| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] > | Off topic: Beginner’s luck ??? Thread poster: Juliano Martins
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Peter Manda (X)
Local time: 14:01
German to English
+ ...
| professional hobby | Jul 29, 2008 |
Johannes Irmer wrote:
According to your profile, you've done translations on various subjects, some of them rather obscure (what in the world is Fuzziology?). These translations must have been extremely specialized and must have required lots and lots of research.
I don't get it. He says he's a computer scientist; so obviously he would know what "fuzziology" is; and why would he need to do research in something that he's an expert in. If he's translating into Protuguese, then he's translating not only into the language, but also into the language that he uses daily.
I'm not discounting the fact that he should take courses and get certifications; but I think he has something to stand on. And besides ... I think it was Carnegie (and Rockefeller, and many others) who have said (many times) that coming to work for them was like going to play a game. That is, success often correlates to work being a hobby, a game, and somewhat a joy.
Why destroy the joy of it in the name of professionalism? I would think we would want to welcome people to our "profession" by saying, Yes, we're serious, but we love what we're doing ...
>shrugging shoulders< That all said, even though I view translating as my "hobby" - something I love doing - I also take it very seriously and understand that as a business I can only keep running if I continuously self-improve. And that's ultimately what we should be doing - inspire hope ...
| | | | Lia Fail (X) 
Spain
Local time: 20:01
Spanish to English
+ ...
Not only have you named the agency in an earlier post, now you are laying it a bit bare:
Juliano Martins wrote:
I admit that the translation agency had a security failure, since they didn’t ask me to send my curriculum or anything else. ... I just said that I was a Brazilian, available, and that I could speak French, thanks for the attention, good bye. They answered my quote in just a second. I didn’t even know how many words I could do.
Juliano, I think you are being very indiscreet, becuase this is a public forum, they are not here to give their point of view, and a lot of people would consider what you describe them as doing as unprofessional.
PS. I've just checked, and I think you have now edited out the name, but a fair few people saw it and know who you are referring to.
[Edited at 2008-07-29 19:35]
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It's awesome to see someone motivated like you are. I’m just an observer here but if you really wish to be a well-known translator, I think you should reconsider to offer translating from one foreiign language to another. Once you write English with a Portuguese syntax, you may be doing the same thing with French. Like some people said, eventually somebody will point your mistakes to your clients and your credit may fade away.
Try to combine your current job with you translation works. B... See more It's awesome to see someone motivated like you are. I’m just an observer here but if you really wish to be a well-known translator, I think you should reconsider to offer translating from one foreiign language to another. Once you write English with a Portuguese syntax, you may be doing the same thing with French. Like some people said, eventually somebody will point your mistakes to your clients and your credit may fade away.
Try to combine your current job with you translation works. But remember that after a long day working our translation potential decrease seriously.
Good luck. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Juliano Martins
Brazil
Local time: 15:01
Member (2008)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
"Fuzziology (Dimitrov, 2003; Dimitrov e Hodge, 2002) is the study of the fuzzyness of the human knowledge; it provides a rich theorical and methodological base to a better understanding and to deal with the fuzziness inherent to the individual knowledge about one’s self, society and nature."
My father is a Complexity Theory enthusiast, and he asked me to translate these articles about it. Fuzziology has to do with complexity. Actually, these were the easiest texts that I translate... See more "Fuzziology (Dimitrov, 2003; Dimitrov e Hodge, 2002) is the study of the fuzzyness of the human knowledge; it provides a rich theorical and methodological base to a better understanding and to deal with the fuzziness inherent to the individual knowledge about one’s self, society and nature."
My father is a Complexity Theory enthusiast, and he asked me to translate these articles about it. Fuzziology has to do with complexity. Actually, these were the easiest texts that I translated. The articles were written in simple language, not complex in any case. Some technical terms, but easy to find.
The translations that I performed here in ProZ in the last 40 days were in several fields, indeed: Law (PT>FR) (My first job), ‘Health Care and Chemicals’ (IT>EN) (My second job, only 3.5 K words), Mechanics (IT>EN) (lots of KudoZ questions for this one).
