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how to get my first job here?
מפרסם התגובה: Rosannelei

Rosannelei
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Jul 25

I am new on proz, I just finished my profile. I am trying to get my first job here. But I have some questions:

1, I think in order to find jobs, I should get to Jobs&directories->'Browse jobs' to search, right?

2, I saw many 'outsourcer has chosen to be contacted via email.' how could I know the outsourcer is trustworth? if there is a way that I can check the reputation of the oursourcer?

3, For payment, I saw one example here:
Payment method: To be
... See more
I am new on proz, I just finished my profile. I am trying to get my first job here. But I have some questions:

1, I think in order to find jobs, I should get to Jobs&directories->'Browse jobs' to search, right?

2, I saw many 'outsourcer has chosen to be contacted via email.' how could I know the outsourcer is trustworth? if there is a way that I can check the reputation of the oursourcer?

3, For payment, I saw one example here:
Payment method: To be agreed Check your payment preferences
Payment terms: 60 days from the invoice date.
a. Does that mean I need to negotiate with every potential client to find a suitable payment for both of us? Is there a default payment on proz?
b. For example, if we(client and me) agreed to use paypal, so should I request the fund before I start the project or after I finish the project? If I finish the project, but I did not get the payment from client, how should I do?

4. I have worked in UpWork. Is that possible I can show my client the work history in UpWork? If so, how could I do?

5, Any other suggestions on how to get the first job on proz?

Thanks very much!
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Yoana Ivanova
 

Yoana Ivanova  Identity Verified
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just my experience Jul 25

1. Jobs in your language pairs should be showing up on the home page. Check those regularly.

2. That's what the Blue Board is for. When you click on any job, you should also see a numerical rating on a scale of 1 to 5 and below that "see Blue Board entries". There you will find feedback from others who have worked for this outsourcer. Watch out for complaints about delayed or not received payments.

Also, browse through the forum on scams, make sure you know the popula
... See more
1. Jobs in your language pairs should be showing up on the home page. Check those regularly.

2. That's what the Blue Board is for. When you click on any job, you should also see a numerical rating on a scale of 1 to 5 and below that "see Blue Board entries". There you will find feedback from others who have worked for this outsourcer. Watch out for complaints about delayed or not received payments.

Also, browse through the forum on scams, make sure you know the popular ones and what kind of red flags to watch out for.

3. Since you'll be working internationally, you are likely to be paid most often via PayPal or Payoneer or something similar. You can also look into the system Proz has set up for payments, I'm personally not familiar with it.

Different outsourcers have different payment terms, most often that's 30 days after you send your invoice and sometimes invoices are sent at the end of the month. I personally wouldn't agree to a term of 60 days, it's too long of a wait. I've occasionally agreed to 45 days but I try to avoid that as well now.

There are very few agencies who would agree to pay you in advance. They do exist, but I wouldn't count on it, especially if you're just starting out. It's a different story with direct clients.

4. As for Upwork, perhaps you can screenshot any feedback you have and add it to your bio? Or send a link to your profile whenever people ask you about previous experience? Add the link to your CV?

5. Kudoz questions. Those should also be on the home page. These are terminology questions from fellow translators. Your rank in the directory depends largely on how many Kudoz points you have. The directory is how clients find you and contact you directly and is the best way to get new good clients on Proz.

Browse the questions daily, set up notifications for them as well. Make sure you give good answers with sources in the fields you work in. That way you have a chance to help a colleague out of a jam and to be awarded the points if your answer is chosen. It gets a bit too competitive sometimes though.

Contact any previous clients and ask them for feedback on your Proz profile. There's an option to send them an email directly from Proz with a link they can click.
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Christine Andersen
Sheila Wilson
Samuel Murray
Aline Amorim
Rosannelei
Philippe Etienne
Aurélie TRAPP
 

Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
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Local time: 02:10
חבר (2003)
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Expand your profile and make yourself visible Jul 25

Some of the best jobs come from people who find you, which is why it is important to take part in KudoZ and get the best place you can in the directories.

