Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] >
Is $ 0.05 per source word a "fair amount" for translators?
Thread poster: Chiara Deaglio
Miroslav Jeftic
Miroslav Jeftic  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:18
Member (2009)
English to Serbian
+ ...
:) Sep 24, 2014

Michal Fabian wrote:

No need to take it amiss, it's not far from the truth, at least in some cases. For example, if the average monthly salary in a country is $500 or thereabouts, nobody is going to pay you $300 for 10 pages of translation or $500 for a day of interpretation, you can forget about it.


I'm a resident of Slovakia, where the average monthly salary is about 800 euro/month ('average' here meaning, of course, that many people make much less than that). Right now, I'm in Malaysia, which is dirt cheap. Yet I just handed in a project of cca. 11 pages for 330 euro today. How did that happen?

a) black magic
b) pure luck
c) effective marketing, lots of hard work, identifying my unique selling point, lots of hard work, continuous professional development, lots of hard work, and treating my business as... well, business.

It's not impossible. It's not nigh impossible. But, just like with everything else, you need to know what you're doing and why you're doing it.


Well, good for you then, I do congratulate you. It's certainly not impossible if everything comes together, but it's certainly not the average as some try to claim.


 
Michal Fabian
Michal Fabian  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 05:18
Dutch to Slovak
+ ...
Sorry... Sep 24, 2014

... I didn't realize you were aiming for 'average.'

 
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 10:18
English to Polish
+ ...
... Sep 24, 2014

Chiara Deaglio wrote:

Hi all!

I have just come across the site of a new US agency, which is currently recruiting new translator also here in one of my language combinations (EN-IT).

I read from their website that they "charge [their] customers $.06/source word to keep [their] prices competitive and pay you $.05 per source word!", adding that "if you find another translation agency that offers such a great deal to customers to help guarantee you work flow, while also paying you such a fair amount, please let us know".

Based on your experience (I am relatively new to the translation business), are telling the truth?

Is $ 0.05 per source word a "fair amount" for translators?

[Edited at 2014-09-15 16:23 GMT]


They probably meant to say that five out of six was a fair proportion, not that five was a fair amount in the abstract.


 
Kevin Fulton
Kevin Fulton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:18
German to English
Laws of economics still apply Sep 24, 2014

Rudolf Vedo CT wrote:

Unfortunately, the laws of economics have long-since been repealed in the translation market.


Quite simply, there's an oversupply of translators (and agencies!) in the middle and lower segments of the translation market. Until the advent of the Internet, prices were quite stable and there was growth in rates. Translators were considered "knowledge workers". Along with the increase in electronic communication, demand for translators grew exponentially, but at the same time, so did the supply. Judging by the proliferation of sites like Proz this century, growth on the supply side exceeded the demand side; the result is pressure on rates.

Gresham's Law (cheap money drives out dear money) also applies analogously to the translation business. Low prices put the squeeze on rates in the largest segments of the business.


what we're getting from cheaper translators is still 'good enough'


For clients with large volumes of email, daily reports, schedules, meeting agendas and other documents that are for informational purposes only, "good enough" is often adequate. They're not willing to pay a high rate to find out that the meeting next Tuesday has been canceled, and the previous extensive agenda no longer applies (this happened to a direct client of mine several years ago. A presentation he paid $700 for was scrapped on short notice when a new sales manager took over in Germany). The unfortunate consequence is that the customer expects to pay the same low rate for both email and engineering specifications. You can educate a direct customer, but it's a different story with agencies. Some try to inform their customers about the translation process, but unfortunately many agencies are only rate-oriented.


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:18
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Isn't that the real problem? Sep 24, 2014

Michal Fabian wrote:

... I didn't realize you were aiming for 'average.'

So many in our profession only ever seem to aim for average as the high-spot of their lives, even though many of them are providing top-quality translations.

If you're happy with what you get, that's fine. If you aren't, there's no point getting resentful about your lot in life if you never do anything to go out and grab better. Someone will always take advantage of you if you don't stand up for yourself, and stand out - that isn't just true of freelance translating.


 
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:18
English to German
+ ...
I don't accept inadequate rates, on principle. Sep 24, 2014

Just to be clear, Samuel

Samuel Murray wrote:

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
To work for rock-bottom rates because many others seem to be doing the same thing never worked for me. It doesn't even pay the bills.


What a strange thought... namely that people who work for rock-bottom rates do so because others do so.
But you're advocating the same thing, actually -- you say that others must work for high rates simply because you do too.


Lots of people are selling themselves too cheaply - that is a fact. There might be many reasons for it, but I am not willing to do that.

