Saeed Najmi Feb 24, 2021:

Thanks for your advice Fuad. Just so you know, this is not getting to me, it is just part of being professional. I would be glad to get their feedback as there might be something for me to learn there, but if it never comes, I'll still have learned something. Thanks for your input.

Fuad Yahya Feb 24, 2021:

Yes, Saeed, but . . . . . . you have made your point already, and it is time to put it to sleep. Don't let things get to you this way. It is not healthy for you or for the ProZ environment. Let go. It is part of the professional code.

Saeed Najmi Feb 24, 2021:

Not for me as two things are still bugging me: 1. The writer didn't say شتائم أو شتيمة nor did he say "عبارات السب أو الشتم . Two: how would the author and the translstors who support her suggestion tranlate the entire chunk using the items "insults" and "swear words''.

Fuad Yahya Feb 24, 2021:

I get your point, but . . . . . . that issue has been sufficiently addressed.

Saeed Najmi Feb 24, 2021:

So be it then though, in this case, I am tempted by "potty mouth" lol. Leaving this apart, would your standpoint be the same concerning the proposed items that are not adjs if I may ask?

Fuad Yahya Feb 24, 2021:

Addressing the asker's needs You are on the right track, Saeed, but the term posted by the asker was الزعر, not اللسان الزعر. I felt safe in assuming that once the adjective was fully explained (its original meaning as well as its extended connotations), the asker would be able to use her creativity to formulate her translation of the whole phrase on her own. As a smart, experienced translator, she knows that اللسان here does not refer to a physical object, but to verbal content and verbal conduct. She is free to translate it to "tongue," "mouth," "words," etc. As you observed, each one of those nouns would call for a suitable, idiomatic modifier. As it happens, "foul" and "filthy" both collate well with "tongue," "mouth," "language," and "words." Here in the States, you often hear people say things like, "shut your foul mouth," or "He was my friend, but I couldn't stand his filthy tongue." The asker, I believe, is English-speaking, so she should be able to judge appropriately.

Saeed Najmi Feb 24, 2021:

@Fuad Yahya
Indeed, neither ''wicked'' nor ''foul'' do convey the right meaning the context. But the thing is there is the issue of ''feasibility''/''appropriacy''/''authenticity''. Certain adjectives collocate with certain nouns but not with others. To cut a long story short, my best choice would be ''filthy'', but we cannot talk of ''filthy mouth'' or ''filthy tongue''. It usually collocates with ''language''.

Saeed Najmi Feb 24, 2021:

We both agree there then. We'll have to wait for feedback from translators who opted for nouns/noun phrases instead of adjs.

Fuad Yahya Feb 24, 2021:

Adjective Thank you, Saeed, for explaining your misgivings. I agree with you that an answerer should endeavor to provide a translation that parallels the source term's part of speech so that it would structurally, not just semantically, fit the context. In this context, الزفر modifies لسانه. As such, it is an adjective (نعت).

Saeed Najmi Feb 24, 2021:

Thanks Fuad Yahya, I was referring to the suggested translations and not to the term ''زفر''which we have here with the same meaning as well. Some of the English suggested translations are a different grammatical class than the term posted for translation and I wonder how their authors can blend them in the source sentence.

Fuad Yahya Feb 24, 2021:

Colloquialism Dear Saeed: the reason you cannot find a dictionary entry for this term is that it is borrowed from colloquial use. You will find this expression mostly used in the Gulf region and in Iraq, but also in some East Mediterranean regions, mostly in reference to the smell of fish when unpleasantly perceived. Two versions exist: زعر and زفر. The nominal forms are زعورة and زفورة.

Saeed Najmi Feb 24, 2021:

Hi guys, can't find dictionary entries for the target word with your suggestions. Could anyone possibly provide a lead? In the meantime, I will post my own translation for your assessment and opinions. Thanks.