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estimating my worth
מפרסם התגובה: Brian Joyce

Mervyn Henderson  Identity Verified
ספרד
Local time: 04:38
חבר
מספרדית לאנגלית
+ ...
Cue ... Mar 9

... mad rush to profile.

[Edited at 2020-03-09 15:57 GMT]


P.L.F.Persio
 

Robin LEPLUMEY
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Local time: 04:38
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+ ...
Humility Mar 9

Brian Joyce wrote:
I challenge anyone to find fault with it. So happy hunting and enjoy yourselves.


The use of commas, to begin with? Plus numerous other mistakes, ommissions and style issues. I don't want to be mean, but now I really hope that you're a troll. Otherwise, I suggest you learn a little humility, for the sake of you and others.


P.L.F.Persio
Thomas T. Frost
 

Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:38
חבר (2006)
מספרדית להולנדית
+ ...
Not a troll Mar 9

Robin LEPLUMEY wrote:

Brian Joyce wrote:
I challenge anyone to find fault with it. So happy hunting and enjoy yourselves.


The use of commas, to begin with? Plus numerous other mistakes, ommissions and style issues. I don't want to be mean, but now I really hope that you're a troll. Otherwise, I suggest you learn a little humility, for the sake of you and others.


I don't think he is a troll, he is real. The question here is: 'Is he 'for real'? Looks like he is pulling our legs (although I fail to see the sense of it).

[Edited at 2020-03-09 16:36 GMT]


Thomas T. Frost
 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
חבר (2014)
מדנית לאנגלית
+ ...
Full of mistakes Mar 9

Typos:
supiriority
masculin
hoe (should have said 'how').

Punctuation:
A disaster.

Meaning (examples):
'maintenant que l’Académie française a accepté, sans imposer, leur emploi'
does not mean
'now that the Academie francaise has accepted not to impose itself on their use',
but
'now that the Académie Française has accepted their use without making it mandatory'.

'sur la const
... See more
Typos:
supiriority
masculin
hoe (should have said 'how').

Punctuation:
A disaster.

Meaning (examples):
'maintenant que l’Académie française a accepté, sans imposer, leur emploi'
does not mean
'now that the Academie francaise has accepted not to impose itself on their use',
but
'now that the Académie Française has accepted their use without making it mandatory'.

'sur la construction du féminin'
does not mean
'on the construction of woman'.
It refers to the feminine grammatical gender.

'Dans le second, on remet en cause l’une des règles fondamentales de la langue française'
does not mean
'Secondly, we have re-examined one of the fundamental rules of the French language',
but
'In the second (case), one of the fundamental rules of the French language is challenged.'

And so on. I didn’t have the courage to continue reading.

This is a massacre of French and English. But since you won’t listen, just go ahead and do as you please.
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Kay Denney
P.L.F.Persio
 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
הולנד
Local time: 04:38
חבר (2006)
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+ ...
@Brian Mar 9

Brian Joyce wrote:
I have just uploaded "The superiority of the masculine over the feminine" to my sample translations. It says what I've been saying all along, it is my finest translation work and I challenge anyone to find fault with it.


There are many different approaches to reviewing translation, but in your case I have chosen the method of first reviewing the translation without looking at the source text, and only compare it to the source text as the final step. Step 1 is to fix grammar, spelling, punctuation and the most glaring issues. Step 2 is to beautify the text. I have chosen to edit somewhat more aggressively at step 2, with the assumption that the translation would likely be used in the popular press as opposed to e.g. an academic journal, but a conservative approach would also have been valid. Step 3 compares the reviewed text against the source text to ensure that there are no translation errors.

It is at the third step that the reviewer may realise that some of his earlier edits need to be revisited. Since we assume that the translation is for publication in a similar medium, a greater degree of deviation from the source text may be tolerated, although I have opted for a stricter approach.

Take note: I'm not a native English speaker, I don't understand French at all (so... Google Translate to the rescue at step 3), and literary translation isn't my specialty. All criticism welcome. I acknowledge that different decisions are likely, for example: it may be equally valid to exclude the French words altogether, and do as Brian has done by including only the English terms "author" and "authoress".

auteur thing

(Click here for bigger image.)