Regarding my profile, I didn’t work on it very well. For months it was just empty. I really have to update it. Sorry!
The samples are mostly from my blog that I used to write last year. And I wrote it originally in Portuguese, but then, just for fun, I decided to translate it into English and French. I have to proofread it, sure. By the way: http://sparkleofthoughts.blogspot.com/ (I only translated some of the first texts, the Portuguese version has more than 30 texts, I guess). Thanks for the interest in reading and for the advice about my samples.
I certainly agree that the job I have done until now may not be professional standard, after all, I’m not a professional translator, as everyone must already know.
And just for the record, I intend to study a lot, to do a translation course. I don't want to be a beginner for ever!You should take this in consideration concerning my potentialities.
Bests!
[Edited at 2008-07-29 19:45]
[Edited at 2008-07-29 19:51] ▲ Collapse
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Angela Arnone
Local time: 20:01
Member (2004)
Italian to English
+ ...
| I think I am absolutely and totally aghast | Jul 29, 2008 |
Simply gobsmacked.
Juliano Martins wrote:
(My first job), ‘Health Care and Chemicals’ (IT>EN) (My second job, only 3.5 K words), Mechanics (IT>EN) (lots of KudoZ questions for this one).
I'm sure the end client who got the ‘Health Care and Chemicals’ translation is reassured by that guarantee for the future.
Juliano Martins wrote:
And just for the record, I intend to study a lot, to do a translation course. I don't want to be a beginner for ever!You should take this in consideration concerning my potentialities.
[Edited at 2008-07-29 20:04]
| | | | | I'm with the "wet blankets".... | Jul 29, 2008 |
don't give up your day job.
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Any other Brazilians experiencing this?
Maybe Proz works better in Latin America recently.
| | | | | From someone in the know ... | Jul 29, 2008 |
Juliano Martins wrote:
- Concerning the doctor/lawyer/translator comparison, with all due respect, I think it’s a little exaggerated. I totally agree that to be a professional translator one needs to study a lot, much more than just learning a foreign language, etc. Besides, I think one must love it (And I do love it!). However, it is certainly much easier to a person who knows two languages to translate texts than to perform doctor/lawyer activities.
I'm assuming by 'performing doctor/lawyer activities' you mean 'practising medicine/law' (this is an example of what colleagues are referring to with the native language issue).
Well I can't speak for doctors or other medical professionals, but I can certainly speak as a lawyer.
The comparison is not exaggerated. In a nutshell, it boils down to this: passion for something will only get you so far, natural talent, aptitude, proper training, commitment to further professional education, business acumen, knowing your own limitations, and dedication helped on by a healthy dose of luck is the minimum of what you still need to make it in any profession.
I personally don't find translation easier than law or vice versa. I am properly trained and fortunate to have the ability to do both successfully.
You've had your lucky break, you seem to have the passion. The rest is down to you. On the business acumen front though, allow me to be frank: a lot more discretion about your client(s) and common sense is certainly needed - don't be surprised if some translators actually contact Txxxxxxxxx and refer them to this thread. I sincerely hope it doesn't happen because that could have very serious repercussions for you. As a translator, you have a duty of confidentiality towards your clients, so please be more careful in future. Sometimes the less said the better!
[Edited at 2008-07-29 23:25]
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Well, it certainly got people talking, did it?
Nothing is impossible and it certainly makes interesting reading on a late summer night.
But - come on guys! Get real!
Oh your daddy’s rich and your ma is good lookin’ ...
| | | | Angela Arnone
Local time: 20:01
Member (2004)
Italian to English
+ ...
| Which guys have to get real? | Jul 29, 2008 |
The wet blankets or the dry blankets?
Angela
anjoboira wrote:
Well, it certainly got people talking, did it?
Nothing is impossible and it certainly makes interesting reading on a late summer night.
But - come on guys! Get real!
