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Why do people who have been on Proz for over 10 years continue to hide behind silly screen names?
Thread poster: Michael Beijer
Ty Kendall
Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:39
Hebrew to English
The Online Disinhibition Effect Mar 2, 2016

I actually think Michael has a point.
There are some good arguments for not allowing anonymous profiles, numerous studies have been done showing that anonymous users are more likely to be critical/unprofessional etc., for example:
When Arthur Santana, a communications professor at the University of Houston, analyzed nine hundred randomly chosen user comments on articles about immigration, half from newspapers that allowed anonymous postings, such as the Los Angeles Times and the
... See more
I actually think Michael has a point.
There are some good arguments for not allowing anonymous profiles, numerous studies have been done showing that anonymous users are more likely to be critical/unprofessional etc., for example:
When Arthur Santana, a communications professor at the University of Houston, analyzed nine hundred randomly chosen user comments on articles about immigration, half from newspapers that allowed anonymous postings, such as the Los Angeles Times and the Houston Chronicle, and half from ones that didn’t, including USA Today and the Wall Street Journal, he discovered that anonymity made a perceptible difference: a full fifty-three per cent of anonymous commenters were uncivil, as opposed to twenty-nine per cent of registered, non-anonymous commenters. Anonymity, Santana concluded, encouraged incivility.
http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/the-psychology-of-online-comments

It's not a problem that affects KudoZ in my language pair, but for me it has been more of an issue in the forums. This is not to say that people using their real names aren't sometimes real jerks, they are.

However, I think it might be pissing in the wind in trying to get ProZ to change this. Especially as there are some equally convincing arguments for maintaining the status quo.
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Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 08:39
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Are there any studies... Mar 2, 2016

showing identities and CVs are easier to steal and abuse if users are active with their real names in open spaces and clouds? I don't need studies, I've seen real examples. The creepiest one was when a person applied for my project with CV and identity stolen from one of our colleagues from the forums here. They only omitted their photo, and then edited their email, mailing address and phone number (with info from another continent). I just happened to know the person's name from the forum discu... See more
showing identities and CVs are easier to steal and abuse if users are active with their real names in open spaces and clouds? I don't need studies, I've seen real examples. The creepiest one was when a person applied for my project with CV and identity stolen from one of our colleagues from the forums here. They only omitted their photo, and then edited their email, mailing address and phone number (with info from another continent). I just happened to know the person's name from the forum discussions and went to their profile to compare the info, very creepy.

If this is a site for professionals (main point by OP), where are the shields, why are we not protected from such things? I'd rather then protect myself, somehow. And it's quite rude being called non-human for that.
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AndersonT (X)
AndersonT (X)  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:39
German to English
REAL reasons: Mar 2, 2016

This is actually not my first profile on ProZ.com. I used to have one before that I made in 1999.

It had all the bells and whistles a profile could have back then. My name, my CV freely available to everyone .... IT WAS GREAT!

It was great right up to the point where someone started using my CV, accepted jobs all over the place in my name just to then deliver MT garbage or not deliver at all and eventually even opened a credit card account in my name which was much much
... See more
This is actually not my first profile on ProZ.com. I used to have one before that I made in 1999.

It had all the bells and whistles a profile could have back then. My name, my CV freely available to everyone .... IT WAS GREAT!

It was great right up to the point where someone started using my CV, accepted jobs all over the place in my name just to then deliver MT garbage or not deliver at all and eventually even opened a credit card account in my name which was much much easier back then.

So yeah, thanks but no thanks. My name and my CV will never again appear on an "open" platform anyone with an email address can scrape to their heart's content.

Also, to the OP, there is a certain creepiness to your argument. If someone jerks you around in the KudoZ section you would presumably like to "out" them for it around here, no? Because who else would care about it outside of ProZ?

Your argument boils down to: "you've been a jerk to me and now I'm on a mission to expose you to the world for it", may I mention that this attitude sounds reeeeeally unhealthy. What's next? Repeat offenders that won't learn their lesson the first time get doXXed and exposed in front of their clients?

The Internet has indeed become a brave new world in its own right. Some people can't handle it. Getting these feelings of "I must know who you are so I can .... " is unhealthy my friend.

[Edited at 2016-03-02 09:49 GMT]
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Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 08:39
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Arguments by OP Mar 2, 2016

If someone is behaving in weird ways on KudoZ with their real name, what can I do about it? Go around tracking them down by their full name because they disagreed with me or because they wanted to engage in a 20 mile long discussion string about a small term? No, don't think so, I really have better things to do.