No one has to do anything I say. I try to encourage people not to let themselves be exploited.

Samuel Murray wrote:
Yes, low rates won't pay the bills, but high rates won't pay the bills either, if you don't get any work at those rates. And if you can't pay the bills, then you have too many bills and you're trying to live above your income.


If you think it's okay to work for low and even rock-bottom rates, even just occasionally, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion and can do whatever you want. If you think, and I don't know if you do, that accepting low and high rates is okay and you come out earning an average amount of money in the long run, then you have to work hard, especially for those low-paying jobs if it's those that you depend on, and I would say that the agencies who pay those low rates are exploiting you nevertheless. That I will not accept. I often suggest to newcomers to find additional fairly paid jobs to amend their income, but I will not help fill the pockets of people who thrive on translators who accept such horrendous rates. How can that square with professional business practices in our industry as a whole?! And how do you sleep at night knowing that someone has just exploited you and made a fine profit from it?


When I say decent or adequate rates, I am not talking about something unachievable. It is indeed possible for me - and I suggest for everyone who tries hard - to get decent and even excellent rates. I am not saying they are coming in like crazy. It hasn't been easy but I have always tried to stay away from exploitative people who "offer" you a rate that is ridiculous. Ask yourself what you're worth. Then try to "accept" an "inadequate" offer.
I can't and I won't. What I can offer to my clients must be paid adequately. And I know what is adequate. Anything else is unacceptable to me. The usual way I get new clients is that they contact me and then I suggest a price. Sometimes we can work things out, sometimes not. I won't go below my comfort threshold. It often helps if you tell your client why you charge the rate you charge. Many have no idea what a reasonable rate is for the work they want you to do.

Samuel Murray wrote:
You say "hold on to reasonable rates", and that is a fine idea for the privileged, but translation work is not about ideology -- it is about making a living and finding sufficient jobs to do so. Refusing all jobs that don't pay idealistic rates may grant one a high horse, but you can't eat that.


Again, I am not talking about something unachievable - in my experience - or something you call "ideology." Not holding on to reasonable rates would result in way too much excellent output for way too little money. And excellent work is what I am selling. I am not privileged, not by getting great offers all the time or because of where I live or because of my fields of expertise or because I am sitting on a heap of gold that I got from someone. Quite the opposite is true. It's not easy for me but I can't let myself be exploited. I would rather find another job or an additional job if I couldn't make translating a decent career.

The thought that I would sell my services for $ 0.05/word to an agency because I need some work when my work is worth much more than 2 and often 3 times that amount is not something I am willing to entertain. What you do is your own business.

But ... I am not, as you said above, "refusing all jobs that don't pay idealistic rates...," I am simply "refusing all jobs that don't pay adequate, decent rates.

[Edited at 2014-09-24 15:56 GMT]


 
Miroslav Jeftic
Miroslav Jeftic  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:18
Member (2009)
English to Serbian
+ ...
Ha Sep 24, 2014

Michal Fabian wrote:

... I didn't realize you were aiming for 'average.'


What I was aiming for isn't really important here, I was talking in general, of course there are always fringe cases, whether I'm one of them doesn't change much.

My gripe was that some people are making it sound like the only problem is that translators are not asking for more, and are accepting to work for peanuts, because I don't know, they like peanuts.

For example, I also do interpretation, and in general I charge around $40 to $50 per hour spent on client's location and will generally refuse anything below that. As a result, I'll do interpretation around once to twice per year - because there are plenty of people who will charge $100-$150 for the whole day of interpretation (8 hours or more), but that's fine, at this point I consider interpretation a sort of hobby, so if I don't get any work it doesn't really bother me. However, I'd think twice before I'd advise anyone in my language pair to ask for $50/h and to expect a great career in interpreting.


 
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:18
English to German
+ ...
Agree ... Sep 24, 2014

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Michal Fabian wrote:

... I didn't realize you were aiming for 'average.'

So many in our profession only ever seem to aim for average as the high-spot of their lives, even though many of them are providing top-quality translations.

If you're happy with what you get, that's fine. If you aren't, there's no point getting resentful about your lot in life if you never do anything to go out and grab better. Someone will always take advantage of you if you don't stand up for yourself, and stand out - that isn't just true of freelance translating.


..wholeheartedlyl!


 
Michael Beijer
Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:18
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Spot on! Sep 24, 2014

Kevin Fulton wrote:

Quite simply, there's an oversupply of translators (and agencies!) in the middle and lower segments of the translation market. Until the advent of the Internet, prices were quite stable and there was growth in rates. Translators were considered "knowledge workers". Along with the increase in electronic communication, demand for translators grew exponentially, but at the same time, so did the supply. Judging by the proliferation of sites like Proz this century, growth on the supply side exceeded the demand side; the result is pressure on rates.

