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estimating my worth
מפרסם התגובה: Brian Joyce

Yolande Hivart
אוסטריה
Local time: 04:27
חבר (2016)
מגרמנית לצרפתית
I think the only one who knows is YOU Mar 4

The point is here rather matching the expectations or to get the work out another venture point.

If you earn enough to snub people until someone tell you how great you are, this is fine, this is your right. If not you have to swallow your pride to make the ends meet.

I think what is seen as worth also evolve in a career, I have sometimes the feeling that the more I learn, the more is expected from me, pushing me out of the edge of my comfort zone to new clients. Or it i
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The point is here rather matching the expectations or to get the work out another venture point.

If you earn enough to snub people until someone tell you how great you are, this is fine, this is your right. If not you have to swallow your pride to make the ends meet.

I think what is seen as worth also evolve in a career, I have sometimes the feeling that the more I learn, the more is expected from me, pushing me out of the edge of my comfort zone to new clients. Or it is because competition increased.

Only you can tell, and noone will be able to be behind of your screen telling it for you how you apply your knowlege. I - for my part - had as a vendor the biggest disappointment from one of the shiniest profile, I do not believe into the polish, but it is marketing fact and peer gathering that will tell you that the one who wrote the perfect profile will be the same delivering you the translation.

I wish you much luck in this world of shadows and uncertainty, we are not all here for the same reason. My point of sale might be irrelevant to your market. Some are employed, some are scratching for a living, other are students, last ones are relying on their spouse if they expect too much and get too little.

Don't give up - if you are non conformist and asking for such a question here, you might be in for more trouble than you bargained for.

Probably at the end of the day, only your income sheet will tell you if your strategy was the good one.

[Edited at 2020-03-04 15:44 GMT]
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Brian Joyce
P.L.F.Persio
 

Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
הממלכה המאוחדת
Local time: 03:27
חבר (2014)
מיפנית לאנגלית
Still digging, I see Mar 4

Brian Joyce wrote:
Alright I admit it, I think that I am too too talented to be ignored by agency staffers with a mickey mouse degree and a need to pay their coke bill

Even as an attempt at humour, referring to your potential clients as users of illegal drugs is probably unwise...

I can't help my nature

It seems likely that you are confusing your nature with your behaviour. You're right, the former cannot be changed to any great extent. The latter can, and one sign of maturity is the ability to control one's own behaviour. Conversely, failing to control your natural, ah, exuberance, will lead to repercussions in the workplace, whether you are an employee or a freelancer.

Dan

[Edited at 2020-03-04 16:28 GMT]


Thomas T. Frost
Jorge Payan
Teresa Borges
P.L.F.Persio
 

Brian Joyce  Identity Verified
הממלכה המאוחדת
מצרפתית לאנגלית
TOPIC STARTER
Still digging Mar 4

I don't think my behaviour is bad I have a very good work ethic, I may be a maverick but there are few who have done what I have done with so little to do it with.

 

Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
הממלכה המאוחדת
Local time: 03:27
חבר (2014)
מיפנית לאנגלית
Top Gun? Really? Mar 4

Brian Joyce wrote:
I don't think my behaviour is bad I have a very good work ethic, I may be a maverick but there are few who have done what I have done with so little to do it with.

Brian, I don't know whether your behaviour is bad but it's not going to attract clients. In the first post of this topic, you put out this rather plaintive question:

And why do I find it hard to find work ?

We're trying to give some answers, and most of them concern the lack of professionalism on your part that we think we perceive. Rather than take this on board, you've doubled down. In the process you've accused client staff of having mickey-mouse degrees, labelled them druggies, and implied that those with more polished CVs than yourself are deserving of "immense contempt".

Finally, the fact that somebody over 18 can unselfconsciously refer themselves as a "maverick" is both revealing and worrying. Tom Cruise called himself Maverick in Top Gun, ended up a hero and got the girl but - and this is a pretty significant "but" - that was a Hollywood movie, thirty years ago.

In real life, the last thing people in a conventional company (i.e. the vast majority) want to do is work with mavericks, daredevils, smart-alecs, nonconformists or other assorted rebels without a clue. They want to work with people who are predictable, reliable, and competent. Nothing you have written so far shows that you even accept that basic fact, let alone that you're trying to do something about it.

