English Science History HISTORY OF HEL

Can you help me to find the words in the Martin Palmer’s part?

Here goes the transcribed passage:

MARTIN PALMER: “Absolutely part of that. And you get -- I mean essentially the apocalyptic tradition goes from Judaism into Manichaeism, this extraordinary religion that emerges out of Persian religion, you get the Zoroastrians writing ... er ... an amazing account of the descending to hell in the Arda Viraf text which is quite extraordinary, then you go across to China and you get this very strange phenomenon. In the fourth century BC … er … the philosopher Chuang Tzu has a wonderful conversation with a skull and says, wouldn’t you like to be a human again? And 17:05 ((he goes)), oh no -- no -- no, it’s much nicer down here. By the time you get to the fourth century AD, Buddhism has come in, and is saying, ah!, it’s horrendous and the Daoist and the Buddhists are competing with horrific visions of hell. But they are competing numerically. The -- the Buddhists come in with eight hells, the Taoists say, oh, no we’ve got ten, so the Buddhists go we’ve got eighteen, so the Daoists go we’ve got twenty-four and then the Buddhists cup them by saying we’ve got eighty-four thousand, and at this point the Daoists give up. But also in Hinduism you got an enormous explosion. Few weeks ago I was in ankle 17:35 ((Wo)), looking at amazing sculptures of the thirty-two hells and the thirty-seven heavens, nobody was looking at the heavens, everybody was fascinated by the gruesome details, and that’s from, what?, the eleventh century but based on texts from the fourth and fifth century”.

Where 17:05, 17:35 are the timestamps here.
Thanks in advance. Darek

PS. You can download or listen to the programme here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/