Need advice - Starting off as a PM
Thread poster: Ayoub Hassan
Ayoub Hassan
Ayoub Hassan  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 19:12
English to Hindi
+ ...
Aug 1, 2016

Hello

I've been in the Translation field, working mostly as a File Engineer for 9+ yrs now. I'm looking to get myself certified by SDL through Proz, as a PM. I'd like to know everything you guys can tell me about. How do I get started as a Freelance Project Manager, and where do I begin to look once I get certified.

I'll keep this short and discuss as I get any reply.

Thanks a lot. Cheers!
Ayoub Hassan Adur


 
aedw88
aedw88
Local time: 14:42
French to English
+ ...
Go for it, but freelance? Aug 25, 2016

Hi there

In the company where you work, do they hire freelance project managers? Personally I didn't know this was done practice (I've been working in translation companies for 5+ years - with some remote project managers but they're hired by an agency on a permanent contract).

Project management certification in Trados will certainly give you a boost, but if you REALLY want to up your game, look at the project management qualifications out there like PMP which are cov
... See more
Hi there

In the company where you work, do they hire freelance project managers? Personally I didn't know this was done practice (I've been working in translation companies for 5+ years - with some remote project managers but they're hired by an agency on a permanent contract).

Project management certification in Trados will certainly give you a boost, but if you REALLY want to up your game, look at the project management qualifications out there like PMP which are coveted and will show an employer that you can make the jump from engineering to PM'ing swiftly and painlessly. This is seemingly becoming more popular.

Having both should get you somewhere. Most people don't even have either of these to be honest, and with the sector growing and a shortage of talent in some places, you may even be able to get a job with your current experience in the industry which is vast, emphasising that in reality engineering files has cross-over with PM'ing in receiving requests, acting on them fast, providing them to your "client"/colleague, and being flexible, etc etc.

It depends totally on the employer and the opportunities where you're located. In India you bridge APAC and EMEA so can potentially provide that added value.

Freelance PM'ing though I know little about, I'd be interesting in hearing if this is done practice where you currently work?

Thanks,
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Robert Forstag
Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:42
Spanish to English
+ ...
My suggestions Aug 26, 2016

Here are some suggestions for you as you look to launch your career as a Project Manager within the field of Translation:
1.
Do not characterize projects that are tiny, mind-numbingly dull, have cumbersome formatting requirements, or that involve similar annoyances as "exciting opportunities."
2.
Avoid the use of exclamation points and smilies in your communications with translators.
3.
Eschew mindless and meaningless greetings at the beginning of your message
... See more
Here are some suggestions for you as you look to launch your career as a Project Manager within the field of Translation:
1.
Do not characterize projects that are tiny, mind-numbingly dull, have cumbersome formatting requirements, or that involve similar annoyances as "exciting opportunities."
2.
Avoid the use of exclamation points and smilies in your communications with translators.
3.
Eschew mindless and meaningless greetings at the beginning of your messages to freelancers to whom you offer projects (i.e., along the lines of, "Hello Robert! Today's Thursday. That means tomorrow is Friday. Yay! Got plans for the weekend?").
4.
Do not promise to get back to a translator regarding a bid that s/he has proposed on a job, and then fail to do so.
5.
Do not continue to send e-mails to freelancers regarding offers after it has become evident that his/her rates are unacceptably high for your agency. Doing this is extremely annoying to the translator receiving the e-mails.

Best wishes for success in the future!
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Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:42
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Stand out as an expert, but not stuffy Aug 26, 2016

aedw88 wrote:
Freelance PM'ing though I know little about, I'd be interesting in hearing if this is done practice where you currently work?

Well, I know the OP lives in India but if you're freelancing in the translation business you work anywhere in the world, surely? It's all done online. I know I have clients in practically all the continents. And you're your own employer. I've certainly heard of freelance PMs, though not that often.

Project management certification in Trados will certainly give you a boost, but if you REALLY want to up your game, look at the project management qualifications out there like PMP which are coveted

Spot on! I think it's hyper important for a freelance PM to offer more than an employed one. We all know that very many agencies hire students on internship conditions to do PM work. A freelancer certainly can't compete with them on price. So you have to appeal to clients who want real expert management, not paper-pushing.

Robert Forstag wrote:
2.
Avoid the use of exclamation points and smilies in your communications with translators.

Oh, that's sad . I feel that if a PM sticks to the other rules you give, and so treats translators with respect - as partners in the translation process - there's no reason why some informality shouldn't creep in after a while. Stuffy formality puts me off, I'm afraid. I have to remember that some cultures prefer it. I tend to work more with direct clients and small agency owners than with salaried PMs, so maybe that makes a difference, but I like to be informal after the initial getting-to-know-you stages when you have to tread carefully. I like to go very quickly to first names and from then we often exchange snippets about the weather, current affairs, public holidays etc. Not in every email but when appropriate. And punctuation and smilies are both ways to ensure you convey the meaning you intended rather than risk misunderstandings.