Add as much information as you can to your profile, especially in the bio and keywords sections. This will lead clients to you when they are searching for a specialist in a particular subject area.

Mention any hobbies and personal interests you may have real knowledge of - what is a hobby for some people is serious in
... See more
Some of the best jobs come from people who find you, which is why it is important to take part in KudoZ and get the best place you can in the directories.

Add as much information as you can to your profile, especially in the bio and keywords sections. This will lead clients to you when they are searching for a specialist in a particular subject area.

Mention any hobbies and personal interests you may have real knowledge of - what is a hobby for some people is serious international business for others! Sports, for instance? (You don´t have to be a brilliant player, you simply need to know about the equipment, the ´game´and techniques, and the special language.)

I have landed translations about knitting and about food, nutrition and menus because people knew I was interested.

Meet other translators, either face-to-face or at virtual events. Make an impression. Good colleagues have referred clients to me when they were unable to take on the job themselves. When they are too busy, they work in a different language pair or subject area, or are on holiday, they have been glad to help a good client.

Good luck!

[Edited at 2020-07-25 09:23 GMT]
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Sheila Wilson
Yoana Ivanova
Aline Amorim
Rosannelei
expressisverbis
Philippe Etienne
 

Vanda Nissen  Identity Verified
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Local time: 10:10
חבר (2008)
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Some work on your profile is required Jul 25

I agree with Christine - you need to expand your profile. When you write that you specialise in medical translations, you need to make it clear for your reader why you chose it as your specialisation: perhaps, you studied medicine or worked in this area. At the moment, it is not clear.

Yoana is right - Kudoz is also good for making yourself visible. Firstly, it feels good when you help others, secondly, it also helps to build a network. Eventually, your colleagues will remember your
... See more
I agree with Christine - you need to expand your profile. When you write that you specialise in medical translations, you need to make it clear for your reader why you chose it as your specialisation: perhaps, you studied medicine or worked in this area. At the moment, it is not clear.

Yoana is right - Kudoz is also good for making yourself visible. Firstly, it feels good when you help others, secondly, it also helps to build a network. Eventually, your colleagues will remember your name and may recommend you for the next project.
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Sheila Wilson
Yoana Ivanova
Christine Andersen
Rosannelei
expressisverbis
Rachel Waddington
sajad neisi
 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
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Local time: 01:10
חבר (2007)
אנגלית
+ ...
A few details to add to the good advice already received Jul 25

Rosannelei wrote:
1, I think in order to find jobs, I should get to Jobs&directories->'Browse jobs' to search, right?

You can get ProZ.com to send you notifications of jobs of particular interest. Then you can apply immediately. Update your notifications dashboard relating to jobs, forums and KudoZ questions -- it's on your profile page.

2, I saw many 'outsourcer has chosen to be contacted via email.' how could I know the outsourcer is trustworth? if there is a way that I can check the reputation of the oursourcer?

You have experience of freelancing so I imagine you're already aware of the terms "due diligence" and "risk management". Check clients out every way you can think of, depending on how much you stand to lose and what your gut is telling you about them. I never accept urgent jobs from new clients because I won't rush my due diligence -- that's the way to get scammed. Visit the Scam Centre and sign up to get notifications of new scams.

3, For payment

Unlike Upwork, ProZ.com doesn't get involved at all in negotiations with clients (nor in payment, unless you and the client agree to it, with the new ProZ Payment facility). This is really just a meeting place. Clients, especially agencies, may have their own T&C, but so should you. Sometimes, when the two aren't identical, you can negotiate an agreement; sometimes you can't so you just have to walk away. Check out "Community rates" in the Tools tab -- it's a statistical summary of the rates we say we accept, so it's a useful guide but nothing more. There is no single market rate in translation and there are people here asking anything from a very few euro/dollar cents per word to €/$ 0.20 or more.