So you have a choice if you want to succeed in this industry: change, and keep changing, or fail, and keep failing.

Good luck mate.

Dan


Thomas T. Frost
Jorge Payan
Kay Denney
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Teresa Borges
P.L.F.Persio
Rachel Waddington
 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
חבר (2014)
מדנית לאנגלית
+ ...
You don't even understand the French text you've translated Mar 4

Teresa Borges wrote:

And the sample translation submitted is filled with mistakes:

"mesure d'éloignement" is not "a certain distance"
"s’en soit saisie" is not "to be shaken"
(...)


OMG, I just had a look, and Teresa Borges is right. I could continue where she left off:

‘des jeunes femmes’ means ‘young women’, not ‘two young women’.

A ‘référent mixité’ does not mean ‘mixed gender class’.

‘Une dizaine de personnes, victimes et témoins, sont impliquées.’: ‘une dizaine’ means ‘about ten’, not ‘tens’.

‘La place des « féminines » est un combat quotidien’: ‘féminine’ refers to women, not feminism.

You forgot to translate ‘La gendarmerie a été saisie.’ at the beginning.

And that’s just examples.

This is in addition to all the punctuation errors and various references to other articles left untranslated in the source, which you’ve simply copied and pasted from Le Figaro without cleaning up irrelevant text. It’s an even worse mess than your CV.

There are more than 20,000 French-English translators at Proz with English as their native language. Ask yourself why a client would choose you when they can get a proper translation for less than what you ask.

You need a reality check, mate. I keep asking myself if the whole thing is a joke and you’ll tell us, ‘Ha, I got y’all wound up … you really believed I wanted to be a translator – jeez!’ in a moment.

But if this is not a joke, you’re only fooling yourself. There’s no way you’re going to make a living out of this. You’re doing yourself no favour by believing you are. You may be able to fool the occasional client once, but they would be justified in not paying. When you’re in a hole, stop digging.

Here’s a bohemian idea: buy an old camper van and drive around in France and translate their restaurant menus against a meal. Or do whatever jobs you can find. A Lille restaurant I visited once had ‘smoked heel’ on their menu. You may be able to compete with that. Then after ten years you can write a book about your experiences and get someone to edit it.


Jorge Payan
Chris S
Dulz
Kay Denney
Teresa Borges
P.L.F.Persio
Sarah Maidstone
 

Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
הונג קונג
Local time: 10:27
חבר
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+ ...
. Mar 5

Thomas T. Frost wrote:

‘des jeunes femmes’ means ‘young women’, not ‘two young women’.

A ‘référent mixité’ does not mean ‘mixed gender class’.

‘Une dizaine de personnes, victimes et témoins, sont impliquées.’: ‘une dizaine’ means ‘about ten’, not ‘tens’.

‘La place des « féminines » est un combat quotidien’: ‘féminine’ refers to women, not feminism.

Pfft. Correct translations are for conformists.

[Edited at 2020-03-05 05:44 GMT]


Dan Lucas
The Misha
Thomas T. Frost
P.L.F.Persio
 

Dulz  Identity Verified
גרמניה
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+ ...
Come on... Mar 5

Thomas T. Frost wrote:

I keep asking myself if the whole thing is a joke and you’ll tell us, ‘Ha, I got y’all wound up … you really believed I wanted to be a translator – jeez!’ in a moment.


Of course it's a joke. It's more than obvious. Two pages of discussion for nothing...


 

Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
הממלכה המאוחדת
Local time: 03:27
חבר (2014)
מיפנית לאנגלית
You can't be sure these days Mar 5

Dulz wrote:
Of course it's a joke. It's more than obvious. Two pages of discussion for nothing...

One would like to think so, right? The problem is that we have had people on the forum like this who have behaved like this and weren't joking at all.

Do you remember the chap who appeared last year asking why he wasn't getting work, and stressed that he was a "polyglot"? When others gave him feedback, pointing out that knowing a little bit about eight different languages wasn't going to appeal to clients who tend to like specialists, he cancelled his membership and disappeared. Initially I thought that might be a joke, but he was deadly serious.

The line between reality and satire has become increasingly blurred.

