How is termbase building paid?
Thread poster: Katia Vasconcelos
Katia Vasconcelos
Katia Vasconcelos  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 19:04
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Feb 1, 2017

A client asked to translate a new project and to build a Termbase and send him/her; my question is: do I have to be paid for this extra task? Or we have to send a Termbase we build to client for free if he/her ask?

 
Kevin Fulton
Kevin Fulton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:04
German to English
Terminology work billed separately Feb 1, 2017

I assume you're using a CAT tool. You can send the client the translation memory for the project and let the client extract the terminology him/herself.

If the client wants a separate terminology database, bill the client on an hourly basis for your time.


 
Jean Lachaud
Jean Lachaud  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:04
English to French
+ ...
You are free to charge... Feb 1, 2017

You - don't- have - to - do - anything - you - don't - like.

Free market, and all that sort of things.


 
MikeTrans
MikeTrans
Germany
Local time: 23:04
Italian to German
+ ...
Of course: not free of charge Feb 1, 2017

Hello Katia,

There are 2 very practical reasons why this service cannot be free of charge, and it's easy to oversee the first one:

a)
In order to build a Termbase you need special software (bilingual extraction software) for which you pay license fees. This charge (like the VAT for example) has to be delivered to the end client for a proportional part, depending on the license price and how often and for how many clients you do such a work.

b)
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Hello Katia,

There are 2 very practical reasons why this service cannot be free of charge, and it's easy to oversee the first one:

a)
In order to build a Termbase you need special software (bilingual extraction software) for which you pay license fees. This charge (like the VAT for example) has to be delivered to the end client for a proportional part, depending on the license price and how often and for how many clients you do such a work.

b)
It's a service like any other service that requires working time. So I would do it on a hourly rate basis that corrisponds to my translation rate.

Point b) is still valid if your client sends you the software in which you could 'build' a termbase.

Greetings,
Mike
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Katia Vasconcelos
Katia Vasconcelos  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 19:04
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Termbase Feb 1, 2017

Dear Mike Trans:

Thank you.
I agree with you.


 
Katia Vasconcelos
Katia Vasconcelos  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 19:04
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Termbase Feb 1, 2017

Thank you, JL10
Short and perfect answer.


 
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:04
French to English
Professional service Feb 2, 2017

You are being asked to provide a service which includes two specific items : translation and termbase. Each service is to be paid for.
(When you have your car repaired, you pay for the parts that need to be replaced and the time taken to replace them. Two separate items, each is paid for).

[Edited at 2017-02-02 11:05 GMT]


 
Mirko Mainardi
Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 23:04
Member
English to Italian
CAT tool Feb 2, 2017

Katia V. wrote:

A client asked to translate a new project and to build a Termbase and send him/her; my question is: do I have to be paid for this extra task? Or we have to send a Termbase we build to client for free if he/her ask?


Are you going to use a CAT tool to translate? If that is the case, then (IMO) the process of building a glossary can be seamlessly integrated into the translation process, without using additional software, as Mike was saying. This shouldn't require too much extra time, if the client doesn't have specific requirements or expectations for the glossary (like doing it before starting the translation or adding definitions and other infos/properties/fields about the terms, for instance).

It would have been quite different if the project consisted exclusively in glossary building (for the project), as that usually is a more time consuming task (compared to translation).

As for charging for it, yes, that's up to you, as others have said, but if this is a good client and creating this glossary won't take you much time (as I was saying above), then you might even consider doing it for "free" or for a nominal fee (also considering the size of said glossary).


 
Gabriele Demuth
Gabriele Demuth  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:04
English to German
Why not charge? Feb 2, 2017

I don't think the OP asked about special favours for good clients.

Yes, it can be done along with the translation, but it requires extra thought and time. The client receives an additional product, so why hand that over for free - that doesn't seem to be very good business sense to me.

I always feel that translators are selling themselves short... on the other hand, there are the business savvy agencies who take advantage of that.



[Edited at 2017-0
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I don't think the OP asked about special favours for good clients.

Yes, it can be done along with the translation, but it requires extra thought and time. The client receives an additional product, so why hand that over for free - that doesn't seem to be very good business sense to me.

I always feel that translators are selling themselves short... on the other hand, there are the business savvy agencies who take advantage of that.



[Edited at 2017-02-02 13:54 GMT]
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Mirko Mainardi
Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 23:04
Member
English to Italian
Extra time Feb 2, 2017

Gabriele Demuth wrote:

I don't think the OP asked about special favours for good clients.
...
The client receives an additional product, so why hand that over for free - that doesn't seem to be very good business sense to me.