Although I would certainly consign endless hollow repetitions of "Have a nice day!" and "Hope this finds you well!" to where they belong.


 
Angela Malik
Angela Malik  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:42
German to English
+ ...
Agree with Sheila Aug 27, 2016

All of Sheila's points are definitely good ones to consider, especially the point about expert management vs paper-pushing.

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Robert Forstag wrote:
Avoid the use of exclamation points and smilies in your communications with translators.


Oh, that's sad . I feel that if a PM sticks to the other rules you give, and so treats translators with respect - as partners in the translation process - there's no reason why some informality shouldn't creep in after a while. Stuffy formality puts me off, I'm afraid. I have to remember that some cultures prefer it. I tend to work more with direct clients and small agency owners than with salaried PMs, so maybe that makes a difference, but I like to be informal after the initial getting-to-know-you stages when you have to tread carefully. I like to go very quickly to first names and from then we often exchange snippets about the weather, current affairs, public holidays etc. Not in every email but when appropriate. And punctuation and smilies are both ways to ensure you convey the meaning you intended rather than risk misunderstandings.

Although I would certainly consign endless hollow repetitions of "Have a nice day!" and "Hope this finds you well!" to where they belong.


Yeah, I certainly prefer a more informal approach, but I think Robert is just tired of the fake smileys and other attempts by a person who actually doesn't know you from Adam to pretend to be your "friend" so they can place a job, but they wouldn't hesitate to blame it all on you and turn nasty if things go wrong with a job.

I suppose my personal approach (and my preference when others are speaking to me) is somewhere in the middle. As long as it's genuine and appropriate, it's OK to be casual after you've interacted a bit with someone and you're sort of "on first name terms" with them by that point. I actually find that my German clients seem to like the approach a lot. One of them once told me that he found it refreshing and a relief to switch to the informal "du" so quickly (it actually wasn't that quickly for my own home culture -- I grew up in Louisiana -- which is very friendly very quickly, pretty much with total strangers, but for German culture it was pretty fast).

Although I do find it annoying that these days sometimes without an exclamation mark or smiley, text can come across as "flat". I do miss the days when exclamation marks were rarer.


 
Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)
Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)  Identity Verified
Thailand
Local time: 20:42
English to Thai
+ ...
Respect Aug 28, 2016

Ayoub8 wrote:

I've been in the Translation field, working mostly as a File Engineer for 9+ yrs now. I'm looking to get myself certified by SDL through Proz, as a PM. I'd like to know everything you guys can tell me about. How do I get started as a Freelance Project Manager, and where do I begin to look once I get certified.



In my recent job, I met with a rude PM from Scotland. She replied to me only when she badly wanted to. In general, she ignored my inquiries. She also threatened me not to pay unless i resend the files I submitted her again and again.
I expect the revered, respectful, friendly and professional-like manner of a PM toward new freelancers. I do not want to be an unpaid, free worker for an oversea translation agency. I do not expect unmanly treat when PM contacts with a translation are through a few emails only.
.
Soonthon L.


 
Ayoub Hassan
Ayoub Hassan  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 19:12
English to Hindi
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks a lot! Aug 28, 2016

Project management certification in Trados will certainly give you a boost, but if you REALLY want to up your game, look at the project management qualifications out there like PMP which are coveted and will show an employer that you can make the jump from engineering to PM'ing swiftly and painlessly. This is seemingly becoming more popular.

Having both should get you somewhere. Most people don't even have either of these to be honest, and with the sector growing and a shortage of talent in some places, you may even be able to get a job with your current experience in the industry which is vast, emphasising that in reality engineering files has cross-over with PM'ing in receiving requests, acting on them fast, providing them to your "client"/colleague, and being flexible, etc etc.


That was quite clear and exactly what I wanted to know more about. I will consider PMP and get that completed once I've covered the Trados certification. About freelance PM'ing, I only meant to ask if that's something feasible. I love the Engineering part, I do, and I'd continue this path for as long as I can, but PM'ing is also something I'm very much interested in. I do understand it works through Agencies mostly for freelancers, but as a freelance I was just wondering if that's a better idea - to take up jobs independently, though I know it would be quite hard. Let me complete the certifications and take things as they come from there.

My suggestions

Here are some suggestions for you as you look to launch your career as a Project Manager within the field of Translation:


Thanks for your valuable suggestions, Robert! I've noted them down, will be sure to remember these pointers!