I mean, I don't understand what this thread is about. And yes, I don't think anyone outside KudoZ will care about internal KudoZ arguments, agreements or disagreements. Nam
... See more
If someone is behaving in weird ways on KudoZ with their real name, what can I do about it? Go around tracking them down by their full name because they disagreed with me or because they wanted to engage in a 20 mile long discussion string about a small term? No, don't think so, I really have better things to do.

I mean, I don't understand what this thread is about. And yes, I don't think anyone outside KudoZ will care about internal KudoZ arguments, agreements or disagreements. Names and nicknames have nothing to do with it.
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TonyTK
TonyTK
German to English
+ ...
Is that ... Mar 2, 2016

AndersonT wrote:

get doXXed



... worse than waterboarding?


 
Michael Beijer
Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:39
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I'm sorry for your loss... Mar 2, 2016

AndersonT wrote:

This is actually not my first profile on ProZ.com. I used to have one before that I made in 1999.

It had all the bells and whistles a profile could have back then. My name, my CV freely available to everyone .... IT WAS GREAT!

It was great right up to the point where someone started using my CV, accepted jobs all over the place in my name just to then deliver MT garbage or not deliver at all and eventually even opened a credit card account in my name which was much much easier back then.

So yeah, thanks but no thanks. My name and my CV will never again appear on an "open" platform anyone with an email address can scrape to their heart's content.

Also, to the OP, there is a certain creepiness to your argument. If someone jerks you around in the KudoZ section you would presumably like to "out" them for it around here, no? Because who else would care about it outside of ProZ?


Indeed. I couldn't care less about what Mr Anonymous is up to outside of the site.

If the rest of us in the Dutch-English KudoZ forums knew the real identity of these few masked tosspots, perhaps they'd think twice before hurling abuse our way. See also Ty Kendall's interesting contribution (The Online Disinhibition Effect) over on page #5 @ http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/298913-why_do_people_who_have_been_on_proz_for_over_10_years_continue_to_hide_behind_silly_screen_names-page4.html


Your argument boils down to: "you've been a jerk to me and now I'm on a mission to expose you to the world for it", may I mention that this attitude sounds reeeeeally unhealthy. What's next? Repeat offenders that won't learn their lesson the first time get doXXed and exposed in front of their clients?

The Internet has indeed become a brave new world in its own right. Some people can't handle it. Getting these feelings of "I must know who you are so I can .... " is unhealthy my friend.

[Edited at 2016-03-02 09:49 GMT]


Ha ha, calm down, AndersonT. Looks like you are the one with the unhealthy thoughts, not me. Speaking of unhealthy, one of these masked imbeciles actually once threatened he'd (she'd?) come to Hastings to beat me up. All nonsense of course, but still annoying, especially when he/she can continue to annoy me in the forums (clicking on "Disagree" every five seconds and constantly using way too many exclamation marks), and I still don't know who he/she is. Please note that I don't want to figure out who he/she is so I can do anything to him/her (I'm not that way inclined), I just think that unmasking him/her would help to change his/her behaviour towards me (and others) in the KudoZ forums, as it would make him/her more accountable for his/her actions.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience in the past, but please don't let it colour the picture you paint of me. I assure you I am not that creepy.

Michael

PS: I've also had my CV and identity stolen. God knows what Edward Mahana got up to with my identity, but to be honest, I don't really care. See: http://www.proz.com/forum/scams/264089-edward_mahana_the_translation_thief.html

[Edited at 2016-03-02 10:21 GMT]


 
Michael Beijer
Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:39
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Really? Mar 2, 2016

Lingua 5B wrote:

If someone is behaving in weird ways on KudoZ with their real name, what can I do about it? Go around tracking them down by their full name because they disagreed with me or because they wanted to engage in a 20 mile long discussion string about a small term? No, don't think so, I really have better things to do.

I mean, I don't understand what this thread is about. And yes, I don't think anyone outside KudoZ will care about internal KudoZ arguments, agreements or disagreements. Names and nicknames have nothing to do with it.


I bet that if people had to put their real names beneath what they said, it would make a difference in terms of how they act in public.

Michael

[Edited at 2016-03-02 10:27 GMT]


 
oxygen4u
oxygen4u
Portugal
Local time: 07:39
English to Portuguese
+ ...
@ Lingua 5B Mar 2, 2016

Ditto!

«Personally I wouldn't take KudoZ so seriously.»

That sums it up for me, basically.


 
Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 08:39
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Threats. Mar 2, 2016

OP, I believe you can report that to the police, if there were threats involved.

Disagreeing, being rude and/or playing KudoZ games is one thing, while threats of physical violence now that's a whole different level.

I can't believe it can escalate that far, is KudoZ really that important? And why is it important, can somebody explain it?


 
Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 08:39
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
You have a point however... Mar 2, 2016

Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:

Lingua 5B wrote:

If someone is behaving in weird ways on KudoZ with their real name, what can I do about it? Go around tracking them down by their full name because they disagreed with me or because they wanted to engage in a 20 mile long discussion string about a small term? No, don't think so, I really have better things to do.