[Edited at 2020-03-09 17:16 GMT]


Jorge Payan
Kay Denney
P.L.F.Persio
 

Dulz  Identity Verified
גרמניה
מצרפתית לגרמנית
+ ...
Joke Mar 9

Dulz wrote:

Of course it's a joke. It's more than obvious. Two Four pages of discussion for nothing...




Robin LEPLUMEY
Robert Rietvelt
 

Kay Denney  Identity Verified
צרפת
Local time: 04:38
חבר (2018)
מצרפתית לאנגלית
. Mar 9

I wholly agree with your comments Samuel and Thomas, and would go even further in the criticism. For example "Traveller words" is rather ambiguous (like, is this a phrase book?). "Travelling words" might work better.

But even before wading into the nitty-gritty, I take issue with the article's offensive title. The vast majority of people assigning translations, whether in agencies or direct client firms, are women. Such an offensive choice may be due to the total lack of discernmen
... See more
I wholly agree with your comments Samuel and Thomas, and would go even further in the criticism. For example "Traveller words" is rather ambiguous (like, is this a phrase book?). "Travelling words" might work better.

But even before wading into the nitty-gritty, I take issue with the article's offensive title. The vast majority of people assigning translations, whether in agencies or direct client firms, are women. Such an offensive choice may be due to the total lack of discernment Brian has already amply demonstrated here. I'm rather more inclined to believe that it confirms the troll theory.

But why bother Brian with any of this? Sample translations are there to show potential clients what a translator can do, and his level of talent and tact shines through very clearly here. It's up to clients to do their homework now.

[Edited at 2020-03-09 18:47 GMT]
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Zibow Retailleau
Sheila Wilson
P.L.F.Persio
Robert Rietvelt
 

Brian Joyce  Identity Verified
הממלכה המאוחדת
מצרפתית לאנגלית


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TOPIC STARTER
Linguistic authority and its detractors Mar 9

I will have more tomorrow, but for the time being suffice it to say T Frost I almost entirely disagree with you, your translation looks more like a legal document, it is a newspaper article. Also I am absolutely astonished that not one of you managed to pick up on the subject of the article. Look at what Marie says about the eyes, ears and mind all concurring, that is how language works. I believe she was hinting at post structuralist thinking.
Anyway more tomorrow. Sorry the title off
... See more
I will have more tomorrow, but for the time being suffice it to say T Frost I almost entirely disagree with you, your translation looks more like a legal document, it is a newspaper article. Also I am absolutely astonished that not one of you managed to pick up on the subject of the article. Look at what Marie says about the eyes, ears and mind all concurring, that is how language works. I believe she was hinting at post structuralist thinking.
Anyway more tomorrow. Sorry the title offended some.
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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
הולנד
Local time: 04:38
חבר (2006)
מאנגלית לאפריקאנס
+ ...
@Brian, how to win "friends" and influence people Mar 10

Kay Denney wrote:
I take issue with the article's offensive title [("The superiority of the masculine over the feminine")]. The vast majority of people assigning translations, whether in agencies or direct client firms, are women.


I'm not sure if Kay is trying to say that she finds the title offensive, but I agree with what she hints at: the sample texts in the portfolio are meant to win the hearts of potential clients, so you have to (a) use texts whose content is unlikely to offend the sensibilities of anyone, (b) use texts that will be easily understood by people who can't speak the source language, and (c) label the sample in a neutral, descriptive way.

This means, firstly, that you must avoid using samples that mention or are about controversial, political or non-neutral issues that large numbers of people have strong, emotional views over. You chose an article that not only references feminism but also relates to gender equality, and what's more, the article does not champion or appease the majority view on those issues. The fact that both the article's author and the interviewee are women doesn't do anything to tip the scale. It is a bad text to use as a sample translation in your portfolio.

Secondly, I'm sure someone who knows the French language well and who can appreciate the intricacies of French linguistics will be impressed by the inventive ways that you have dealt with elements of the text that are often considered untranslatable, but such people are not your target buyers. The things that impress linguistics professors are not the same things that impress publishers and project managers who are looking for a reliable fit.

