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What qualifies you to translate out of your chosen source language(s)?
Thread poster: 564354352 (X)
Ty Kendall
Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:19
Hebrew to English
I'll answer the how....where there's a will, there's a way. Feb 22, 2016

Gitte Hovedskov, MCIL wrote:
Let me reiterate that I am curious to hear how people acquire professional knowledge about languages, particularly minority languages, if there is no obvious way to learn such languages in their own countries.... I'm not asking IF people qualify to do so, I am just asking HOW?


As someone with a "niche" or minority source language, perhaps I can answer the "how".
I acquired my source language through sheer stubbornness and determination. As you can imagine, there aren't too many official courses in Hebrew in the UK (outside of London or Manchester especially).
In my early teens I went through every course I could find at any educational establishment within reach that my parents would be willing to drive me to on a regular basis. Once those were exhausted, I fluttered my eyelids and managed to get my mom to agree to private tuition. After years of that when I was reaching the limits of what can be taught in a classroom I sought out opportunities for total immersion which culminated in me becoming an au pair (or "manny" [male nanny]) for an Israeli family (the matriarch of said family was my old Hebrew teacher - bargain!) so I managed to lock myself in a pretty solid Hebrew speaking bubble within an English speaking environment for some time before finally making it to Israel itself for a while.

A bit more arduous than had I decided to stick with Spanish, but definitely achievable with enough willpower, but essentially that's how I did it. I imagine other native English speakers with niche languages probably had a similar journey.

Although I think things are possibly easier nowadays for someone with such ambitions, what with the internet, cheaper travel, language apps, exchanges, chat groups etc.


 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:19
Member (2004)
English to Italian
Personally... Feb 22, 2016

Gitte Hovedskov, MCIL wrote:

I am simply asking what it is that makes people feel they know a source language well enough to translate from this language into their native language (or into any other language, for that matter).


I've lived in England for the last 26 years... on and off... I think I know my source language rather well...


 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
^^^ Feb 22, 2016

Gitte Hovedskov, MCIL wrote:

Why is it acceptable to question why people translate into a non-native language but not acceptable to ask why people feel qualified to translate out of a native or non-native language?


Because there's a big difference between a passive and an active knowledge of a language.

I'm not quite the charlatan I made out earlier. Obviously. My knowledge of Danish comes through the closely related Swedish, and that in turn through the closely related German and English. But even my Swedish isn't backed by years and years of study and cultural immersion. I mostly taught myself Swedish by reading translations of Robert Ludlum thrillers and shagging my way through half the population of northern Sweden while studying music there for a year in the early 90s, although I do also have a subsequent degree and postgrad diploma to wave at customers should I need to. My spoken and written Swedish is still fluent enough but won't be as accurate or effortless as with someone who lives there because I hardly ever use it.

So what qualifies me to translate it?

- I'm bright and have a talent for languages, so I can understand the source.
- I'm bright and educated, so I can write the target.
- I'm too unemployable to use those skills for anything more lucrative.

All of which are hard to document. The proof of the pudding has to be in the eating.

Given the above, I could probably learn Dutch well enough to translate texts in my fields in a few months without actually going there.

But I take your point, Gitte, and I understand your frustration at being forever a second-class citizen in some people's eyes, but face it, you're not going to win this one. Just give them the two fingers and carry on being the exception to the rule!

Gitte Hovedskov, MCIL wrote:

The fact that you see things in one way does not make your particular point of view a universal truth.


Shurely shome mishtake?


 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:19
Member (2004)
English to Italian
yes... Feb 22, 2016

Lingua 5B wrote:

Something caught my attention and that's the argument "have lived in the source language country for xy years".

Well, in regards with this... The most proficient person in my native language I have come to meet never resided in this country (visiting yes, residing no). They studied Serbo-Croatian at Uni level for 5 years at the University of Vienna. Their use of the language was so excellent I couldn't believe they were non-native and kept asking questions about their heritage (full German heritage).

On the other hand, I know foreigners who have been living in this country for 15+, 20+ years and they still make basic grammatical errors, their vocabulary is poor, etc. These are the people that make the kind of errors while using the language that I wouldn't trust them to translate from it (not professionally).

So this argument is not necessarily valid (I am not saying it can't be sometimes, but not necessarily). Just because someone lives in a country XY, it doesn't mean they are soaking in the language actively or accurately, you would probably require professional guidance for that.