No, she asked about doing a translation and creating a glossary, and I was just expressing my opinion about that... Much depends on the context and the specific situation (as always). Speaking of "business sense", doing "favors" to clients is also marketing, Gabriele, and IMO it doesn't mean you're "selling yourself short", if done within reason and under the right circumstances.

Just to make an example, if a client asks you to highlight some issues you find in the source, you may do it, refuse, or ask for additional compensation. That's entirely up to you, obviously. Sometimes I do that even if the client didn't ask at all, as a courtesy, and I generally expect the client to take notice and appreciate it as a sign of attention to detail and a gesture of goodwill...

Yes, it can be done along with the translation, but it requires extra thought and time.


Not really, if what you do is just add recurring terms, as if you were doing it for yourself. In MemoQ, for instance, all you have to do is highlight two terms and press CTRL+Q... As I clearly wrote, doing it for free (or for a nominal fee) might make sense (business-wise) if it doesn't take(/cost) you much time.


As a side note, a negative aspect about creating and delivering a glossary to a client is that they might become less reliant on your services, as a good glossary could make you more easily replaceable as a translator (but the same could be said about TMs...).


 
MikeTrans
MikeTrans
Germany
Local time: 23:04
Italian to German
+ ...
A CAT tool is a good argument for accepting a job to build a termbase; but a job gets paid for Feb 2, 2017

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

Are you going to use a CAT tool to translate? If that is the case, then (IMO) the process of building a glossary can be seamlessly integrated into the translation process, without using additional software, as Mike was saying. This shouldn't require too much extra time, if the client doesn't have specific requirements or expectations for the glossary (like doing it before starting the translation or adding definitions and other infos/properties/fields about the terms, for instance).

It would have been quite different if the project consisted exclusively in glossary building (for the project), as that usually is a more time consuming task (compared to translation).

As for charging for it, yes, that's up to you, as others have said, but if this is a good client and creating this glossary won't take you much time (as I was saying above), then you might even consider doing it for "free" or for a nominal fee (also considering the size of said glossary).


If you are using a CAT tool you are essentially saying that you are able to work more efficiently and in most cases you are able to deliver earlier. But still I think that the service for providing a meaningful bilingual glossary cannot be free of charge. But it would clearly be less expensive than doing such a glossary from scratch: It would take considerably less time to compile it. However, some translators voice-over their translations instead of typing the text in; saving terms in the CAT tool for a glossary would then take more time for them to deliver the work, so here too, this cannot be totally free of charge.

Mike


 
Mirko Mainardi
Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 23:04
Member
English to Italian
Time taken Feb 3, 2017

MikeTrans wrote:

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

Are you going to use a CAT tool to translate? If that is the case, then (IMO) the process of building a glossary can be seamlessly integrated into the translation process, without using additional software, as Mike was saying. This shouldn't require too much extra time, if the client doesn't have specific requirements or expectations for the glossary (like doing it before starting the translation or adding definitions and other infos/properties/fields about the terms, for instance).

It would have been quite different if the project consisted exclusively in glossary building (for the project), as that usually is a more time consuming task (compared to translation).

As for charging for it, yes, that's up to you, as others have said, but if this is a good client and creating this glossary won't take you much time (as I was saying above), then you might even consider doing it for "free" or for a nominal fee (also considering the size of said glossary).


If you are using a CAT tool you are essentially saying that you are able to work more efficiently and in most cases you are able to deliver earlier. But still I think that the service for providing a meaningful bilingual glossary cannot be free of charge. But it would clearly be less expensive than doing such a glossary from scratch: It would take considerably less time to compile it. However, some translators voice-over their translations instead of typing the text in; saving terms in the CAT tool for a glossary would then take more time for them to deliver the work, so here too, this cannot be totally free of charge.


I'd say that the case of using a dictation software is a bit beside the point here, but still, it falls under the "if creating this glossary won't take you much time" I mentioned above.

As for "A CAT tool is a good argument for accepting a job to build a termbase; but a job gets paid for". Of course, but still, the point I was making is that here we're talking about a project involving translation+glossary, so, once again, all I was saying is that, if building this glossary will just be an accessory task not requiring much time, then it could even be done for free (for a good client).

In other words, if you think you'll be spending X hours translating and 1/2X hours building the glossary, and/or you couldn't care less about the client, this is not the case... but, conversely, if you're going to spend 24 hours translating and 10 minutes adding some terms to a glossary, then you might even consider not charging for it...