5, Any other suggestions on how to get the first job on proz?

- Respond to posted jobs as promptly as possible. Make it clear in your quote that it isn't a binding offer of service, so you can do some of the risk management after sending the quote. But at least check the BB and the client's website before quoting to save wasting time.
- Make your quotes as personalised as possible, full of interesting and necessary detail but as short as possible too.
- Be especially ready to take jobs on a Friday or before a public holiday, when there might be fewer people interested.
- Contact some agencies that you think might be particularly interested in your services, even if they aren't advertising a job.
- Remember that if it seems too good to be true, it's probably not true . As a newbie here, even though you aren't a new freelancer, you'll be targeted by scammers.
- As others have said, many of the better jobs never get posted on the public board, so be active on the site to improve your directory position and your overall visibility. Translation clients come in all sorts of guises. I recently posted in a forum here about translating song lyrics and immediately got contacted via my profile by a musician, who is now a client .


Yoana Ivanova
Christine Andersen
Aline Amorim
Rosannelei
Jean Dimitriadis
expressisverbis
Jorge Payan
 

Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:10
מצרפתית לאנגלית
Proz is like "real" life Jul 25

Most of jobs available here are not on the jobs board. I've been on Proz since 2003, with a period off. The level of my activity varies. However, the work I have obtained ia ProZ has been through contact with other members. Active participation in KudoZ is a great way of learning how others work and therefore of acquiring new skills. This can happen at any time in your career. Indeed, it should be happening all the time. KudoZ is also an excellent way to meet people virtually and to showcase you... See more
Most of jobs available here are not on the jobs board. I've been on Proz since 2003, with a period off. The level of my activity varies. However, the work I have obtained ia ProZ has been through contact with other members. Active participation in KudoZ is a great way of learning how others work and therefore of acquiring new skills. This can happen at any time in your career. Indeed, it should be happening all the time. KudoZ is also an excellent way to meet people virtually and to showcase your skills. In concrete terms, that is how I found work through ProZ.Collapse


Aline Amorim
Christine Andersen
Rosannelei
sajad neisi
Tanami
 

Paul Dixon  Identity Verified
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Local time: 21:10
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+ ...
You're going to need a lot of luck Jul 25

The market is the worst it has ever been, with some jobs receiving 500 quotes or even more. And KudoZ questions get answered in a matter of minutes. So you're going to need a lot of luck.

Po7
Rosannelei
 

Paul Dixon  Identity Verified
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Local time: 21:10
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Active on the site, still no work Jul 25

I have followed Sheila's advice but still no work. And KudoZ points very hard to get, unless you don't sleep.

Po7
 

Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
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@Paul Jul 26

You don't lack Kudoz points, you lack a ProZ membership to leverage your Kudoz points. Otherwise they almost go to waste. Any Kudoz-less paid member comes above you in the proverbial food chain of translator directory searches.

And you seem to lack a more conducive mentality, but that's a whole other topic. Maybe with a different perspective... different results...


Sheila Wilson
Christine Andersen
Chris S
Rosannelei
Yoana Ivanova
expressisverbis
Jorge Payan
 

Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
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Local time: 08:10
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It's not always obvious why people succeed... Jul 27

Jean Dimitriadis wrote:

You don't lack Kudoz points, you lack a ProZ membership to leverage your Kudoz points. Otherwise they almost go to waste. Any Kudoz-less paid member comes above you in the proverbial food chain of translator directory searches.

And you seem to lack a more conducive mentality, but that's a whole other topic. Maybe with a different perspective... different results...

...but it's usually pretty obvious why they fail.

[Edited at 2020-07-27 03:55 GMT]


Jean Dimitriadis
 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
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Local time: 02:10
חבר (2006)
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Hmm, disagree Jul 27

Lincoln Hui wrote:
Jean Dimitriadis wrote:
Maybe with a different perspective... different results...

