to express opinions,
Good luck,
Sandra


 
magdadh
magdadh
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:39
Polish to English
+ ...
Very interesting discussion... Mar 11, 2015

As a ProZ/KudoZ newbie, and a translator who's at the stage of moving from 'amateur/casual/in-the-course-of-other-work' to 'semi-professional-moving towards-professional', here is my few cents.


1) I ask questions. I get useful answers most of the time, and good answers (perhaps too late for me, but possibly useful overall) pretty much every time I ask. I also use proz as the first place I actually search for dubious terms I struggle with. In many, many situations, I do find
... See more
As a ProZ/KudoZ newbie, and a translator who's at the stage of moving from 'amateur/casual/in-the-course-of-other-work' to 'semi-professional-moving towards-professional', here is my few cents.


1) I ask questions. I get useful answers most of the time, and good answers (perhaps too late for me, but possibly useful overall) pretty much every time I ask. I also use proz as the first place I actually search for dubious terms I struggle with. In many, many situations, I do find a suitable term here, and if there are alternative options elsewhere, the proz option usually turns out to be the best. This is, in other words, a fantastic resource for me (maybe it varies by language pair, idk), both as a glossary, and as an interactive tool. As such, I think it's in the best interest of all concerned, and perhaps especially of the less experienced translators with access to less resources, to develop it. Contributing a bit where I can makes it grow, in a manner similar to all crowdfunding/wiki type systems.

2) The points, however much of a fun game gathering them might be, are incidental to me. Not even an icing on the cake. But if having them increases the chance of someone making an effort to answer, all the better for the system.

3) This might depend on the language pair, but the social aspect of the process is part of the fun. Call it networking, call it a welcome distraction when you are bogged down in a tedious text. I think the benefits of anonymising the answers before the points are awarded are not worth that loss of human touch in the discussions.

4) I very strongly feel that the fact that a particular answer was chosen as the most helpful one or entered into the glossary is not necessarily a guide to its value for me as a user. The number of 'peer agreements' tends to be a better indicator in cases I don't know enough about the subject to make my own judgment.

5) Incidentally, I do think think that if the person searching for the term doesn't have enough knowledge of the subject area to be able to judge the answer, they shouldn't really be working on it in the first place. Single-language questions are a special case here, as far as I have seen so far, at least in EN, these tend to have askers with a significantly lower level of understanding/language skills than the vast majority of translation questions, again at least in 'my' language pair (PL/EN).

6)To summarise my already overlong post: even if the points system is used as a bit of a (social or not) game by some who participate, so what? The important thing is that there are answers being given, and that the resource is growing. The 'accuracy' or 'bias' relating to the way points are allocated is a non-issue. The non-chosen answers remain available and this is what matters.
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