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Off topic: Beginner’s luck ???
Thread poster: Juliano Martins
Michele Fauble
Michele Fauble  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:44
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
Beginner's luck Jul 29, 2008

Juliano, before your luck takes an unexpected turn for the worse, please take heed of the message that is coming through here strong and clear: Do not translate into a language that is not your native language. Your reputation as a translator is at stake.

I'm sure you can be a very successful translator translating into your native language.


Wishing you the best of luck.




[Edited at 2008-07-30 06:15]


 
Kunik
Kunik  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:44
English to Latvian
+ ...
I don't believe... Jul 30, 2008

... this story one bit. But it is a nice one, though.

 
Amy Duncan (X)
Amy Duncan (X)  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 05:44
Portuguese to English
+ ...
I love these forums Jul 30, 2008

First of all, I think it's great that there are over 60 posts giving Juliano advice and genuinely trying to help him. Several people apologized in advance because English isn't their native language and they hoped they didn't come across as harsh, which I found very sweet and considerate. This is a really great group of people here!

As for you, Juliano, I hope you'll follow the advice that a lot of people gave here and stick to translating into Portuguese. I've been translating for
... See more
First of all, I think it's great that there are over 60 posts giving Juliano advice and genuinely trying to help him. Several people apologized in advance because English isn't their native language and they hoped they didn't come across as harsh, which I found very sweet and considerate. This is a really great group of people here!

As for you, Juliano, I hope you'll follow the advice that a lot of people gave here and stick to translating into Portuguese. I've been translating for over a decade from Portuguese to English, and in all that time have done only one translation from English to Portuguese, and I did it only because it was basically just a list.

If you grab this one language pair and stick to it, you'll have work. And since you love languages, you can still study the others, there's no law against that, and you might be able to use them in the future in your work.

As for credentials and courses and university study, I have none of these. I say fine, for people who want to go that route, but I've always been the self-taught type, and it's stood me in good stead so far. So whichever way you want to go with that, I say "boa sorte."

What I love, Juiano, is your love for translating and your enthusiasm. Combine this with narrowing down to one pair (Eng>Port) and you'll probably carve out a nice career for yourself.

Tudo de bom, rapaz!

Amy
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Juliano Martins
Juliano Martins  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 05:44
Member (2008)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Defining: beginner Jul 30, 2008

Yes, these jobs that I have done were paid. Thus it’s right to assume that I must have tried to do a professional quality work (and I really have tried my best, believe me), despite my lack of specialization on the field. I take it seriously, and we can’t compare what I’m doing here at ProZ to what I have done in my blog 1 year ago, just for the pleasure of it, without proofreading, etc.

And when I say that “I’m a beginner”, I don’t mean without quality or dedication.
... See more
Yes, these jobs that I have done were paid. Thus it’s right to assume that I must have tried to do a professional quality work (and I really have tried my best, believe me), despite my lack of specialization on the field. I take it seriously, and we can’t compare what I’m doing here at ProZ to what I have done in my blog 1 year ago, just for the pleasure of it, without proofreading, etc.

And when I say that “I’m a beginner”, I don’t mean without quality or dedication. I simply mean that I’m new in the business and I have a lot to learn. When I graduated in Computer Science I was a system analyst, but a beginner too. Fresh meat. I could program very well, I won two Programming Olympics at the university, and I always got good jobs at good companies, but I was still a beginner, nevertheless.

I did my best in these ProZ jobs and I imagine that I probably have made some mistakes, that’s why I mentioned a “probable non professional standard”, but the best standard was my goal. I have to start from somewhere. Even in this forum I don’t know certain rules, and I will have more discretion in the future.

I don’t think that the more languages you speak the better. Of course not! When I joined this site, the first thing I noticed was that many translators only worked in few pairs. However I’m the kind of person who likes to learn languages. I enjoy the process of learning something new.

Thanks for the advices. I’m thinking about them.

Best wishes!
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Viktoria Gimbe
Viktoria Gimbe  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 04:44
English to French
+ ...
Here goes nothing... Jul 30, 2008

The mere existence of this thread proves we are in big, BIG trouble! Nothing more to add - many colleagues have already said all I would have said had I picked up this thread earlier. Claudia Digel's first post expresses my thoughts particularly well.