Well, I know the OP lives in India but if you're freelancing in the translation business you work anywhere in the world, surely? It's all done online. I know I have clients in practically all the continents. And you're your own employer. I've certainly heard of freelance PMs, though not that often.


Sheila, Thanks a lot for your views on this. It's a good point and the fact that these days work's all done online, is exactly what made me ask if freelancing is the way to go! Your points were quite clear too, and I'll definitely be looking at all possible opportunities once am done with the certifications.

Yeah, I certainly prefer a more informal approach, but I think Robert is just tired of the fake smileys and other attempts by a person who actually doesn't know you from Adam to pretend to be your "friend" so they can place a job, but they wouldn't hesitate to blame it all on you and turn nasty if things go wrong with a job.


Angela, I agree with you. The few times I communicated directly with Translators and clients in regards to file types and formatting, I've always tried to be as friendly as possible - less smileys though, but never shied away from using exclamation points as required. I guess it's all meant to express the intended tone through emails. Your feedback was quite helpful too!

Thanks a lot for your reply, everyone! I'll probably keep this thread updated as I go through completing my certifications and further.

Ayoub Hassan


 
aedw88
aedw88
Local time: 14:42
French to English
+ ...
My 2 cents Aug 28, 2016

Sheila Wilson wrote:

aedw88 wrote:
Freelance PM'ing though I know little about, I'd be interesting in hearing if this is done practice where you currently work?

Well, I know the OP lives in India but if you're freelancing in the translation business you work anywhere in the world, surely? It's all done online. I know I have clients in practically all the continents. And you're your own employer. I've certainly heard of freelance PMs, though not that often.


Thanks Sheila, it's an interesting point. Having worked in a global LSP, whilst it's true we had a couple of people scattered about, these people were located in countries where the LSP actually had an office already (e.g. office in London, one engineer in Manchester), as having someone in a different country where no office existed would cause I presume a large legal headache for the company in question and it costs a lot to look into legal & risk implications of hiring someone in an unknown jurisdiction. The problem with being a freelance project manager is that you essentially need to have an exclusive relationship with just one LSP...the training involved and the workflows are completely different for each LSP (believe it or not) and many LSP contracts require exclusivity to prevent leakage of sensitive information or company secrets (e.g. workflows and knowledge) so I don't think it's that easy for a freelance PM in the same way it is for a freelance translator to work for various companies. Training with the proprietary internal systems also tends to take a couple of weeks at minimum. All the contracts with LSPs which I have signed have had exclusivity clauses.

Therefore, I think you are right, but the OP would probably have to focus on countries where the company in question already at least has some presence and would probably be forced in one way or another to stick to that company only. As far as I'm aware, project managers are kept on a tight leash in most translation companies...you wouldn't believe the hassle it is for a project manager working in the company's offices to get a laptop and permission to work from home for just one day!! Trust seems to be a big issue as PMs often abandon one company for another. I don't want to put the OP off, I'm sure it can be done and it indeed has been done, as long as they can prove the added value to the company and are willing to go through the legal hoops to employ someone in India (or wherever) on the basis of an exclusive contract.

This at least is my experience and opinion..though if you've heard of freelance PMs then maybe some (perhaps smaller?) companies may be more open to freelance contracts with PMs?! Unfortunately most of my experience is with the largest companies.


@Anglea & @Sheila:
I'm glad you both feel that way towards PMs I think many translators don't realise how hard some of them have it and building a relationship with translators comes important. When I was a PM I built relationships (of course professional, there's only so far you can be "friends" with a provider...) and it made working with translators a pleasure. Rob may not be aware of this (or perhaps he is?) that it's not the PMs who agree turnaround times, prices, projects or anything with the client... they are simply passed the hot potato from their Sales colleagues (who often don't know much about the industry and agree crazy deliveries, crazy prices, crazy agreements) and told to 'deal with it' and of course some "exciting opportunities" can be real awful jobs but the PM is in the middle of the client's agreed requirements with sales, and the translators and they have to find some way of getting rid of it and assigning it to decent translators at the right price, which can be a challenge, and worse is when translators reply in a way which is very "diva"...the PM may agree entirely with you and may feel sorry for you, but they're just trying to do their job! So yes, smileys, courteous messages, mutual respect, and an interest in client/provider (which ever role you play) is paramount I think.

@Soonthon: I think you got the bad luck of being in contact with an unprofessional or inexperienced PM... or one who is simply overworked and whose bosses probably refuse help by way of hiring an extra colleague...though refusing not to pay is of course not acceptable... I wish you luck with your other clients.


 


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