How long to get established (EN > RU translators)? Thread poster: XXXphxxx (X)
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XXXphxxx (X) 
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
Portuguese to English
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I have a friend who has been translating part-time (on and off) for a number of years and is considering embarking on a full-time career in translation. It's been a while since I first set myself up, plus I don't know the EN > RU market. Has anyone got any indication of how much work is around and how long it is likely to take her to get established (i.e. as a regular source of income)? I realise this may be a 'How long is a piece of string?' question. Just trying to give her a rough idea at thi... See more I have a friend who has been translating part-time (on and off) for a number of years and is considering embarking on a full-time career in translation. It's been a while since I first set myself up, plus I don't know the EN > RU market. Has anyone got any indication of how much work is around and how long it is likely to take her to get established (i.e. as a regular source of income)? I realise this may be a 'How long is a piece of string?' question. Just trying to give her a rough idea at this stage and an idea of whether it is worth it at all. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Lisa Simpson wrote:
I have a friend who has been translating part-time (on and off) for a number of years and is considering embarking on a full-time career in translation. It's been a while since I first set myself up, plus I don't know the EN > RU market. Has anyone got any indication of how much work is around and how long it is likely to take her to get established (i.e. as a regular source of income)? I realise this may be a 'How long is a piece of string?' question. Just trying to give her a rough idea at this stage and an idea of whether it is worth it at all.
All I can say is that every business & management course will tell you that it takes at least 3 years to get any business up and running and breaking even. In my own experience as a translator, that rule applies to translating too.
[Edited at 2012-01-03 13:58 GMT]
| | | | Claudia Brauer
United States
Local time: 05:07
Member (2011)
English to Spanish
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| Time to get established | Jan 3, 2012 |
Lisa, I agree with Tom that, as in any business, it might take some three years to get established and "break-even" in the the industry. And I think that this is the key, to see it as ESTABLISHING a BUSINESS. This means, many translators and interpreters do not see themselves as business-owners, which is, in reality, what they are. And there is a big difference in today's world, because a small-business owner is much much much more than just a freelancer. I would say that in those three firs... See more Lisa, I agree with Tom that, as in any business, it might take some three years to get established and "break-even" in the the industry. And I think that this is the key, to see it as ESTABLISHING a BUSINESS. This means, many translators and interpreters do not see themselves as business-owners, which is, in reality, what they are. And there is a big difference in today's world, because a small-business owner is much much much more than just a freelancer. I would say that in those three first years, your time would be spent much more on marketing your services and establishing your "brand-name" than any other thing. ProZ has a wide array of short sessions on how to brand yourself, how to create a marketing plan, how to create a business plan, and I believe that if any one is really serious about the translation and interpreting industry, this is one of the first things you must do. See yourself as a business owner. And as a business owner, you need to spend a great deal of time setting up your business. It takes a large amount of administrative (non-translation non-interpreting) time. If you are willing to make that time/effort investment, the future of the language services industry is really extraordinarily good. Now, a last word of advise. The industry as a whole is becoming more and more reliant on technology (CAT tools, MT, web-based services). So, for any translator or interpreter to survive in this Global Village of the 21st Century, you must be able to compete with those who are already established. And most of them are already technologically-savvy. That is the next big challenge of any one entering the industry. Make sure you have the tools to allow you to compete. Good luck to your friend. There is a great beautiful rewarding (and economically viable) prize at the end of the rainbow. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| I agree except | Jan 3, 2012 |
I agree with everything Claudia says, except for the CAT tool part. I've attempted to use various CAT tools and find they are a time-waster for the types of translations I do. I imagine they may be useful for very repetitive, mechanical types of translation but I don't do that type of work; and I've noticed that nearly all the topics in the Proz discussion forums are about problems people are having with CAT tools !
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XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
Portuguese to English
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TOPIC STARTER
They're handy in terms of repetition but also consistency. If a client wants to 'reign in' a translator and ensure they stick to particular terms and descriptions (in my case, this particularly applies to pharmaceutical translations), then a good TM plays the role of those reams and reams of reference material or glossaries that some clients provide and often prove to be a waste of time. I find the interface with my own glossary is also a great time-saver. In short, yes, I agree with you Claudia... See more They're handy in terms of repetition but also consistency. If a client wants to 'reign in' a translator and ensure they stick to particular terms and descriptions (in my case, this particularly applies to pharmaceutical translations), then a good TM plays the role of those reams and reams of reference material or glossaries that some clients provide and often prove to be a waste of time. I find the interface with my own glossary is also a great time-saver. In short, yes, I agree with you Claudia, CAT tools are moving towards becoming a must in certain areas of our business. It'll be disappointing to relay to her that it could take 3 years to be up and running. It took me a lot less than that back in '98 but a) we didn't have CAT tools back then (or email for that matter) and b) I worked part-time in the business for almost a year before I jacked my day job in. I'd be interested to hear from anyone working in the EN > RU language combination to know how the market is faring.