I mean, I don't understand what this thread is about. And yes, I don't think anyone outside KudoZ will care about internal KudoZ arguments, agreements or disagreements. Names and nicknames have nothing to do with it.


I bet that if people had to put their real names beneath what they said, it would make a difference in terms of how they act in public.

Michael

[Edited at 2016-03-02 10:27 GMT]


I explained it earlier why it is risky for translators to expose their names publicly, however, you make a valid point and I agree, but there is a conflict of points here I am afraid.


 
Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:39
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Isn´t it even a facebook rule? Mar 2, 2016


I bet that if people had to put their real names beneath what they said, it make a difference in terms of how they act in public.


I´m not sure whether your theory makes a difference (I hope it would, too), but: Isn´t it even on facebook, LinkedIn and Xing rule to register with real names only (actually I don´t know for sure)? Even on facebook? And didn´t in the past wander a lot of outsourcers and freelancers away from proz to facebook et al?


 
AndersonT (X)
AndersonT (X)  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:39
German to English
Oh dear!!! Mar 2, 2016

Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:

...one of these masked imbeciles actually once threatened he'd (she'd?) come to Hastings to beat me up. All nonsense of course, but still annoying, especially when he/she can continue to annoy me in the forums (clicking on "Disagree" every five seconds and constantly using way too many exclamation marks), and I still don't know who he/she is.


Jeebus, what's going on over there? Haha! Sounds like a nuthouse!!! See, this is why I normally won't touch KudoZ even with a 10 foot pole.

I only ever bother with it when it comes to DE-EN medical, because that particular topic has a very competent yet very civilized gang of "usual suspects" hanging around, but other than that...

I guess I got a clearer picture of your frustrations now.

Thomas


 
laurgi
laurgi  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:39
German to French
I Mar 2, 2016

don't want direct clients to find me here by googling my name

 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:39
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Openness can also work Mar 2, 2016

AndersonT wrote:
It was great right up to the point where someone started using my CV, accepted jobs all over the place in my name just to then deliver MT garbage or not deliver at all

The problems with CVs and identity theft you raise can, I think, be mitigated by careful management of that identity.

It sounds counter-intuititive, but openness can also be a viable policy. If basic information on a person is widely available, any client can take a few seconds to check the identity of that person.

The argument I'm making is that if there is no information on that translator out there in the public domain, how can clients tell who that translator really is if/when a scam artist pretends to be that person? There is no reference point.

Googling "Dan Lucas translator" immediately pops up my name and the web site of my company, which shows the office address. That can be cross-checked against Companies House in the UK and against my LinkedIn profile.

If somebody tries to steal my identity and pretends to be me, clients who do due diligence can, within seconds, send me an email using the address in my CV or the contact form on the company website. Clients can't do that if there is no information about me in the public domain.

As I have said elsewhere, dishonest people can and will circumvent most systems, so clients should choose honest people to work with. That sounds obvious, but the most first and most basic step in finding an honest counterparty is being able to verify their identity.

I'm not suggesting that my approach doesn't have its own problems or that it is the right approach for everybody, but it has worked (so far) for me.

Regards
Dan


 
AndersonT (X)
AndersonT (X)  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:39
German to English
Agreed ... Mar 2, 2016

Dan Lucas wrote:

The problems with CVs and identity theft you raise can, I think, be mitigated by careful management of that identity....



Oh I perfectly agree, Dan.

I certainly do have all the proper channels in place. When I am being approached via ProZ you can be assured that my initial correspondence will contain my full CV, my emails contain a full and current signature and I also use a vanity email domain recipients can verify. Then there's of course the links to certifications, etc.

I'm not advocating "business with anonymous parties", so to speak. You put it quite eloquently when you said "management of the identity". Because that is what's really going on, your identity is a business asset (if you are a proper, qualified and reliable business entity that is ), and as such, it needs to be managed and protected accordingly.

In my personal experience, not serving it up on a silver platter for scraper bots and spiders is a basic first step towards due diligence. Low hanging fruit are picked first, it's no different when it comes to harvesting personal information online for nefarious purposes.

So yeah, I do agree with you for the most part. However, I prefer to reserve the "initial evaluation" for myself, rather than hoping that clients will be smart about it. Because lets be real for a moment, without meaning offense to anyone, most jobs posted around here are "acts of desperation" by project managers with a lack of available resources under tremendous deadline pressure. I doubt that many of them will be performing appropriate background checks, especially considering the barrage of quotes they are being subjected to on a regular basis.


 
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Why do people who have been on Proz for over 10 years continue to hide behind silly screen names?






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