The overly enthusiastic replies many colleagues - or should I say "colleagues"? - have posted are just plain SCARY!

[Edited at 2008-07-30 03:53]


 
Allesklar
Allesklar  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 19:14
English to German
+ ...
Imagine the guy who fixed the brakes of your car telling you that: Jul 30, 2008

Juliano Martins wrote:

Yes, these jobs that I have done were paid. Thus it’s right to assume that I must have tried to do a professional quality work (and I really have tried my best, believe me), despite my lack of specialization on the field.



You are not committing yourself to too much here, are you?

Juliano Martins wrote:

I simply mean that I’m new in the business and I have a lot to learn.


Hope your luck lasts long enough that you don't have to learn the hard way.



[Edited at 2008-07-30 05:37]


 
Kasia Altman (X)
Kasia Altman (X)

Another newbie's view Jul 30, 2008

I myself would not feel up to taking on such vast amounts of work as a complete beginner in the translation business. I am halfway through my Master in Legal Translation (thank goodness for summer break, though it is spent reading laws and studying) and I cannot say I would feel extremely confident taking on a 10,000 word contract, no matter what the time frame would be. I guess it would be an ego boost to be offered such volumes of work so fast, but my gut instinct would be to take it slow an... See more
I myself would not feel up to taking on such vast amounts of work as a complete beginner in the translation business. I am halfway through my Master in Legal Translation (thank goodness for summer break, though it is spent reading laws and studying) and I cannot say I would feel extremely confident taking on a 10,000 word contract, no matter what the time frame would be. I guess it would be an ego boost to be offered such volumes of work so fast, but my gut instinct would be to take it slow and to build up one's capabilities.

As for translating into your non native languages, I would be too hesitant to do that; even with two native languages I only plan to translate into English, with the exception of eventually going between the two native ones.

Just a fellow newbie's point of view.
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AniseK
AniseK  Identity Verified
Malaysia
Local time: 16:44
Japanese to English
+ ...
I envy you... a little... Jul 30, 2008

Henry Hinds wrote:

What you say is surely true, Kim. I started out as a very well-balanced bilingual, a great advantage, but then making that connection to express ideas between languages... well, that was a whole new experience. It was probably much more than an effort to learn another new language to total fluency. It took tremendous work and practice before I finally became comfortable with it.



I am bilingual, and a self-taught translator, or so I thought. So I have this great idea of starting my freelance career. Luckily for me, I discovered what Kim and Henry Hinds said is true early on, through all the tests I have been taking when I applied for translation jobs Lucky because now I am learning to be a translator, instead of just someone who speaks foreign languages fluently.

Anyway, you have to start somewhere, so keep on learning, as a translator - because a translator is always learning. Good luck and best wishes to you, from a beginner to another, may some of your luck rub off on me


 
Luisa Ramos, CT
Luisa Ramos, CT  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:44
English to Spanish
I don't want to rain on your parade Jul 30, 2008

Anisek said:
"...now I am learning to be a translator, instead of just someone who speaks foreign languages fluently."

Juliano, this is the main point you fail to see. Reading, writing, and speaking a foreign language fluently do not a translator make. Only being inmersed in it and living with it day in day out will equip you with the skills to translate it, and yet never at the level of a native speaker of that language. And you have already given us several examples of this
... See more
Anisek said:
"...now I am learning to be a translator, instead of just someone who speaks foreign languages fluently."

Juliano, this is the main point you fail to see. Reading, writing, and speaking a foreign language fluently do not a translator make. Only being inmersed in it and living with it day in day out will equip you with the skills to translate it, and yet never at the level of a native speaker of that language. And you have already given us several examples of this handicap:

"I am graduated in Computer Science..." rather than "I have a degree in Computer Science"
"I have never done any translation course..." rather than "I have never taken..."
"...so I could have a better statistics" rather than "...so I could have better statistics", and so on.