[Edited at 2016-02-21 08:40 GMT]


there is all that... but we are talking about supposedly professional translators... of course we are all different, but we are referring to people with a bit of education under their belts... we are not talking about Mickey Mouse...

I have an Italian friend who, after 20 years in England, can just about say 3 sentences... he was very good at driving trains in Italy, though...


 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
And another thing Feb 22, 2016

Gitte Hovedskov, MCIL wrote:
Let me reiterate that I am curious to hear how people acquire professional knowledge about languages, particularly minority languages, if there is no obvious way to learn such languages in their own countries.... I'm not asking IF people qualify to do so, I am just asking HOW?


Immersion, mainly.

I learned far more living in Germany for a few months than I did studying German for years on end at school and university.


 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:19
Member (2004)
English to Italian
Absolutely... Feb 22, 2016

Chris S wrote:

Gitte Hovedskov, MCIL wrote:
Let me reiterate that I am curious to hear how people acquire professional knowledge about languages, particularly minority languages, if there is no obvious way to learn such languages in their own countries.... I'm not asking IF people qualify to do so, I am just asking HOW?


Immersion, mainly.

I learned far more living in Germany for a few months than I did studying German for years on end at school and university.


nothing to add... but it looks like that even spending 30 years in the source language country might not be enough...


 
Neptunia
Neptunia
Local time: 10:19
Italian to English
what qualifies you to translate out of your chosen source language? Feb 22, 2016

I'll admit my source language skills are mediocre. I am very aware that I can quite easily miss the point, especially in the case of discussions involving humor, politics, or complicated instructions that I really need to see written down. So what makes me think I can translate?
I realized that my specialized professional experience and the ability to prepare material for publication are far more valuable assets than source-language fluency or formal translation training. I have worked ful
... See more
I'll admit my source language skills are mediocre. I am very aware that I can quite easily miss the point, especially in the case of discussions involving humor, politics, or complicated instructions that I really need to see written down. So what makes me think I can translate?
I realized that my specialized professional experience and the ability to prepare material for publication are far more valuable assets than source-language fluency or formal translation training. I have worked full-time in cultural institutions in Italy for about 8 years and consistently found that my skill most in demand was revising the strange English written by my bilingual colleagues or literally sitting next to them at the computer and co-creating a new text based on an Italian rough draft. Often, my interpretation and re-writing of the original idea would end up being reincorporated back into an Italian version because it more effectively communicated the author's intent. Or it turns out the sentences that I don't understand are the ones that the author realizes don't make any sense. I also always do a little fact-checking and make sure people's names are spelled correctly, etc. and invariably catch some errors. This is part of any normal editing process but it often goes beyond what a translator is expected to do. I've also gained experience with the nit-picky rules of preparing academic texts for publication including three substantial book projects. Most people who claim native proficiency and translate IT>EN probably don't know the difference between an n-dash and an m-dash or how to convert a source-language citation into a properly formatted, publishable footnote and they certainly don't have the subject matter expertise that I have. The kind of work I do is probably not very typical, but I am confident that I am providing a high-quality result.
Collapse


 
Andy Watkinson
Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 10:19
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
Wrong tack Feb 23, 2016

Annamaria Amik wrote:

Andy Watkinson wrote:

Gitte Hovedskov, MCIL wrote:

As a follow-up to the very interesting discussion on why people might or might not translate into any other language than their native language, I am very curious to learn how people feel qualified to translate out of their chosen source language(s) into their native language.


Correct me if I'm wrong.
You're asking why a translator decides to translate into their native language from the source language they have chosen.


It's not that obvious. Just minutes ago a native EN who never misses a chance to criticize anyone translating out of this particular non-EN language into EN posted a reply to a > EN question that belied she had absolutely no idea what the source text meant (her non-native source language of choice). Not for the first time, I might add.
Gitte's question is not absurd at all. What qualifies a person like that to translate out of this particular source language?...


So some people don't know their source language as well as they should. So what?

Lots of people are unfit or, at the very least, ill-equipped to do their job properly.

I'm speaking about a general principle and practice, i.e. that it's hardly a revolutionary idea that a person should translate from their source language into their native language.

What else?*

(*Courtesy of George Clooney)


 
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