Oh your daddy’s rich and your ma is good lookin’ ...
| | | | | aïe aïe aïe ! | Jul 29, 2008 |
Juliano Martins wrote: The samples are mostly from my blog that I used to write last year. And I wrote it originally in Portuguese, but then, just for fun, I decided to translate it into English and French. I have to proofread it, sure. By the way: http://sparkleofthoughts.blogspot.com/ (I only translated some of the first texts, the Portuguese version has more than 30 texts, I guess). Thanks for the interest in reading and for the advice about my samples.
Dear Juliano,
First, I would like to congratulate you for being so honest about yourself ; I have been following this thread from the beginning and find it very interesting. Like others, I am not a native English speaker and I know that my English is not that good (I only translate from English to French, by the way), so please forgive me if I sound harsh.
At the beginning, I was really impressed by all what you described, your translation skills, your language skills, the amount of work you have already accomplished in such a short time. I was almost ready to think that maybe some people are really skilled enough to be able to translate from a foreign language to another.
But now that I have visited your blog and read one of your French translation (Étincelles de pensées), I am...speechless. I am sorry to tell you that this translation is full of mistakes, not minor mistakes but the kind of mistakes that make you think that it is a Google translation...Ok, I know, it was one year ago, but I doubt that one year after you have reached a "professional" quality.
Therefore I agree with others, keep focused on your native language, or else you will not be taken seriously.
Stéphanie
| | | | awilliams
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:01
Italian to English
+ ...
| Good/bad/ugly 2 | Jul 29, 2008 |
Peter Manda wrote:
Why destroy the joy of it in the name of professionalism? I would think we would want to welcome people to our "profession" by saying, Yes, we're serious, but we love what we're doing ...
I resent the implication here that acting "professionally" equals taking the fun out of translation or taking the joy out of a new translator's passion for languages. I see absolutely no reason why a translator cannot have a fun, fulfilling and challenging career while still sticking to basic rules like those cited by Kim above, in the interests of personal credibility and decent translations. Clearly, passion and drive for language learning is a huge asset. The promise of "studying a lot" and "doing translation courses" may be fantastic for a couple of key language combinations but it will never turn a non-native into a native--simple as. I'm finding (increasingly?) though that some people new to the profession seem to think that assuming a new near-native or native language through sheer determination and hard study is a possibility. Not so.
So many times I see people sitting on the fence about this issue. Perhaps if some translators wound their necks in and took heed we wouldn't have so many poor-quality translations floating around. Sticking to your own language doesn't mean boring, it doesn't mean zero fun and it doesn't mean "destroying the joy". It means being professional and ethical. What's more, we're not talking about voluntary work/private blogs/translating things for fun here--this is a paid, professional service.
This I don't understand:
Juliano Martins wrote:
"The translations that I performed here in ProZ.com in the last 40 days were in several fields, indeed: Law (PT>FR) (My first job), ‘Health Care and Chemicals’ (IT>EN) (My second job, only 3.5 K words), Mechanics (IT>EN) (lots of KudoZ questions for this one)
I certainly agree that the job I have done until now may not be professional standard, after all, I’m not a professional translator, as everyone must already know.
[/quote]
Did you do these IT>EN jobs for free, or were they paid? If they were paid work, then you were hired as a professional translator.
Wolfgang Jörissen wrote:
C'mon guys, were you all so professional right from the start? Have you never overestimated yourself when you accepted a certain assignment?
To err is human. No-one would dispute that. But I certainly never had the arrogance to think that I could translate in a professional context from Italian to French, for example. I am certain that (especially in a field like marketing) my work would never cut it.
"Ah hah--Amy doing her usual moan about non-native translations", you may say. Well, the languages you translate into or from are neither here nor there to me: for me, translating into a language other than English just doesn't make business sense.
I wish you all the best, Juliano. My hope is that you will stick to translations into Portuguese only and make the most of promoting your fantastic area of specialisation.