I don't want to rain on your parade but, at this pace, this will eventually catch up with you, and the results will not be pleasant. You say you already "know" several other languages. My advice is the same many of our colleagues have given you: stick to translating to your native language. That should keep you busy, satisfy your passion, and save your face.
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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:44
Member (2004)
English to Italian
all very funny... Jul 30, 2008

or not? What's all this blabbering about enthusiasm, love for the job, passion? What's to do with professionalism? Chip on the shoulder inferiority complex? And sorry if I sound 'harsh', English is not my mother tongue...

 
Nicole Schnell
Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:44
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
I love this thread Jul 30, 2008

I mean, let's forget that the asker claimed that he signed up in November whereas the profile page states that he signed up in September. Let's also forget that the gigantic job was done during the last six weeks while working on other jobs in different language pairs. Let's also forget that the job has been paid in full already - the agency mentioned earlier has a 30 day-policy. Also very strict policies regarding hiring.

But I love the text. Simply replace particular words with:
... See more
I mean, let's forget that the asker claimed that he signed up in November whereas the profile page states that he signed up in September. Let's also forget that the gigantic job was done during the last six weeks while working on other jobs in different language pairs. Let's also forget that the job has been paid in full already - the agency mentioned earlier has a 30 day-policy. Also very strict policies regarding hiring.

But I love the text. Simply replace particular words with: "body fat lost", "muscles gained" or "all of the sudden I was a successful investor - simply by working from my home PC!", and it makes the best infomercial I ever heard.

Feel free to bite my head off.

The difference between a good translator and a storyteller: Professional translators stick to the facts.

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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:44
Member (2004)
English to Italian
I love this thread too... Jul 30, 2008

Nicole Schnell wrote:

I mean, let's forget that the asker claimed that he signed up in November whereas the profile page states that he signed up in September. Let's also forget that the gigantic job was done during the last six weeks while working on other jobs in different language pairs. Let's also forget that the job has been paid in full already - the agency mentioned earlier has a 30 day-policy. Also very strict policies regarding hiring.

But I love the text. Simply replace particular words with: "body fat lost", "muscles gained" or "all of the sudden I was a successful investor - simply by working from my home PC!", and it makes the best infomercial I ever heard.

Feel free to bite my head off.

The difference between a good translator and a storyteller: Professional translators stick to the facts.



But you sound far too 'harsh'....


 
Nicole Schnell
Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:44
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
Oooops. Jul 30, 2008

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

Nicole Schnell wrote:

I mean, let's forget that the asker claimed that he signed up in November whereas the profile page states that he signed up in September. Let's also forget that the gigantic job was done during the last six weeks while working on other jobs in different language pairs. Let's also forget that the job has been paid in full already - the agency mentioned earlier has a 30 day-policy. Also very strict policies regarding hiring.

But I love the text. Simply replace particular words with: "body fat lost", "muscles gained" or "all of the sudden I was a successful investor - simply by working from my home PC!", and it makes the best infomercial I ever heard.

Feel free to bite my head off.

The difference between a good translator and a storyteller: Professional translators stick to the facts.



But you sound far too 'harsh'....



Clumsy me... Blush.


 
Juliano Martins
Juliano Martins  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 05:44
Member (2008)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
sign up Jul 30, 2008

...let's forget that the asker claimed that he signed up in November whereas the profile page states that he signed up in September.


I don't really remember when I signed up here. I just know it was last year in the second semester. Since I didn't have any feedback, this is not very important. However in February 2008 I became a member. That's for sure! Thanks for the correction, anyway!

30 day-policy


45 day-policy

------------------------

Well, believe me or not, I’m stick to the facts.


 
awilliams
awilliams
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:44
Italian to English
+ ...
True, but... Jul 30, 2008

Nicole Schnell wrote:

The difference between a good translator and a storyteller: Professional translators stick to the facts.



True, all true, but realistically that doesn't really help Juliano. The guy could be a whizz at English to Portuguese translations and I wouldn't have a clue. Surely we can overlook a little exaggeration, if there was any.

The point (as repeated endlessly above!) is that he needs to stop looking at the Italian to English translation process (for example) as a professional process he can improve on and build competence in ("the best standard was my goal") and take our advice (NB singular) and view it instead as an area for personal growth that is completely 100% unsuitable as a professional translation pair.


 
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