Gresham's Law (cheap money drives out dear money) also applies analogously to the translation business. Low prices put the squeeze on rates in the largest segments of the business.


I completely agree with your analysis. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry with an internet connection and an old laptop seems to have joined our profession in the last couple of years, which has definitely been causing a little … friction here and there.

I do wonder though what this ‘largest segment of our business’ might actually be.

Kevin Lossner has a very interesting post about just this (and a few other things) over on his blog: http://www.translationtribulations.com/2014/08/post-slavery-bondage-and-poverty.html (make sure to also read the comments by Kevin Hendzel!)

In turn, Kevin Hendzel also has quite a bit to say about this in his own blog: http://www.kevinhendzel.com/it-was-the-best-of-times-it-was-the-worst-of-times-how-the-premium-market-offers-translators-prosperity-in-an-era-of-collapsing-bulk-market-rates/

Michael


 
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:18
English to German
+ ...
Don't let yourself be squeezed Sep 24, 2014

Michael Beijer wrote:

Kevin Fulton wrote:

...

Gresham's Law (cheap money drives out dear money) also applies analogously to the translation business. Low prices put the squeeze on rates in the largest segments of the business.



I completely agree with your analysis.
Michael


I am sorry but I am convinced that translators put the squeeze on themselves. And what does that mean anyway: "Low prices put the squeeze on rates in the larger segments." Whose low prices? Who's offering these? Who is accepting them? Well you know who.

It's people who quote/offer rates/prices, and they are called translators (who should do the quoting) and clients/middlemen (agencies) who need to be convinced that they're not the ones who should "offer" a price and expect to get it. But that's what happens. Too many translators acquiesce to rock-bottom prices. I am sure that's what you meant. Or are you suggesting that the middleman market (agencies) just dominates what anyone can charge?
And what are these larger segments you are talking about?

But I tell you that you can only do that for awhile - accepting these ridiculous offers. If you want to make translating a successful career, you need to find a way to do it in a professional way and accepting low-ball offers is not professional and not the way to go, and being scared of the huge market or large segments that somehow dominate rates is no solution either. And it really irks me when translators again and again seem to defend these low-balling agencies, directly or indirectly. I am not saying you do it directly because you seem to blame the market for it and the fact that every Dick, Harry ... etc joined our profession, but it doesn't help anyone who wants to be successful to just tell them that there is a squeeze on rates/prices, no matter which market segment - My recommendation: Don't let yourself be squeezed/exploited or find another job. Don't follow every Dick, Harry (sorry to anyone by that name, you know what I mean). Stand out, be proud. (IMHO)

[Edited at 2014-09-24 16:34 GMT]


 
Gabriele Demuth
Gabriele Demuth  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:18
English to German
I am reasonably new to the industry ... Sep 24, 2014

and have been working for $0.04 but could not always get that on certain websites. I have worked very hard but really, I would be much better off working at McDonalds.

I saw it as a practice but would like to earn a living as a translator now. So according to your replies here it might be worth becoming a member at Proz.com now and investing in some kind of translation aid.... and charging a rate nearer to what is recommended here for my language combination - would that be a fair p
... See more
and have been working for $0.04 but could not always get that on certain websites. I have worked very hard but really, I would be much better off working at McDonalds.

I saw it as a practice but would like to earn a living as a translator now. So according to your replies here it might be worth becoming a member at Proz.com now and investing in some kind of translation aid.... and charging a rate nearer to what is recommended here for my language combination - would that be a fair price to ask?
Collapse


 
Michael Beijer
Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:18
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
@Bernhard: Sep 24, 2014

Just because I think there are too many (not so great) translators around at the moment, and suspect that the recent increase in the amount of people who aren't really translators but are calling themselves translators has possibly led to a reduction in rates, this doesn't mean that I think that anyone should work for rates that are too low. Quite the contrary: I think we should all fight back against this trend and charge as much as we can get away with, obviously in ratio to how good we... See more
Just because I think there are too many (not so great) translators around at the moment, and suspect that the recent increase in the amount of people who aren't really translators but are calling themselves translators has possibly led to a reduction in rates, this doesn't mean that I think that anyone should work for rates that are too low. Quite the contrary: I think we should all fight back against this trend and charge as much as we can get away with, obviously in ratio to how good we are.

I know quite a few very good Dutch-English translators who are working for rates that are way too low. ‘How low is too low?’, I hear people ask. Well, I define too low as: anything that means you have to translate a ridiculous amount every day (7 days a week) and are still unable to make your mortgage payments or put something aside for a pension.

