Jan 23, 2020 05:02
4 yrs ago
12 viewers *
French term
Sema
vitesse retenue
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
speed excess
It's about a speeding ticket. The actual speed is 163 km/h, but the police write 153 on the ticket
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +3 | speed retained |
Tony M
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| 4 +2 | speed for penalty purposes |
philgoddard
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| 4 | speed cited |
B D Finch
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| 3 | marginal speed |
SafeTex
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| 3 -2 | tolerance; margin of error |
mrrafe
|
Change log
Jan 21, 2020 20:07: Andrea Capuselli changed "Vetting" from "Needs Vetting" to "Vet OK"
Jan 23, 2020 05:02: Karen Zaragoza changed "Kudoz queue" from "In queue" to "Public"
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:
Non-PRO (2): Tony M, GILLES MEUNIER
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Proposed translations
+3
3 hrs
Selected
speed retained
I think this is the safest way of expressing this, albeit very literally.
There will be 'vitesse constatée / mesurée / etc.' — which is the speed shown on their radar; and then there will be this 'speed retained for the purposes of this offence', which is the measured speeed minus the applicable margin of error — so it is always lower. Only if this 'speed retained' is still over the limit will the driver be punished.
We can sometimes say 'adopted' for 'retenu', but I think in this abbreviated context, this wouldn't be helpful, unless entering into a longer explanation.
There will be 'vitesse constatée / mesurée / etc.' — which is the speed shown on their radar; and then there will be this 'speed retained for the purposes of this offence', which is the measured speeed minus the applicable margin of error — so it is always lower. Only if this 'speed retained' is still over the limit will the driver be punished.
We can sometimes say 'adopted' for 'retenu', but I think in this abbreviated context, this wouldn't be helpful, unless entering into a longer explanation.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
-2
30 mins
tolerance; margin of error
Have never seen this system so I don't know what it would be called in English. The police impute the lower speed as a conservative estimate because they don't want to argue with the defendant about the accuracy of the higher, observed speed recorded. The retenue gives the defendant the benefit of the doubt. The flash is part of the photography. https://www.legipermis.com/blog/2015/06/25/radar-exces-de-vi...
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Note added at 1 hr (2020-01-23 06:43:10 GMT)
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Thanks Phil but my problem was, they calculate a term that purports to be reducible to two words. Can't imagine any, so I decided they really must mean "allowance for margin of error" but are saying it in a casual, abbreviated way to fit it onto the ticket. If the 153 is "retenue," it would be amusing to see how they characterize the 163. Actuelle? Apparente?Bogus?
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Note added at 1 hr (2020-01-23 06:43:10 GMT)
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Thanks Phil but my problem was, they calculate a term that purports to be reducible to two words. Can't imagine any, so I decided they really must mean "allowance for margin of error" but are saying it in a casual, abbreviated way to fit it onto the ticket. If the 153 is "retenue," it would be amusing to see how they characterize the 163. Actuelle? Apparente?Bogus?
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
philgoddard
: Your reference is very helpful, but the tolerance/margin of error here is 10 km/h.
33 mins
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| disagree |
Tony M
: This is not the tolerance or margin: it is the resulting speed after that has been taken into account. It is certainly not safe to imagine that "they really must mean"!!
2 hrs
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| disagree |
Daryo
: tolerance and margin of error are not the same + the term is about what is left after applying the tolerance, NOT the margin of tolerance itself.
10 hrs
|
5 hrs
speed cited
https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=879776
"... traveling at the speed cited, but the officer fails to note -- even when requested ..."
Speed Enforcement Program Guidelines - State of Michigan
https://www.michigan.gov/
PDF
describe well-defined crash characteristics such as time of day and weather, it is ... The difference between the cited speed and the speed limit can provide a.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2020-01-23 11:10:58 GMT)
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https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/how-is-the--actual-speed-...
"[Q] How is [sic] the "actual speed" written on the ticket opposed to the "cited speed" affect you?
I was cited for going 50 in a 45 mph zone but the officer wrote down 63 as my actual speed. Why is that? Does this affect how many points I get? Or how my insurance premium will rise? Or is it just notes for him?
