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How do you translate certificates and passports?
Thread poster: Mark Sanderson
Mark Benson (X)
Mark Benson (X)  Identity Verified

English to Swedish
+ ...
General answer to what agencies prefer? Feb 27, 2014

Don't they usually prefer that the translation is done in a CAT tool and take care of the other aspects without translator involvement? Unless the translator is also a professional print designer like Joakim, that is. But as a standard?

And another thing I would just like to point out: What is it with translating passports? They come with the relevant information in a number of languages. I suppose I'm missing something...


 
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 11:21
English to Polish
+ ...
Plain text Feb 28, 2014

Plain text, possibly a tabular layout where justified, but linear is safer. Descriptions – of stamps etc. – in square parentheses, using an abbreviated and somewhat solemn style like 'signature illegible' (except that for English I just use '/s/'). Always marked with -/- for end of line, although some folks round here still go for dotted lines like notaries public do.

The layout I create usually resembles the original enough for orientation but not enough for close aesthetic sim
... See more
Plain text, possibly a tabular layout where justified, but linear is safer. Descriptions – of stamps etc. – in square parentheses, using an abbreviated and somewhat solemn style like 'signature illegible' (except that for English I just use '/s/'). Always marked with -/- for end of line, although some folks round here still go for dotted lines like notaries public do.

The layout I create usually resembles the original enough for orientation but not enough for close aesthetic similarity. And this is just how I want it to be.

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

I am a sworn translator in Brazil, which has a law on sworn translations issued in 1943, and unamended ever since. The early ones were done with fountain pens and typewriters.


I actually certified something in pen in December.

[Edited at 2014-02-28 01:00 GMT]
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José Henrique Lamensdorf
José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 07:21
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
Unreasonable demands Feb 28, 2014

Mark Benson wrote:

Don't they usually prefer that the translation is done in a CAT tool and take care of the other aspects without translator involvement? Unless the translator is also a professional print designer like Joakim, that is. But as a standard?

And another thing I would just like to point out: What is it with translating passports? They come with the relevant information in a number of languages. I suppose I'm missing something...


Yes, Mark, some agencies demand Trados, even if it's a diploma all written in ornate Gothic letters. They bluntly abhor translators who don't own/use Trados, regardless of the job requirements. No idea on the actual reason for that, it seems like some sort of religion.


Yes, all passports have everything in 2-3 languages, otherwise what would be the point of using them outside one's home country?

British passports, I think since 2007 (?), have all field labels numbered, and translated into some 30 languages. The 11th is Portuguese (with just one mistranslation). Does it work in Brazil? No! Local authorities demand a sworn translation of that anyway.


It seems that some people find it self-rewarding to use their limited power to make unreasonable demands.


 
Maxi Schwarz
Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:21
German to English
+ ...
Passports Feb 28, 2014

Yes, passports are multilingual, but some parts aren't. I just did a passport request yesterday. In this case, there was a page that said the person's eyes were "braun", and another page said "nicht gueltig". So those were the parts that needed to be translated.

Another thing that gets translated are the customs stamps that indicate arrival and departure in various countries. Among other things, it lets officials track if somebody has overstayed. In that case you give the passp
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Yes, passports are multilingual, but some parts aren't. I just did a passport request yesterday. In this case, there was a page that said the person's eyes were "braun", and another page said "nicht gueltig". So those were the parts that needed to be translated.

Another thing that gets translated are the customs stamps that indicate arrival and departure in various countries. Among other things, it lets officials track if somebody has overstayed. In that case you give the passport number, and also translate things like the ==> and
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Maria Amorim (X)
Maria Amorim (X)  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 11:21
Swedish to Portuguese
+ ...
Authorized translation - experience in Sweden Feb 28, 2014

I have also bought a number of authorized translations in Sweden, among others education certificates.

The authorized translations of education certificates do not resemble at all the original documents ( which I must say have a rather unusual format, 12 x 21 cm, four sides each, one with contents shown in a table). Translations are merely texts, with the attached tables, followed by all the relevant features present in the original certificates.The translator even resumed the infor
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I have also bought a number of authorized translations in Sweden, among others education certificates.

The authorized translations of education certificates do not resemble at all the original documents ( which I must say have a rather unusual format, 12 x 21 cm, four sides each, one with contents shown in a table). Translations are merely texts, with the attached tables, followed by all the relevant features present in the original certificates.The translator even resumed the information displayed in this four page leaflet in two pages which I considered a reasonable solution. The document as a whole is clean and comprehensible.

This is just to corroborate what other colleagues have said: it is not necessary to reproduce the original format. An authorized translation delivered in the same original format can be considered a plus (and in fact can help in some cases) but it is not required.

I was also taught to respect the original layout during legal translation courses. In other types of documents, for example, separation and divorce proceedings, situations in which the members of the couple have different nationalities and different levels of comprehension of the main language, I do deliver the translation as near as possible the original format. I believe it can help the parts to follow both texts and improve their understanding. But this is a bit outside the scope being discussed here ...
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Josephine Cassar
Josephine Cassar  Identity Verified
Malta
Local time: 11:21
Member (2012)
English to Maltese
+ ...
Plain Text Feb 28, 2014

I'm glad to see that you confirm exactly what I said Lucas, with [ and ] for stamps, signatures. These are not forged. Just state that there is a signature, left corner or right corner, wherever it appears and the name usually appears beneath or what the person's function is. But I learnt that layout has to be respected and it is not all that difficult to do. You might-only might- be accused of forgery if you copy/paste the stamp from the PDF file, which is how these are usually sent.

