https://www.proz.com/kudoz/russian-to-english/religion/5652271-%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%8B%D1%81%D0%BB%D1%8F%D1%89%D0%B8%D1%85.html
Sep 8, 2014 14:39
9 yrs ago
Russian term

инокомыслящих

Russian to English Art/Literary Religion
"Это извращение привело к появлению джихада, крестовых походов, инквизиции, уничтожению инокомыслящих. Но все же остались люди, хранящие истинные знания"

Расскажите, пожалуйста, как понимать "инокомыслящих" по английски.

Discussion

Maria Fokin Sep 11, 2014:
@ Jill Now, your last sentence really does give a valid reason for your disagree with my answer and one for Christiano to take into consideration. Thank you for clearing that up.
The Misha Sep 11, 2014:
I am afraid you are in a wrong forum with this. This is about translating a specific term, not about sharing your views on the nature of religious beliefs, which, are just that, opinions. Unrelated opinions. I say you'd do well keeping them to yourself and using a more language-related rationale to justify your disagrees. Or, in the absence of any, abstain from those altogether.
Jill Conklin Achkasova Sep 11, 2014:
true believers any "true believer" in my mind knows that God requires his followers to love and accept one another, regardless of creed (apart from Satanist, vodoo and other black magic religions). Any Christian who hates another person and wishes his extermination has nothing to do with Christ or real Christianity; any Muslim who hates another person has nothing to do with Allah or true Islam. Hence "religious" conflicts end up being primarily political in nature: hatred of another group simply because they are different from "us" and call themselves by a different name. I never meant to offend anyone, just wanted to provide an explanation for my vote. Sorry it was misunderstood. I agree this has become a bit irrelevant. I guess my point was that a person who is инакомыслящий may not have enough of a following to be considered a religious minority - he may just be a muslim who thinks it is wrong to kill Christians...
Maria Fokin Sep 10, 2014:
@ Jill I am fully aware of what superficial means. If you say "superficial adherence to a group", it means the person in question is an adherent strictly in name and not a true believer. As for what you actually meant, if you were, let's say, a Quaker, it would be difficult to "feel unity" with the broader Christian faith while being persecuted by the latter (and here, we are talking about groups that are being not only persecuted, but exterminated). In either case, I don't see how this is relevant to the answer provided by me (regardless of one's opinion about its validity in this particular context).
Jill Conklin Achkasova Sep 9, 2014:
2 comments since you can't reply to a comment in the comment box for an answer: No offense intended: "superficial" just means that adherence to a group and belief are not necessarily related - you may consider yourself muslim, but have non-standard muslim beliefs, or you may belong to a minority group but feel unity with muslims or Christians, etc.

Regarding the correct term - I understand the target language is actually Portuguese, we are just helping the asker understand the term so he can better portray it in Portuguese. Hence the literal translation.
Max Deryagin Sep 9, 2014:
@ Jill Jill, please read the comment below. It applies to you the same way it applies to Donald.
Maria Fokin Sep 9, 2014:
@ Donald yes, if you are going to translate literally, it means dissident. However, that doesn't fit into all contexts. Here we are talking about religious persecution and in my experience dissident is usually used in political contexts. I could be wrong of course.
Donald Jacobson Sep 9, 2014:
Lilian is right: инакомыслящий человек

(inakomyslâŝij čelovek)

n. dissentient, one who opposes or disagrees
Alexandra Schneeuhr Sep 8, 2014:
I'd probably translate the expression "уничтожение инакомыслящих" rather than just the stand-alone "инакомыслящих" here, so that to continue the list: "...this eventually led to/ resulted in jihad, Crusades, Holy Inquisition and other manifestations of witch-hunting"(?). Though it all depends on the context, as always :)
P.L.F. Persio Sep 8, 2014:
Not only, but... I now think that dissidents, as suggested by AKhram, could quite fit the bill here.
Cristiano, you know the whole context better than us, see what works better in your text, and let us know.
Max Deryagin Sep 8, 2014:
There is a problem here The words "infidel" and "heretic" mean more or less the same thing, but the former is more often used in regard to Islam, whereas the latter is more often used in regards to Christianity. The problem is, you have both Jihad and crusades/inquisition in the same sentence.

Proposed translations

+2
3 mins
Selected

infidel

In this context "инакомыслящий" means "infidel", a person of another religion (or of no religion).

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Note added at 4 mins (2014-09-08 14:44:12 GMT)
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уничтожение инакомыслящих = infidel-killing
Note from asker:
Спасибо, друг!
Peer comment(s):

agree P.L.F. Persio : see: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infidel
2 mins
agree Jack Doughty
1 hr
agree Oleksiy Markunin
3 hrs
disagree Jill Conklin Achkasova : Infidel is a strictly islamic term, whereas the context seems to refer to religious persecution in general - all people who think differently than the given group that is trying to percecute
18 hrs
By no means "infidel" is a strictly islamic term, as can be found on the term's Wiki article. That said, I agree with the idea that it is commonly (and more often) used in regard to Islam.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
5 mins

"heretics"

...
Peer comment(s):

agree Max Deryagin : I like your answer better :)
1 min
Thank you
disagree Jill Conklin Achkasova : Again, this is generally a Christian term, not used in the context of religion in general
18 hrs
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44 mins

religious minorities

Just an idea. It's general enough not to be associated with either Islam or Christianity.
Note from asker:
I don't want to be harsh, Lilian, but since you disagree, I think that it would be a good idea to give a reason for that.
Peer comment(s):

agree The Misha : yes
10 hrs
thanks :-)
disagree Jill Conklin Achkasova : The stress here is that people think differently, not necessarily related to superficial adherence to a particular group
17 hrs
Their thought process is not different, the ideas they hold are. Superficial? That is a very offensive way to describe the believes of a member of a religious minority.
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1 hr

dissidents

-
Peer comment(s):

neutral LilianNekipelov : This si closer.
6 hrs
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2 hrs

non-believers or unbelievers

This would obviate the infidel/heretics problem
Peer comment(s):

agree Max Deryagin : Even though the words "unbeliever" and "non-believer" can be used to refer to a person of another faith, they are normally understood to mean "atheist". UPD: Then your version is sound :)
24 mins
Atheist in English is not the same as unbeliever. To a Christian, a Muslim is an unbeliever and vice versa. I am Christian and my wife is a pastor and agrees
disagree Jill Conklin Achkasova : the actual meaning of the target word is someone who thinks differently. This has a slightly different nuance
16 hrs
Jill, I agree. I've been thinking that dissentient may come closer
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+3
7 hrs

people who thought differently, people with unconventional views

Either one.
Peer comment(s):

agree Donald Jacobson : I believe you are correct, German has a similar term, Die Andersdenkenden
2 hrs
agree Jill Conklin Achkasova : I would not use "unconventional" but different. Christian views are perfectly conventional, just not to Muslims.
11 hrs
agree Natalia Volkova
2 days 22 hrs
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11 hrs

nonconformists

Another possible option here, or so I believe.
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