There are obviously many levels of quality being offered in our industry (see Kevin's remarks re: the ‘premium’ label), which is fine and as it should be, but problems arise when there are people working in your particular quality bracket, who are basically just as good as you, but who charge significantly less. That's when things start to rankle.

There are many reasons why other translators, who are just as good as me, might be charging less, and some of them are beyond anyone's control. However, there are also quite a few who are just doing it because they are uneducated and haven't yet realised that a lot of our industry is just a big scam. They might also be scared to ask for more, because they think they might not get it. It's these people that I hope discussions like these reach.

Part of the journey to becoming a ‘professional translator’ is working out exactly where you are located in the food chain, and charging accordingly. The more of us who realise that they are actually located higher than they originally thought, and start charging more as a result, the happier we will be as a group.

Michael

[Edited at 2014-09-24 17:22 GMT]

[Edited at 2014-09-24 17:27 GMT]
Collapse


 
Rasa Racevičiūtė
Rasa Racevičiūtė  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:18
Member (2010)
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
Cheap is the key Sep 24, 2014

The fact is that rates vary greatly per language pair. I'm Lithuanian - English translator living in the USA, have been in this business for 12 years, and used to love what I was doing until this year which turned out to be a very strange year. I've been losing my old, good, reliable clients one after another. Only because my rates are a tidbit higher than the ones that my colleagues living in Lithuania can offer. I recently received an offer to work for $0.02/word which, of course, I declined. ... See more
The fact is that rates vary greatly per language pair. I'm Lithuanian - English translator living in the USA, have been in this business for 12 years, and used to love what I was doing until this year which turned out to be a very strange year. I've been losing my old, good, reliable clients one after another. Only because my rates are a tidbit higher than the ones that my colleagues living in Lithuania can offer. I recently received an offer to work for $0.02/word which, of course, I declined. I could make more if I worked as a cashier at a local grocery store (and I told them so). I saw Lithuanian translators on some other site complaining about being overwhelmed and busting their assignments because, of course, you have to work 24/7 to make a living when working for rates that agencies are offering now to translators in Lithuania and you just can't keep up! I absolutely refuse to do any editing jobs because I got tired of correcting nonsensical translations that actually call for re-translating. The thing is, the market is so saturated with translators, clients and agencies don't care anymore if you're good or bad as long as you are cheap. And internet is a perfect tool for outsourcing the cheapest ones. I'm getting that feeling lately that it's probably time for me to leave this industry. I just don't see what I could change to stay in it with dignity.Collapse


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 10:18
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Gabriele Sep 24, 2014

Gabriele Demuth wrote:
I have been working for $0.04 but could not always get that on certain websites.


You've been working at Gengo.com which pays translators 3c per word. Sites like Gengo.com will always pay very low rates, because most of their translators are part-timers looking for pocket money.

What we're talking about in this thread is working for a translation agency, and they normally pay more than 3c per word. The original poster's agency paid 5c per word and claims that it was the "normal" rate for the United States, but that is untrue... 5c per word is not the normal agency rate for the United States.


 
Gabriele Demuth
Gabriele Demuth  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:18
English to German
Samuel Sep 25, 2014

Yes, I have signed up with Gengo.com too at $0.03 per word and have done quite a bit of work there. They also offer a pro-rate for $0.09 but I haven't attempted the test yet (might not pass it?). Maybe I should give it a go.

I start feeling very resentful when I accept jobs at these rates now, although I needed to gain some experience and get some feedback from clients ...

Otherwise I believe that the earnings or rates of a translator should reflect their skill level as
... See more
Yes, I have signed up with Gengo.com too at $0.03 per word and have done quite a bit of work there. They also offer a pro-rate for $0.09 but I haven't attempted the test yet (might not pass it?). Maybe I should give it a go.

I start feeling very resentful when I accept jobs at these rates now, although I needed to gain some experience and get some feedback from clients ...

Otherwise I believe that the earnings or rates of a translator should reflect their skill level as well as the level of education. Most translators, as far as I can judge, are educated people who have had another professional career. So why should people like that work for minimum wage or below? This is what I can achieve on sites like Elance or ODesk (it was a way in for me though). I did apply to agencies some months ago, but have not heard back from many, one suggested I set my rate at $0.035 per word?

As a next step, would it be a good plan to become a member here and set my rate at the lower end of what is recommended ($0.08 per word).
Collapse


 
Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Is $ 0.05 per source word a "fair amount" for translators?







TM-Town
Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business

Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.

More info »
Protemos translation business management system
Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!

The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.

More info »