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How best to deal with officialese?
Thread poster: Phoebe Indetzki
sailingshoes
sailingshoes
Local time: 07:34
Spanish to English
Be clear but adopt right terminology Nov 26, 2013

I recently offered this opinion to an agency on a job that seemed to have been translated in an over-complicated style:

A contract should be translated into clear and simple English that includes all of the necessary legal terms, but in such a way that it will be easily intelligible for non-native readers with a good level of English.

I think there's middle ground between the rubbish in/out view and the 'always render prefect English line'. If you consider the source te
... See more
I recently offered this opinion to an agency on a job that seemed to have been translated in an over-complicated style:

A contract should be translated into clear and simple English that includes all of the necessary legal terms, but in such a way that it will be easily intelligible for non-native readers with a good level of English.

I think there's middle ground between the rubbish in/out view and the 'always render prefect English line'. If you consider the source text badly written, possibly due to the fact that it uses convoluted sentences and unclear terms, you could draw attention to this fact. After all, you aren't being paid to re-write rubbish.

Having said that, many translators accept bad source material out of necessity and hand back perfect English: if you want to do that, it's your call.
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sailingshoes
sailingshoes
Local time: 07:34
Spanish to English
An example Nov 26, 2013

I have to translate the grounds given by Cassation judges here in Italy for their rulings pretty often. The sentences run on for half a page, dropping punctuation here and there, at which point the judges (normally old crusty guys) seem to go on holiday or for a coffee or for a pee break.

Sometimes you can get these 'endless' (i.e. both long and without any evident conclusion) sentences a number of times on a single page. I think they're even proud of it. 'I didn't get where I am t
... See more
I have to translate the grounds given by Cassation judges here in Italy for their rulings pretty often. The sentences run on for half a page, dropping punctuation here and there, at which point the judges (normally old crusty guys) seem to go on holiday or for a coffee or for a pee break.

Sometimes you can get these 'endless' (i.e. both long and without any evident conclusion) sentences a number of times on a single page. I think they're even proud of it. 'I didn't get where I am today by writing intelligibly!'
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artsipoppa
artsipoppa
Russian to English
+ ...
I know that feel bro Nov 26, 2013

It's possible to write complex English that is easily read, but ease of understanding needs to be your priority I think

 
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 07:34
English to Polish
+ ...
... Nov 27, 2013

sailingshoes wrote:

I think there's middle ground between the rubbish in/out view and the 'always render prefect English line'. If you consider the source text badly written, possibly due to the fact that it uses convoluted sentences and unclear terms, you could draw attention to this fact. After all, you aren't being paid to re-write rubbish.

Having said that, many translators accept bad source material out of necessity and hand back perfect English: if you want to do that, it's your call.


When that happens, I drop the idea of preserving the style because there's little to preserve when dudes are using simple language (if it weren't for the errors) and doing so incorrectly. Sometimes out of a number of possibilities I opt for something that'll be easy on non-native speakers, for example when the readers are German or otherwise from a country with a similar legal system that's also different from common-law systems, and they know English reasonably well but not necessarily the lawyerly lingo of it.

Otherwise, however, the role of a translator is not to simplify. I hate it when linguists start simplifying legalese like they've invented the wheel or discovered America, without having a clue as to what they are actually writing, in effect. Many a modern linguist will on that occasion display a lack of familiarity with more complex grammar and syntax or higher registers, possibly even of his own native language.

Sorry if I sound jaded.


 
Adam Warren
Adam Warren  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 07:34
Member (2005)
French to English
Top-down view as a first step Mar 18, 2014

I confess I don't translate German, but from the way you describe the source, I can imagine the difficulty.

Would it help to perform a top-down analysis in English, first in summary form, and then fleshing out the material in successive steps to arrive at a fully-blown rendering? In computing this is referred to as "stepwise" progression.

I hope this helps.

With kind regards,

Adam Warren,
IanDhu - 41189


 
Adam Warren
Adam Warren  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 07:34
Member (2005)
French to English
Translating a French court judgement Aug 10, 2016

I have a method for translating a French Court judgement.

While I agree that the legal technicalities should not be glossed into non-existence in the target document, the syntax, particularly in the "Considérants" part, the grounds, needs careful interpretation and segmentation, to preserve the line of argument while ensuring clarity and readability.

It would be otiose to go through the whole process here, but I can be contacted by e-mail for the details.

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I have a method for translating a French Court judgement.