To the OP, I think you changed the title of your thread? To answer that question ("How is termbase building paid?"), I'd say "By the hour".

BTW, I'm sure you can find several threads about that here on ProZ, as, for instance:
http://www.proz.com/forum/translation_theory_and_practice/102631-glossary_terms_translation_rates.html
http://www.proz.com/forum/business_issues/182101-charging_for_glossary_creation_as_part_of_proofreading_job.html

[Edited at 2017-02-03 11:32 GMT]


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:04
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
I agree with your point of "each service is to be paid for" Feb 3, 2017

Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:

You are being asked to provide a service which includes two specific items : translation and termbase. Each service is to be paid for.
(When you have your car repaired, you pay for the parts that need to be replaced and the time taken to replace them. Two separate items, each is paid for).

[Edited at 2017-02-02 11:05 GMT]


But I found it hard to apply your analogy of parts and labor for car repair to the OP's case. Did you mean a term base can be compared to a car part?


 
Christine Andersen
Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 23:04
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
How complete does the glossary have to be? Feb 3, 2017

If you are only collecting terms that come in the actual translation, and can pick them up as you go with a CAT, then you should probably not charge much.

However, if you are expected to complete the termbase in any way afterwards - adding context notes, source, etc. or if you are expected to find supplementary terms to make complete sets of terms, then you should charge by the hour.

By supplementary terms I mean for instance, if you mention safety catches for windows i
... See more
If you are only collecting terms that come in the actual translation, and can pick them up as you go with a CAT, then you should probably not charge much.

However, if you are expected to complete the termbase in any way afterwards - adding context notes, source, etc. or if you are expected to find supplementary terms to make complete sets of terms, then you should charge by the hour.

By supplementary terms I mean for instance, if you mention safety catches for windows in the translation, you might be asked to add windows, frames, panes, alternative types of safety catch... or whatever it might be to make the glossary more useful later on.

That kind of thing can take a lot of time... Even if you find terms relatively easily in a dictionary, you should probably acknowledge the source dictionary in a note.

If you do that kind of thing, agree precisely with the client what they want! If they simply do not have the money to pay you for unlimited hours, agree on how much time they can pay for, and how to make the best use of it!

That will save a lot of wrangling later, and it is NOT unprofessional to ask questions to clarify an issue like that. It is all too easy as a beginner to try to sound confident and then take on far more than you can cope with. You may also lose a potentially good client if you present them after the event with a bill that they have no chance of paying.
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MikeTrans
MikeTrans
Germany
Local time: 23:04
Italian to German
+ ...
Special cases to consider: If you work for an agency on a regular basis... Feb 3, 2017

What I said in my post above is not written in marble and you must find your own business politics in many cases.
If a good client of yours in an agency then you will have specific agreements on working procedures. Generally, these points must be considered by the translator:
He must know what he would charge for a translation that will be directly usable by the end client (ready to publish, ready for printing). Then, working for an agency, he must know how much work the agency will
... See more
What I said in my post above is not written in marble and you must find your own business politics in many cases.
If a good client of yours in an agency then you will have specific agreements on working procedures. Generally, these points must be considered by the translator:
He must know what he would charge for a translation that will be directly usable by the end client (ready to publish, ready for printing). Then, working for an agency, he must know how much work the agency will do to transform his delivered work to comply for the above. This is to say that the more work the agency is willing to do on my delivered work (extensive proofreading with third-parties, formatting work etc.), the more I can offer advantageous translation rates for that agency. Also if the agency often provides me with glossaries or refenrece material, I will be very hard-stretched to charge for the returning of my project glossary, isn't it?
Now the question is: does this include the delivery of an extensive database, translation memory or glossary, for the specific project you are working on, in other words: Should you deliver these databases for free? You have to consider your agreement with the agency, to what extend your translation rate includes such special works etc. For example, your agreement with the agency could be that you charge separately for the time to convert difficult source formats like a PDF document into an editable format; if the PDF is of good quality, you may charge nothing; if it's a scanned PDF where you have to use an OCR software, you would charge a minimum fee or a fee that relates to the time taken for convertion. In the case of a termbase delivery *that clearly relates to the current project* I may also not charge anything simply because the time taken to compile may only be neglectable (also because I compile it for my own usage as well and only have to export it to deliver).
But if such database deliveries are leaving the limits of the current translation project, I will have to consider them as a separate job and charge according to my working time; as a practical matter, in my case this would probably be my minimum price for starting a project.
But all this is business politics, you will have to decide case-by-case what does apply according to YOUR own business practises.

Mike

[Edited at 2017-02-03 16:07 GMT]
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