Regards,
Dan


Dulz
Teresa Borges
Thomas T. Frost
P.L.F.Persio
Kevin Fulton
Jorge Payan
 

Robin LEPLUMEY
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Local time: 04:27
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Not a joke Mar 5

Of course it's a joke. It's more than obvious. Two pages of discussion for nothing...


I'm afraid not. I actually found a corresponding LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-joyce-6a5690122/?originalSubdomain=uk

Brian, I'm afraid the above examples speak for themselves. One does not simply become a translator.


Dulz
 

Dulz  Identity Verified
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Okay... Mar 5

Okay, so he's either something like a super troll who even creates a LinkedIn profile or he's real after all.

Thomas T. Frost
 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
הולנד
Local time: 04:27
חבר (2006)
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+ ...
On whether Brian is just a troll Mar 5

Robin LEPLUMEY wrote:
I actually found a corresponding LinkedIn profile...


The discrepancies are marked, however. The LinkedIn profile states that Brian has an MA in Fine Arts at Aix-Marseille University, but he somehow achieved this in just 3 years (2003-2006). On his CV, however, he says that he has achieved a BA in Fine Arts at that same institution in 3 years (2005-2008). According to his CV, between 2003 and 2005 he was at the Liverpool John Moores University, studying arts.

What nails it for me is the fact that Brian's profile page at Saatchiart.com is over 2 years old, so as a person, "Brian Joyce" isn't fake. Also, his CV paints a believable picture of a young man willing to get his hands dirty (pipe fitter, etc.) in order to appreciate the finer things in life (fine art, print art and photography), who is now trying to branch out to his new love for language.



[Edited at 2020-03-05 09:50 GMT]


 

Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
איטליה
Local time: 04:27
חבר
מאיטלקית לאנגלית
Something's not right Mar 5

Hmm. So you say

Brian Joyce wrote:
there are few who have done what I have done with so little to do it with


and

Brian Joyce wrote:
I think that I am too too talented to be ignored by agency staffers


and

Brian Joyce wrote:
my incredible talents


yet

Brian Joyce wrote:
why do I find it hard to find work ?


I hope the answer to this last question is clear to you at this point.

You also say

Brian Joyce wrote:
Clients expect a professional service but how do they know their getting it from Mr. freshly laundered who has little to offer in the way of understanding of sub text


You appear to think clients are not getting professional service from your "freshly laundered" peers. You clearly think they can get it from you, but if you're "finding it hard to get work", then that is obviously not the case. You have to change something if you want to start getting work, because for all your bluster, you're not where you want to be.

Food for thought...


Dan Lucas
 

Zibow Retailleau  Identity Verified
מאוריציוס
Local time: 06:27
חבר (2019)
מאנגלית לסינית
+ ...
@Brian Mar 5

I don't doubt your passion for translation but unfortunately that alone will not generate a successful or even a sustainable career. As it was pointed out previously in this post, it appears that you really need to improve your language skills.

Besides language skills, you might want to work on your interpersonal skills as well. If you do possess all these 'incredible talents', you are strong enough to respect others. Wording like 'mickey mouse degree' and 'coke bill' gives me the i
... See more
I don't doubt your passion for translation but unfortunately that alone will not generate a successful or even a sustainable career. As it was pointed out previously in this post, it appears that you really need to improve your language skills.

Besides language skills, you might want to work on your interpersonal skills as well. If you do possess all these 'incredible talents', you are strong enough to respect others. Wording like 'mickey mouse degree' and 'coke bill' gives me the impression that you are in fact very jealous of people with a degree.

Lastly, from a pure subjective point of view, please don't abuse commas: you are not José Saramago.
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Kay Denney
P.L.F.Persio
 

Brian Joyce  Identity Verified
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You have to change something if you want to start getting work, because for all your bluster, you're Mar 5

Well excuse me all over the place. Anyone here ever heard the expression "beat the grass, shake up the snakes" no clearly not.

[Edited at 2020-03-05 12:41 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-03-05 12:44 GMT]


 

Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
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Local time: 10:27
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Psst Mar 5

Don't pay attention to a word of what they're saying. They're just jealous that you get to have so much more free time than they do!

Brian Joyce
Robin LEPLUMEY
Chris S
Robert Rietvelt
 
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