[Edited at 2012-01-03 15:27 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 02:07
English to German
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In memoriam | Learn the tools first, then become a translator? | Jan 3, 2012 |
Claudia Brauer wrote:
extraordinarily good. Now, a last word of advise. The industry as a whole is becoming more and more reliant on technology (CAT tools, MT, web-based services). So, for any translator or interpreter to survive in this Global Village of the 21st Century, you must be able to compete with those who are already established. And most of them are already technologically-savvy. That is the next big challenge of any one entering the industry. Make sure you have the tools to allow you to compete. Good luck to your friend. There is a great beautiful rewarding (and economically viable) prize at the end of the rainbow.
Sorry Claudia, I and the majority of high-end translators make our money with writing, we are paid high rates for our expertise and our writing skills. To tell a newcomer that he/she can only survive on this market by managing CAT tools is quite condescending.
| | | | Rodion Shein
Russian Federation
Local time: 12:07
English to Russian
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| EN > RU Market | Jan 3, 2012 |
Unfortunately, Russian agencies and even direct clients offer extremely low rates. Most Moscow agencies usually offer something between 0.014 and 0.025 EUR per source word, while direct clients' expectations are between 0.04 and 0.06 EUR.
Generally, this results in low quality translations, because the above rates can make happy mostly newbies and students. At the same time, established colleagues (at least those whom I know) work with Western and some Chinese agencies, rates starti... See more Unfortunately, Russian agencies and even direct clients offer extremely low rates. Most Moscow agencies usually offer something between 0.014 and 0.025 EUR per source word, while direct clients' expectations are between 0.04 and 0.06 EUR.
Generally, this results in low quality translations, because the above rates can make happy mostly newbies and students. At the same time, established colleagues (at least those whom I know) work with Western and some Chinese agencies, rates starting at 0.07 EUR. Certainly, there may be some exceptions to this rule; however, IMHO it makes sense to focus on the EN>RU market segment, where clients are located outside of Russia and CIS countries.
It took me about two years to achieve strong business position. However, I think it was a bit too long. It was totally my fault — I didn't apply adequate self-marketing efforts and even didn't use ProZ.com tools to full extent.
I strongly believe that it's possible to get establised within six months, provided that your quality is acceptable and you make enough efforts to promote your services.
Finally, I would like to point out that there's high demand in EN>RU, at least in IT and marketing — just see the growth of international cooperation in these areas and the number of players who offer their products and services in the Russian market. ▲ Collapse
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
Portuguese to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Time and a place | Jan 3, 2012 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
Sorry Claudia, I and the majority of high-end translators make our money with writing, we are paid high rates for our expertise and our writing skills. To tell a newcomer that he/she can only survive on this market by managing CAT tools is quite condescending.
To be fair to Claudia I'm not sure she suggested managing CAT tools PRIOR to becoming a translator. I imagine she's simply drawing our attention to their undeniable role in the current market and the fact that there are a lot of translators out there with the expertise and tools - this is something that has to be recognised, they're the competition. A CAT tool isn't going to impede anyone's expertise and writing skills, but there is a place for them. I do a lot of legal and pharmaceutical translations where CAT tools can certainly be helpful. I only wish that all the translators whose work I review would pay closer attention to the translations the TM is offering up. At the same time, I do translations/copywriting work for high-end jewellery manufacturers where a CAT tool would be completely and utterly redundant. There is a place for CAT tools and they can ensure quality and consistency on a large project in CERTAIN subject areas, but we need to stop generalising about them. They have a place but certainly not in all areas of translation.
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neilmac
Spain
Local time: 11:07
Spanish to English
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| Not my reality | Jan 4, 2012 |
I have serious issued with being told what I am by someone else, as in "... many translators and interpreters do not see themselves as business-owners, which is, in reality, what they are."
I see myself as a semi-professional person who provides a service to people, businesses or institutions by request. As as a legal definition, "business-owner" may apply to me, but I prefer to define myself, and my "reality", on my own terms.