In bocca al lupo
Amy
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| Advice: get one language pair right before embarking on more | Jul 29, 2008 |
Hi Juliano - your enthusiam for translating is a wonderful thing, but I'd say you're also laboring under a number of misconceptions. One common myth is that translators speak many languages, the more languages they know the better they are as translators. The reality is quite different. Here's one more quote from Chris Durban's "Getting it Right":
Translators and bilinguals – look closer
Professional translators are first and foremost writers, capable of producing te... See more Hi Juliano - your enthusiam for translating is a wonderful thing, but I'd say you're also laboring under a number of misconceptions. One common myth is that translators speak many languages, the more languages they know the better they are as translators. The reality is quite different. Here's one more quote from Chris Durban's "Getting it Right":
Translators and bilinguals – look closer
Professional translators are first and foremost writers, capable of producing texts that read well in the target language. They are generally fluent in their source language(s) as well. Most important of all, they are effective bridges between the languages they work in; they can render the message of the original text, with appropriate style and terminology, in their native language.
Bilingualism is something else. Bilingual speak two languages fluently, but are not necessarily good at moving information between the two, especially in writing. And experience shows that many people described as bilingual over-estimate their communication skills altogether.
In 2000, Lina's, a pricey French sandwich chain, advertised for franchisees abroad with a text concocted by a self-proclaimed bilingual employee. Slogan: "Tomorrow, we expect on your dynamism." Response: zero.
Bilingualism on its own is not a guarantee of written fluency or skill in translation.
Chris Durban, author of the Onion Skin
http://www.atanet.org/docs/Getting_it_right.pdf
http://accurapid.com/journal/03onion.htm ▲ Collapse
| | | | Paula James
Spain
Local time: 20:01
French to English
+ ...
| completely agree | Jul 29, 2008 |
I am very much in agreement with the last two posts. If you've been paid $3000 dollars a week as you were claiming before, it was as a professional, and you're not expected to be a "beginner", you're expected to produce a professional product.
Also, I'm very much in agreement with the native speaker thing most of the time. I know there are some exceptions, but generally not, and well, there are plenty of English speakers who work from Portuguese and Italian, so there should be no... See more I am very much in agreement with the last two posts. If you've been paid $3000 dollars a week as you were claiming before, it was as a professional, and you're not expected to be a "beginner", you're expected to produce a professional product.
Also, I'm very much in agreement with the native speaker thing most of the time. I know there are some exceptions, but generally not, and well, there are plenty of English speakers who work from Portuguese and Italian, so there should be no need. I can understand if it's from an unusual combination there may be little other choice, but in this case I can't really believe an agency couldn't find someone else to do it - this seems very strange on their part.
Like Amy, I only work into English, and as Kim says, think it's better to learn less languages well; much to the surprise of most non-linguists I meet, I have no real interest in learning lots of new ones. And I too love my work, which I don't think is exclusive to taking it seriously as a professional in any way.
One other thing, right when I started I had a couple of different experiences like yours, with agencies giving me lots of work, without checking my credentials, because they had an urgent project to place, then stopping altogether when their normal translators came back/they had to do my paperwork/etc. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Henry Hinds
United States
Local time: 12:01
English to Spanish
+ ...
In memoriam | Translators and bilinguals – look closer | Jul 29, 2008 |
What you say is surely true, Kim. I started out as a very well-balanced bilingual, a great advantage, but then making that connection to express ideas between languages... well, that was a whole new experience. It was probably much more than an effort to learn another new language to total fluency. It took tremendous work and practice before I finally became comfortable with it.
So my advice to Juliano would be to concentrate efforts on only two languages, his strongest, and do ever... See more What you say is surely true, Kim. I started out as a very well-balanced bilingual, a great advantage, but then making that connection to express ideas between languages... well, that was a whole new experience. It was probably much more than an effort to learn another new language to total fluency. It took tremendous work and practice before I finally became comfortable with it.
So my advice to Juliano would be to concentrate efforts on only two languages, his strongest, and do everything to reach excellence there. In Spanish we say: "El que mucho abarca poco aprieta". If you are going to be good, then go for it all, be the BEST. To do that one must concentrate all the time until there are no more secrets, no more obstacles. And when will that time come? Never. All we can do is try to get closer to it every day. ▲ Collapse
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