 
Daina Jauntirans
Daina Jauntirans  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:21
German to English
+ ...
You never know! Feb 28, 2014

philgoddard wrote:

I'm glad the consensus is that the layout needs to be approximately the same as the original.

Many clients are more concerned about the appearance of a document than what it actually says. I did a legal document recently, and the customer was furious because I didn't cut-and-paste the logo at the top of the page and I used a different font to the original.



I agree with you and Lennart and the rest who said the layout/look should approximate the original, but components of the original should not be copied. That is what I was taught in both my MA program and in a legal translation seminar I attended, and what I do in practice. None of the diplomas or certificates I have translated have been rejected (this is in the US).

Every once in a while, a client requests something different. I had one recently who asked that I not use underlining (to represent the lines where information was handwritten on the original form) and another a while back who was not happy that I had translated redacted text and reproduced it with a strikethrough font - they had wanted it to be deleted entirely, but had not said so.


 
Josephine Cassar
Josephine Cassar  Identity Verified
Malta
Local time: 11:21
Member (2012)
English to Maltese
+ ...
outside the scope being discussed here Feb 28, 2014

No, Maria, it is part and parcel of what is being discussed here- what you mention is essential too, although the context of the divorce is different, seeing parties might be of different nationalities

 
Mark Benson (X)
Mark Benson (X)  Identity Verified

English to Swedish
+ ...
Dear Lukas! Mar 1, 2014

Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote:

Plain text, possibly a tabular layout where justified, but linear is safer. Descriptions – of stamps etc. – in square parentheses, using an abbreviated and somewhat solemn style like 'signature illegible' (except that for English I just use '/s/'). Always marked with -/- for end of line, although some folks round here still go for dotted lines like notaries public do.

The layout I create usually resembles the original enough for orientation but not enough for close aesthetic similarity. And this is just how I want it to be.

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

I am a sworn translator in Brazil, which has a law on sworn translations issued in 1943, and unamended ever since. The early ones were done with fountain pens and typewriters.


I actually certified something in pen in December.

[Edited at 2014-02-28 01:00 GMT]


Dear Lukas,

Next time you're going to do that, please send me an email! I'll just get on the very next flight and come to you, so that you can do it on my back, as it's supposed to be done!

Yours/
Mark


 
Tina Vonhof (X)
Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 04:21
Dutch to English
+ ...
Low-rent Mar 1, 2014

Joakim Braun wrote:

Translate it in a word processor, approximating the layout.
If you know your application you can do the formatting very quickly as you go.

The point of this is not to make it look exactly like the original, but to help officials who are provided with a certified copy of the original to orient themselves. (Incidentally, it also often looks quite good, even with a small effort.)

As a sworn translator, I'd recoil a bit from a translation that has the original document included. Looks low-rent somehow...

[Bearbeitet am 2014-02-27 17:20 GMT]



Helping officials to orient themselves pretty well requires that you keep the translation looking as closely as possible to the original. They have to be able to recognize the various parts of the document. This does take time and effort but you have to adjust your rates for these documents accordingly. I charge them by the hour.

FYI, in my country, the "low-rent" look is an absolute requirement for any certified translation.


 
Preston Decker
Preston Decker  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:21
Chinese to English
Second thoughts on fraud Mar 3, 2014

I had always assumed that images should be recreated as faithfully as possible, that is until I read the below-linked blog (and the comments referenced in the blog ) on Corinne McKay's excellent TranslateWrite blog. Would highly recommend reading this, as it supports what one or two of the previous posters in this thread wrote about the dangers of committing fraud by exactly copying images.
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I had always assumed that images should be recreated as faithfully as possible, that is until I read the below-linked blog (and the comments referenced in the blog ) on Corinne McKay's excellent TranslateWrite blog. Would highly recommend reading this, as it supports what one or two of the previous posters in this thread wrote about the dangers of committing fraud by exactly copying images.

Here's the link to the blog post: http://thoughtsontranslation.com/2010/03/08/translation-official-documents-continued/

[Edited at 2014-03-03 10:34 GMT]
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Triston Goodwin
Triston Goodwin  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:21
Spanish to English
+ ...
I would be curious to know Mar 3, 2014

if any translator has ever actually been accused of fraud. One judge, as mentioned in the blog above, saying that it might look like fraud is one thing, but a real case against a translator is another.

This seems to be the major argument against the fancier stuff, but I've never heard of an actual case where a translator was accused of anything.

Have I missed them?


 
Mark Sanderson
Mark Sanderson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:21
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
Which tools do you use? Nov 20, 2015

Apologies for brining an old post back from the dead.

Someone has just told me that they use Excel to translate certificates and documents as it's a great way to replicate the formatting (without committing fraud). Other posters on this thread mentioned using a word processor. Which tool do you find is best to use?

Thanks


 
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