It's not always obvious why people succeed, but it's usually pretty obvious why they fail.

I disagree. Attitude has nothing to do with success in getting a foot in the door. Attitude may affect landing a job after a client showed interest, or getting additional jobs from the same client, but the problem faced by Paul and the OP is being spotted by a client in the first place. Paul can improve the odds of being chosen by a client who's seen him (e.g. update his résumé and change his web site) but from the other posts in this forum it appears that he certainly is trying to get them to see him to begin with. It is pure luck whether your details land on a PM's desk or in file 13 (which is why the best strategy is to contact, contact, contact).

[Edited at 2020-07-27 07:02 GMT]


Rita Pang
 

Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
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  Jul 27

My second comment was more general (but regarding a specific poster, the one above me). Anyway, it is not just a numbers game.

No matter how many times you bang your head against the wall, it won't budge.

If you want to get past the wall, you'd better find another way around it.

Sure, you can always focus on hopeless, ineffective actions. Like always asking yourself and in the forums "Why this, Why that" (Well, if a job application page returns a 404 error,
... See more
My second comment was more general (but regarding a specific poster, the one above me). Anyway, it is not just a numbers game.

No matter how many times you bang your head against the wall, it won't budge.

If you want to get past the wall, you'd better find another way around it.

Sure, you can always focus on hopeless, ineffective actions. Like always asking yourself and in the forums "Why this, Why that" (Well, if a job application page returns a 404 error, I'd take the hint they don't need more translators at this stage), or keep repeating on every occasion that the "situation in Brazil is very bad" (so don't take it personally and just focus on what you can do at your level). Like brushing up your polyglot skills in languages that you'll never use professionally. Like considering taking up... transcription, of all linguistic services. Like keep quoting to an inordinate amount of jobs in the job board, after the waiting period for non-members has lapsed... Like keep playing the "KudoZ" game when your kudoz points won't make any difference whatsoever, since you are not a member.

Plus, our attitude transpires in our professional communications. To get your foot in the door, you want to avoid kicking the bucket.

With Paul's KudoZ points, being a member would mean appear in the FIRST PAGE (just short of top 10) for Portuguese to English translators. That's a HUGE passive marketing potential right there. Just sit back and relax. It may not land a collaboration tomorrow, but I would be VERY surprised if the investment didn't pay handsomely in the long run. Plus any quoting for the job board would be accessible from the get go (no waiting time to quote).

Anyway, enough hijacking this thread, sorry and good luck to the OP.

[Edited at 2020-07-27 09:11 GMT]
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Sheila Wilson
expressisverbis
Christel Zipfel
Rachel Waddington
Katalin Horváth McClure
 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
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Local time: 01:10
חבר (2007)
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+ ...
Those are the two tremendous advantages that apply to every member Jul 27

Jean Dimitriadis wrote:
being a member would mean appear in the FIRST PAGE (just short of top 10) for Portuguese to English translators. That's a HUGE passive marketing potential right there. Just sit back and relax. It may not land a collaboration tomorrow, but I would be VERY surprised if the investment didn't pay handsomely in the long run. Plus any quoting for the job board would be accessible from the get go (no waiting time to quote).

-- As a non-paying user in a pair with, say, 500 paying members, the best you can ever hope for is to be in position 501 in the directory.
-- As a non-paying user, you can never quote for jobs that (a) ask for quotes within the ProZ.com system or (b) restrict quoting to members. For those jobs that ask for email quotes and don't specify restrictions, you still (always, normally, sometimes -- I'm not sure) have to wait until quoting has been open to paying members for 12 hours. Most job posters will have found a perfect match well before that time.


Yoana Ivanova
Jean Dimitriadis
Samuel Murray
Katalin Horváth McClure
 

Yoana Ivanova  Identity Verified
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Local time: 03:10
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@Paul Jul 27

Paul Dixon wrote:

I have followed Sheila's advice but still no work. And KudoZ points very hard to get, unless you don't sleep.