As for translation into Russian, AFAIK t... See more I have serious issued with being told what I am by someone else, as in "... many translators and interpreters do not see themselves as business-owners, which is, in reality, what they are."
I see myself as a semi-professional person who provides a service to people, businesses or institutions by request. As as a legal definition, "business-owner" may apply to me, but I prefer to define myself, and my "reality", on my own terms.
As for translation into Russian, AFAIK the rates are quite low, there is a lot of well-qualified competition and there is more money to be made in translating from Russian into English.
[Edited at 2012-01-04 08:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Oleg Rudavin
Ukraine
Local time: 12:07
Member (2003)
English to Ukrainian
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| Factors to consider | Jan 4, 2012 |
Lisa Simpson wrote: Has anyone got any indication of how much work is around
Plenty! Much more than can be handled by the existing EN>RU translation resources. But part of the problem is, much of it is offered at a rate below acceptable.
and how long it is likely to take her to get established (i.e. as a regular source of income)?
As every beginner is in a unique situation in terms of their experience, background, business skills, even target income figures, so it can be anywhere between 6 month to 3-4 years.
Experience, knowledge in a specific field, ability to proficiently use CAT's (whenever applicable) or official credentials can all be helpful in establishing long-term and regular relations with new clients.
The getting established period will be longer when one can't or doesn't market oneself; when one gets overloaded with jobs at poor rates; when a translator entering the market hadn't yet found his or her area of specialization.
To add to the above, I would like to mention a factor which makes the present situation quite different from what it used to be a few years ago. In 2002-2005, many translation agencies hopped at the opportunity to expand their businesses by using freelancers. That was that time when the only thing one had to do to get clients was to get visible in the global web.
These days, every agency has a database full of translators for each and every occasion or language combination, so special efforts are needed to become a part of the existing production scheme - specialization working best.
To a great extent, the same is true about direct clients.
Cheers,
Oleg
| | | | | It is difficult | Jan 4, 2012 |
The thing with TRADOS is that as many companies use it, if you do not have it, you simply won´t get as many jobs as you would like.
[Editado a las 2012-01-04 18:04 GMT]
| | | | Dave Bindon
Greece
Local time: 12:07
Greek to English
In memoriam
juanpablosans wrote:
The thing with TRADOS is that as many companies use it, if you do not have it, you simply won´t get as many jobs as you would like.
[Editado a las 2012-01-04 18:04 GMT]
I get more than enough work without having Trados. No potential client - even those who specify Trados - has ever rejected me when I've told them that (as my profile and CV state) I don't use it.
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Tom Fennell
United States
Local time: 04:07
Russian to English
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Nicole Schnell wrote:
Sorry Claudia, I and the majority of high-end translators make our money with writing, we are paid high rates for our expertise and our writing skills. To tell a newcomer that he/she can only survive on this market by managing CAT tools is quite condescending.
Nicole, you may enjoy re-entering your superb sentences and phrases time and again like Narcissus staring into the pool, but I don't.
I craft outstanding renditions of long, complex legal phrases and sentences, but once I've done that, I have little interest in repeating the exercise. I immensely enjoy translating well, but I want to maximize my financial return from doing it, and CAT tools seem indispensable for that in all but a handful of fields (literary translations and some marketing jobs come to mind first).
Perhaps you work in one of these fields, but Claudia's advice was quite obviously offered in the spirit of good will rather than any sort of condescension whatsoever. It may have needed supplementation, but not condemnation.
[Edited at 2012-01-07 19:31 GMT]
| | | | | Just curious... | Jan 7, 2012 |
Lisa Simpson wrote:
I have a friend who has been translating part-time (on and off)...
So do you mean to say that this person worked series of full days for occasional periods of time (i.e. she did not have another job), or part of her day for occasional periods of time (i.e. she had another job with regular working times and translated on the side)?
Sorry, but "on and off" sounds very confusing, although things get worse when someone says "on-and-off-ish".
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Lisa Simpson wrote:
I have a friend who has been translating part-time (on and off)... So do you mean to say that this person worked series of full days for occasional periods of time (i.e. she did not have another job), or part of her day for occasional periods of time (i.e. she had another job with regular working times and translated on the side)? Sorry, but "on and off" sounds very confusing, although things get worse when someone says "on-and-off-ish".
She has always had a full-time job (nothing to do with translating) but does translations every now and then (so in her own time) for a friend who is a translator or for former colleagues now working in other businesses. She has been doing this for a number of years (10+) but the work is only very occasional (thus the on-and-off).
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