Finally, while labeling the article "The superiority of the masculine over the feminine" is not, in itself, offensive -- it certainly is careless. I'm sure you meant to say "Whether the masculine is superior over the feminine", which is fine and which would be one of many possible accurate ways of summarizing the text. However, using the phrasing "The superiority of the masculine over the feminine" implies that the article is about a viewpoint that already says that the masculine is better than the feminine, and not about the question of whether it is so.

(And I'm sure some people would disagree that this question is even one of the main questions posed by the article, but I'm personally satisfied that it is at least *one* of the questions posed in the article and that it is therefore not entirely misplaced to use this question as the label of the text. Still, a title like "The position of the feminine in modern French" or "The impact of using the masculine in French" would kick up less dust.)

Added: Okay, I have now read up on Nicolas Beauzée, and it sheds new light on Brian's choice for the sample's label. It is Mr Beauzée who spoke about "the superiority of the masculine over the feminine", and this phrase is even quoted in the article itself by Mrs Treps in a neutral kind of way. But that still doesn't make it a good label. Only readers who are familiar with the history of French linguistics or who have already read the sample text will understand that you're using a doubly intertextual reference as a label. It's all very post-structuralist, but... when promoting your services, think about who your buyers are.


[Edited at 2020-03-10 09:19 GMT]


Kay Denney
Sheila Wilson
P.L.F.Persio
 

Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:38
חבר (2006)
מספרדית להולנדית
+ ...
Now I am sure Mar 10

Brian Joyce wrote:

I will have more tomorrow, but for the time being suffice it to say T Frost I almost entirely disagree with you, your translation looks more like a legal document.................................................
Anyway more tomorrow.


The guy is a fake. Just read what he is writing ("more tomorrow"), and the rest of his answers..... He is feeding us!

But please go on with this thread, very amusing.


Thomas T. Frost
Sheila Wilson
 

Mervyn Henderson  Identity Verified
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Local time: 04:38
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Like Chris S said ... Mar 10

... on page 3 of this thread. We might have a Dual of the Titans on our hands if GT kicks in too.

 

Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
הממלכה המאוחדת
Local time: 03:38
חבר (2014)
מיפנית לאנגלית
The problem I have had for several years now... Mar 10

Robert Rietvelt wrote:
The guy is a fake.

...is that it is increasingly hard to distinguish between trolls and those people who are just utterly unable to calibrate for their surroundings.

Dan


Sheila Wilson
 

Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:38
חבר (2006)
מספרדית להולנדית
+ ...
@Dan Mar 10

Dan Lucas wrote:

Robert Rietvelt wrote:
The guy is a fake.

...is that it is increasingly hard to distinguish between trolls and those people who are just utterly unable to calibrate for their surroundings.

Dan


True, but please have a look at my comments on page 3 of this thread (and the comments of Lincoln on page 1 for that matter), and then have a look at who gave me an 'Agree'. Sorry to say so, but somebody in his right state of mind wouldn't do that.

The guy is fooling us.

[Edited at 2020-03-10 12:02 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-03-10 16:14 GMT]


Thomas T. Frost
 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
ספרד
Local time: 03:38
חבר (2007)
אנגלית
+ ...
Whichever it is... Mar 10

Dan Lucas wrote:
it is increasingly hard to distinguish between trolls and those people who are just utterly unable to calibrate for their surroundings.

I've wasted enough time on this. I'm bowing out, as I should have done on page one. I'm fully prepared to spend time helping those who want to be helped to get established, but I feel we're all being taken advantage of here.


Thomas T. Frost
Robert Rietvelt
Kevin Fulton
 

Mervyn Henderson  Identity Verified
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Local time: 04:38
חבר
מספרדית לאנגלית
+ ...
Life of Brian Mar 10

Robert, maybe there's simply another lad on site who agreed with you. With the same photo. Or it could be his alter ego. Or he could have a dual personality. Or both of them could.

I think everyone has come to the conclusion that, like asking Jimmy Savile to come round and look after the sprogs for the evening, no good can possibly come of engaging this translator's professional services. Still, it's been a good larf.


Kevin Fulton
P.L.F.Persio
Chris S
 
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