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Complimentary TM-Town membership for ProZ.com members
Thread poster: Jared Tabor
Anna Spanoudaki-Thurm
Anna Spanoudaki-Thurm  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:51
German to Greek
+ ...
Giving it a try... Apr 17, 2016

Hello Kevin and Jared and all...

Congratulations, especially to the TM-town developers for the well designed and functional (although quite complicated) platform.
Deshi is the featured that convinced me to give TM-town a try and set up an account. Although I have no doubt that your intentions are good and that you really aim to protect the uploaded content, I am afraid that no system is 100% safe and I would never upload TMs or other documents containing confidential material.
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Hello Kevin and Jared and all...

Congratulations, especially to the TM-town developers for the well designed and functional (although quite complicated) platform.
Deshi is the featured that convinced me to give TM-town a try and set up an account. Although I have no doubt that your intentions are good and that you really aim to protect the uploaded content, I am afraid that no system is 100% safe and I would never upload TMs or other documents containing confidential material.
Question: Is uploading the Deshi result equivalent to uploading the TM itself?

Looking at the Deshi files, does the code in the end ensure that they are not manipulated? If not, what actions do you take to ensure that no manipulated files are uploaded?

And one technical question: How can I get the free "starter" account? When I try to upgrade, I am asked for my credit card data.

Thank you,
Anna
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..... (X)
..... (X)
Local time: 21:51
@Anna Apr 17, 2016

Hi Anna,

Thanks for giving it a try. Your account has already been upgraded to 'Starter', so you do not have to do anything or input any credit card data.

Question: Is uploading the Deshi result equivalent to uploading the TM itself?


Yes, Deshi is equivalent to uploading the TM itself in the sense that:

a) it will be credited in your 'Translation Units' number that is displayed on your profile
b) it will allow you to be discoverable through our Nakōdo search engine
c) it will improve your ranking in our traditional directory search

The way it is different is that no segment or aligned data is sent to TM-Town. So you will not be able to use any concordance search features or search that TM's content through one of our CAT tool extensions...as there is no segment level content sent to TM-Town.

Looking at the Deshi files, does the code in the end ensure that they are not manipulated? If not, what actions do you take to ensure that no manipulated files are uploaded?


Yes, there is an encrypted checksum at the bottom of the file that we check when it is sent to TM-Town. So if the file is manipulated after it is created by Deshi, you will not be able to load it into your TM-Town account.

Related to your question, there was a good question asked on the TM-Town forum that I'll copy here for your info:

Deshi only supports editing out confidential terminology in files under 1 MB. Is there a way to do this manually for larger files, by editing the .town file?


My answer: The .town file can not be edited, as we have an encrypted checksum to ensure that someone can not, for example, change the word count or segment count.

What you could do would be to edit the larger TM file itself before processing it with Deshi. In other words, open the TM file in a text editor and 'Find and Replace' any confidential terms. Then, when you go to analyze it in Deshi those terms will already be removed.

In the future, we hope to have a version of Deshi that can handle redaction for larger files.

[Edited at 2016-04-17 10:57 GMT]


 
Anna Spanoudaki-Thurm
Anna Spanoudaki-Thurm  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:51
German to Greek
+ ...
Thank you! Apr 17, 2016

I thought my account was already "starter" but I somehow could not find how to add second pair. The problem was probably that a cup of coffee is required (I was also troubled by the "greyed-out" appearence of the relevant badge. Mabe you should choose another color?)

Thank you for the clarifications regarding Deshi. I did think of editing the fiel to delete the confidential information and that is how I came up with
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I thought my account was already "starter" but I somehow could not find how to add second pair. The problem was probably that a cup of coffee is required (I was also troubled by the "greyed-out" appearence of the relevant badge. Mabe you should choose another color?)

Thank you for the clarifications regarding Deshi. I did think of editing the fiel to delete the confidential information and that is how I came up with the question about manipulation.
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Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:51
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Commercial error? Apr 17, 2016

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

...... despite having been acquired by ProZ and "integrated" with it, now you should be paying additional membership fees ($60-180/year) if you wish to have better chances of appearing on a different directory...


Suddenly this widens the opportunities for competition and differentiation between the various sites, apart from this one, that offer translation services.

[Edited at 2016-04-17 20:23 GMT]


 
neilmac
neilmac
Spain
Local time: 13:51
Spanish to English
+ ...
Same here Apr 23, 2016

Jo Macdonald wrote:

I must admit to being a bit ignorant about what exactly your site is for. ... noting the reservations some colleagues have, and still feel pretty much in the dark.

Everything you've mentioned above I'd really rather do on my own system or on a one-on-one basis with another translator, but maybe I'm just old-fashioned because I've stayed away from cloud-based systems so far and will probably continue to do so.


Ditto.
And, as I'm currently beating off propective clients with a stick, can't I just have the 48 dollars cash?

(Joke, no response required).


 
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 13:51
Member (2008)
English to Czech
SITE LOCALIZER
confused Apr 24, 2016

ProZ professional guidelines for translation service providers say:
Treat all sensitive information as confidential, and take steps to protect that confidentiality.

TM Town:
Expects me to upload my work.

Can someone from the ProZ team explain to me how can one treat translation information as confidential (which is of utmost priority to me), and at the same time share it with any third party (no matter their privacy policy - it is a third party)? On w
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ProZ professional guidelines for translation service providers say:
Treat all sensitive information as confidential, and take steps to protect that confidentiality.