Others have already said the same thing, but anyway. You have a lot of Kudoz points. I'm not sure if it means first page in the directory, but it sure might.

In my experience, the best clients you will get on Proz won't come from quoting on jobs. They will search the directory, will rarely ever go past the first page, and will pick a translator or several to get in touch with.

If you're not a paying member, chances are no one will find your profile and contact you directly. I understand that things are tight right now, but the membership pays for itself many times over.


Sheila Wilson
 

Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
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The image Jul 27

Samuel Murray wrote:

Lincoln Hui wrote:
Jean Dimitriadis wrote:
Maybe with a different perspective... different results...

It's not always obvious why people succeed, but it's usually pretty obvious why they fail.

I disagree. Attitude has nothing to do with success in getting a foot in the door. Attitude may affect landing a job after a client showed interest, or getting additional jobs from the same client, but the problem faced by Paul and the OP is being spotted by a client in the first place. Paul can improve the odds of being chosen by a client who's seen him (e.g. update his résumé and change his web site) but from the other posts in this forum it appears that he certainly is trying to get them to see him to begin with. It is pure luck whether your details land on a PM's desk or in file 13 (which is why the best strategy is to contact, contact, contact).

[Edited at 2020-07-27 07:02 GMT]

I'm going to speak in general terms, so that the OP can take from it what they may, or choose not to.

There are a lot of impressions that you can garner about someone, and they inform your opinion as to whether this person is capable of succeeding, and whether you want to try to help them succeed at all.

Does this person have initiative? Do they think independently? Do they take action? When they need to get into a building, will they go around the building to find the door on their own, or wait for someone to show them the door? If you showed them the door, will that person know to open the door and walk through it, or would they sit there and wait for you to show them how to open the door as well? Does this person look like someone who is going to be able to handle a complex challenge, or do they look like they are likely to squeal and panic?

Does this person have creativity? Do they recognize the need for creativity, or do they sound like a broken record wherever they go? Does what they say or do look like there was a thought process behind it?

Is this person capable of helping themselves, or at least capable of being helped? How do they ask for help, and how do they respond to help? When they are given advice, do they promptly and energetically act upon it, or do they give the impression of a lethargic shrug? When they are given very specific, very actionable advice, do they accept that advice and take action, or do they say "But why?" and never pay another heed?

Does this person have a pragmatic outlook? Do they understand certain realities about life and business? Are they capable of making the logical connection between cause and effect? Do they recognize the need for flexibility and change when things are not going well, or do they look like a domestic animal that has been too comfortable for too long, and wonder where the feed bowl is when it is released into the wild?

These are all crucial traits for this profession. Having all of these traits doesn't guarantee success, and I'm sure there are people who succeed despite missing one or more of them…but you look at the people who are failing, and they are almost always lacking in one or more of these areas. Sometimes all of them. There are a lot of posts here asking for help who are obviously not putting in any effort, they're not asking specific questions, they're just looking up with open mouths waiting for mama bird to feed them. What do you do with people who do the exact same thing over and over and over and over and over again, and each time they're showing you the exact same thing with no signs of improvement or actually understanding the advice that has already been given to them? Do they even deserve to be helped? Why bother giving advice when that advice has already been given, more than once, and has already proven to simply bounce off?

The bottom line is, you have to give people a reason to want to hire you when they look at your profile. You have to give the impression that you are a competent professional, whom I can give my important document to, and trust that you will get the job done efficiently and capably. You have to give the impression that if I need help, you are on top of it and then some, and I never have to worry whether I'm going to get a half-butted effort. Some people have profiles that you look at and say, maybe I can hire this person. Other people have profiles that you look at and say, I'm definitely not hiring this person if they're the last translator left on earth.


Jean Dimitriadis
Chris S
Katalin Horváth McClure
Jan Truper
Dan Lucas
 
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