While I agree that the legal technicalities should not be glossed into non-existence in the target document, the syntax, particularly in the "Considérants" part, the grounds, needs careful interpretation and segmentation, to preserve the line of argument while ensuring clarity and readability.

It would be otiose to go through the whole process here, but I can be contacted by e-mail for the details.

Suffice to say that, from a top-down view, as stated earlier, three main sections can be identified:

- the "Heading" material, identifying the court, the parties, counsel etc.
- the "Grounds": the oft-dreaded "considérants"
- the judgement proper, for which the French term is "le Dispositif".

The heading material obviously should be correctly and completely rendered, but to save time, any complexities can be addressed after the "considérants," and the judgement part.

Where the French text says "La Cour", this begins a long sentence.

The considérants should at this point be prefaced by a single occurrence of:

"WHEREAS:"

with no further use of that word.

Each "considérant que" introduces a new clause, and may be followed by "et que", and expressions such as "et que, de surcroît...". Where the court's reasoning allows, the material in this section may judiciously be broken up into separate sentences for clarity. This point can be discussed by e-mail to me, as I mentioned earlier, according to the individual case and drafting.

After the "considérants" comes: "Par ces motifs".

This, as in English court judgements, can be rendered:

"HELD THEREFORE:"

A time-honoured phrase is often to be found: "Déboute les parties quant au surplus": this can be rendered "All other claims of the parties are dismissed". In this connection, it is wise to use the impersonal form, since the English will not lend itself to the intricately linked "Caesar sentence" syntax of the French. Pay attention to person and number, as well as to referential accuracy, bearing in mind that gender is used in French more readily and easily than in English as a syntax marker (pronouns having gender in French, referring to neuter items in English).

This is a mere outline.

To avoid pitfalls, any term that looks familiar, but is used in an unfamiliar setting, should be researched ("droit de suite", "autorité de la chose jugée", "jurisprudence", and others), carefully eliminating "faux frères" and other sources of mistranslation.
I hope this will help.

With kind regards,

Adam Warren
(IanDhu - Translator 41189)
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Balasubramaniam L.
Balasubramaniam L.  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 12:04
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
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SITE LOCALIZER
Don't make it a simplified rendering Aug 11, 2016

This doesn't seem to be a marketing text to me in which simplicity or communicability is a virtue. This appears to be a legal/quasi-legal text written with the specific purpose of meeting some statutory requirement. It is quite possible that it is deliberately written in a vague and obtuse style to allow wiggle room to the agency. So my advice would be to make the translation equally vague and obtuse and full of legalese. English is second to none in its ability to produce bureaucratese, legales... See more
This doesn't seem to be a marketing text to me in which simplicity or communicability is a virtue. This appears to be a legal/quasi-legal text written with the specific purpose of meeting some statutory requirement. It is quite possible that it is deliberately written in a vague and obtuse style to allow wiggle room to the agency. So my advice would be to make the translation equally vague and obtuse and full of legalese. English is second to none in its ability to produce bureaucratese, legalese, officialese, jargon and other gobbledygook, make use of this ability.

Remember that a translator has to be true to the source not only in meaning, but also in style, structure and imagery. So don't rephrase or rewrite, unless you have a clear brief from your client to do this, in which case you will be doing a transcreation, and not a translation.
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
Mervyn Henderson (X)  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 07:34
Spanish to English
+ ...
Maybe it's deliberate Aug 11, 2016

Phoebe says "I'm having to read every sentence several times to understand what it's trying to say."

What if they are writing that way on purpose? There may be many occasions when they are counting on the end reader NOT sitting down to figure it all out - insurance policies, trade deals, contracts etc. - whereupon hopefully they sign up to something which, had it been simplified, they might not have signed up to at all. Not so much small print as longwinded print.

We ca
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Phoebe says "I'm having to read every sentence several times to understand what it's trying to say."

What if they are writing that way on purpose? There may be many occasions when they are counting on the end reader NOT sitting down to figure it all out - insurance policies, trade deals, contracts etc. - whereupon hopefully they sign up to something which, had it been simplified, they might not have signed up to at all. Not so much small print as longwinded print.

We can easily be manipulated by language. A lawyer might ask a witness: Is it not true to say that you are not, in fact, non-resident in this country?

A tough question, if the only answer you can give is Yes or No. And if you get it wrong, the implication is that if you lie about your residency status, you'll lie about anything.

A company might say on its registration form:
Please refrain from checking the box below if you are not unwilling to refuse to receive publicity from our company.

Er ...
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