...
"[A] The officer gave you a break on the ticket. You were cited for for speeding 1-10 mph over the speed limit. Based on your actual speed, you could have been cited for speeding 10-20 mph over the speed limit. A charge that has a higher fine and carries more points. The prosecuting attorney could amend the charge to the 10-20 mph over, but it is not likely."
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Note added at 6 hrs (2020-01-23 11:14:11 GMT)
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Detecting racial bias in speed discounting: Evidence from ...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/
by N Anbarci - 2014 - Cited by 20 - Related articles
We find that police officers often discount the cited speed and lower the fine. ... speed on their citation than the actual speed that they observe the vehicle doing.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2020-01-23 11:36:14 GMT)
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As an aside, one reason for the police citing a lower speed is to enable them to threaten to increase the cited speed if the driver appeals, thus increasing the penalty. This is a way of discouraging appeals.
"... traveling at the speed cited, but the officer fails to note -- even when requested ..."
Speed Enforcement Program Guidelines - State of Michigan
https://www.michigan.gov/
describe well-defined crash characteristics such as time of day and weather, it is ... The difference between the cited speed and the speed limit can provide a.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2020-01-23 11:10:58 GMT)
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https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/how-is-the--actual-speed-...
"[Q] How is [sic] the "actual speed" written on the ticket opposed to the "cited speed" affect you?
I was cited for going 50 in a 45 mph zone but the officer wrote down 63 as my actual speed. Why is that? Does this affect how many points I get? Or how my insurance premium will rise? Or is it just notes for him?
...
"[A] The officer gave you a break on the ticket. You were cited for for speeding 1-10 mph over the speed limit. Based on your actual speed, you could have been cited for speeding 10-20 mph over the speed limit. A charge that has a higher fine and carries more points. The prosecuting attorney could amend the charge to the 10-20 mph over, but it is not likely."
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Note added at 6 hrs (2020-01-23 11:14:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Detecting racial bias in speed discounting: Evidence from ...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/
by N Anbarci - 2014 - Cited by 20 - Related articles
We find that police officers often discount the cited speed and lower the fine. ... speed on their citation than the actual speed that they observe the vehicle doing.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2020-01-23 11:36:14 GMT)
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As an aside, one reason for the police citing a lower speed is to enable them to threaten to increase the cited speed if the driver appeals, thus increasing the penalty. This is a way of discouraging appeals.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: In both your examples, 'cited' doesn't exactly equate to the 'retenue' here. / yes, but 'citation' here is a particularly US usage — do we use it in GB? / I've seen 'retained' used in other contexts than speed...
7 mins
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Does the example I have just added help? I think the point is that this speed "retenue" is what is used and I don't think "retained" works here in English.// Agree "citation" is EN-US, but think "cited" is OK. Can you show examples for "retained"?
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| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: "cited" suggests quoting something (e.g. what another policeman said or wrote). Whilst you clearly understand what is going on I think it's the wrong word
4 hrs
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OK, you're more of a specialist with this sort of thing than me, so I accept your judgement ML.
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+2
12 hrs
philgoddard
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
286
speed for penalty purposes
I think this is tricky, and definitely a pro question. I also think Allegro's suggestion of "imputed" is on the right lines.
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Note added at 12 hrs (2020-01-23 17:14:28 GMT)
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His "discounted" is also good.
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Note added at 12 hrs (2020-01-23 17:14:28 GMT)
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His "discounted" is also good.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
GILLES MEUNIER
11 hrs
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| agree |
AllegroTrans
: This works well and avoids any doubt
18 hrs
|
| neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: I think another word is needed with "speed"
19 hrs
|
20 hrs
marginal speed
As this system is well know in France but not in the UK, it is hard to get the idea over with just a couple of words. If the asker does not like "retained speed", how about this?
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: But it isn't "marginal", a loaded word which could mean almost anything
9 hrs
|
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Hello. I thought this might work in that "marginal" can mean "close to lower limit" but I duly note that you don't like it
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