TM Town:
Expects me to upload my work.

Can someone from the ProZ team explain to me how can one treat translation information as confidential (which is of utmost priority to me), and at the same time share it with any third party (no matter their privacy policy - it is a third party)? On what basis wouldn't the latter be a per se violation of the guidelines (let alone of standard professional principles) which many members of ProZ endorse?

Frankly I'm quite disappointed that you (ProZ) are inviting the translators to share their work with someone else than their clients.
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Jared Tabor
Jared Tabor
Local time: 09:51
SITE STAFF
TOPIC STARTER
Examples of the kind of work you do Apr 24, 2016

Hello Tomas,

Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:

ProZ professional guidelines for translation service providers say:
Treat all sensitive information as confidential, and take steps to protect that confidentiality.


No one is asking you to share work which is covered by NDAs or the like. All kinds of examples of your work can be used, including, for instance, the sample translations you have already published in your ProZ.com profile.

Jared


 
Gillian Searl
Gillian Searl  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:51
German to English
Once bitten... Apr 25, 2016

I'm not uploading my TMs; I'm not uploading work covered by NDAs. Why? Because no matter that you say nobody else accesses it, it has to run through your systems for the analysis to take place. That means somebody can and will access it now and in the future. You can swear blind it isn't true - but it is! If I upload something, I'm giving away my intellectual property - or that of my client.

I'm not translating documents especially for this purpose. Why? Because it's a waste of my t
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I'm not uploading my TMs; I'm not uploading work covered by NDAs. Why? Because no matter that you say nobody else accesses it, it has to run through your systems for the analysis to take place. That means somebody can and will access it now and in the future. You can swear blind it isn't true - but it is! If I upload something, I'm giving away my intellectual property - or that of my client.

I'm not translating documents especially for this purpose. Why? Because it's a waste of my time.

Just because something is technically possible, does not mean it should be done.
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Michael Beijer
Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:51
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
@Tomas and Gilian: Apr 25, 2016

They recently tried to solve this problem (I think successfully) with a new system (forget the name) where all the TMs remain on your computer, and all that gets uploaded is a code of some kind, which is used only to calculate your ranking.

Michael


 
Jared Tabor
Jared Tabor
Local time: 09:51
SITE STAFF
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Michael Apr 25, 2016

Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:

They recently tried to solve this problem (I think successfully) with a new system (forget the name) where all the TMs remain on your computer, and all that gets uploaded is a code of some kind, which is used only to calculate your ranking.

Michael


Right. The application is called "Deshi", and you can read about it here: https://www.tm-town.com/getting-started#deshi

Gillian, regardless of whether you use them on TM-Town, one or two sample translations in your areas of expertise in your ProZ.com profile only help to make it stronger and make it easier for potential clients and collaborators to evaluate working with you, the same as all the other fields in your profile, and ways of differentiating yourself (verified identity, client feedback, membership, CPN, etc.).

Jared


 
Meta Arkadia
Meta Arkadia
Local time: 19:51
English to Indonesian
+ ...
Non-believers Apr 25, 2016

Michael, it doesn't seem to matter what reasonable arguments in favour of TM-Town you bring forward. There seem to be Very Important Translators who only do jobs for which they signed NDAs and who understand far more than I do about how TM-Town works. Good. Let them stay away from it. I gave up trying to convince them after several comprehensive attempts. After all, it's better for mere mortal translators if they don't use TM-Town.

Cheers,

Hans


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:51
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
And work where we haven't actually signed anything? Apr 25, 2016

Jared Tabor wrote:
No one is asking you to share work which is covered by NDAs or the like. All kinds of examples of your work can be used, including, for instance, the sample translations you have already published in your ProZ.com profile.

I consider ALL my work to be covered implicitly by an NDA, even though I've only ever signed a few. Clients send the text on a "need-to-know" basis, not for general distribution. They expect confidentiality even if they don't ask for a signature, and they should get that confidentiality. My own samples are there with the express permission of the client. None of the other TUs in my TMs have that permission.

I think Tomas Mosler raises a very important point.


 
Meta Arkadia
Meta Arkadia
Local time: 19:51
English to Indonesian
+ ...
Nope Apr 25, 2016

Sheila Wilson wrote:
I think Tomas Mosler raises a very important point.


He didn't.

Cheers,

Hans

[Edited at 2016-04-25 12:13 GMT]


 
Michael Beijer
Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:51
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
See: "Deshi" Apr 25, 2016

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Jared Tabor wrote:
No one is asking you to share work which is covered by NDAs or the like. All kinds of examples of your work can be used, including, for instance, the sample translations you have already published in your ProZ.com profile.

I consider ALL my work to be covered implicitly by an NDA, even though I've only ever signed a few. Clients send the text on a "need-to-know" basis, not for general distribution. They expect confidentiality even if they don't ask for a signature, and they should get that confidentiality. My own samples are there with the express permission of the client. None of the other TUs in my TMs have that permission.

I think Tomas Mosler raises a very important point.


-> https://www.tm-town.com/getting-started#deshi


 
Meta Arkadia
Meta Arkadia
Local time: 19:51
English to Indonesian
+ ...
One more thing (as we say) Apr 25, 2016

If that Michael J.W.Beijer and I agree on somthing, it's probably worth considering.

Cheers,

Hans


 
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