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в залоге под полученные кредиты
ДЬМ
Jun 23, 2008 00:09
15 yrs ago
Russian term

рейсы (here)

Russian to English Other Military / Defense Intelligence collection
From a mock intelligence report for a military exercise:

Увеличилось количество разведывательных полетов вдоль границы с
государствами стран "СИНИХ", * а также разведывательных рейсов, особенно в районе Балтийского моря *. Для ведения разведки в акваториях омывающих страны "КРАСНЫХ" привлекаются рыболовецкие катера.

Does рейсы here refer to recon aircraft flights or voyages by intelligence collection vessels? Aircraft are mentioned in the first part of the first sentence and a ship type is mentioned in the next sentence, so it appears that some kind of intelligence collection platform is being referred to twice. Or have I missed something?
Proposed translations (English)
3 +3 missions
3 forays
3 CA flights

Discussion

koundelev Jun 23, 2008:
Сергей, отличие в том, что они - рейсовые, летают по расписанию. Когда разведзаданий не станет, они все равно будут летать и возить пассажиров. Потому что авиалиния ...
GaryG (asker) Jun 23, 2008:
Всем: I should mention that I suspect that the text was written not by a Russian, but by a Pole, thus perhaps accounting for an unexpected choice of words at time.
Sergei Tumanov Jun 23, 2008:
Как говорится, проблем нет. Тогда чем же это отличается от полета? :)
koundelev Jun 23, 2008:
Сергей, если для судна любой выход в море с определенной целью - это рейс, то в ГА - это полет по определенному маршруту и расписанию ( с пересечением границы, т.е. получение сведений, которые не доступны военным самолетам, барражирующим вдоль границы).
Sergei Tumanov Jun 23, 2008:
Если и там, и там использовалась авиация, то не было бы смысла разделять полеты и рейсы. Можно было бы обойтись одними полетами.
koundelev Jun 23, 2008:
А разведывательные рейсы - это предусмотренные законом сообщения, используемые в разведывательных целях...
koundelev Jun 23, 2008:
Если имеет место нарушение границ - это уже не рейсы, а походы. И еще: если в первой части предложения речь идет об авиации, то логично предположить полеты ГА. Рейсы - законные сообщения...
Sergei Tumanov Jun 23, 2008:
Тем более, что во втором предложении уточняется, какие именно суда применяются. Это рыболовецкие катера.
Sergei Tumanov Jun 23, 2008:
рейсы - тут однозначно рейсы судов, кораблей, катеров.
James Fite Jun 23, 2008:
I should also mention that recon raids can also be conducted in larger groups once the fighting begins (recon platoons,etc.), but then shooting could be involved. Another term in Russian for pre-op/operational recon raids I've seen is разведка поиском.
James Fite Jun 23, 2008:
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to share my experience in this area. Oh, and I'm not splitting hairs. I don't have enough left to split. I'm too old. If I was arguing for "incursions" over "raids," then maybe I'd be spitting hairs...;
James Fite Jun 23, 2008:
No shooting. Small teams (1-3 men) go into hostile territory surreptitiously for pre-op recon, i.e. before the shooting starts. The three types of recon conducted (air, sea and land) are clearly outlined in these two sentences IF it is рейды, not рейсы.
GaryG (asker) Jun 23, 2008:
рейды? James, by рейды do you mean shooting? That's what the term means to me. In this context there's no shooting (and that's not the job of recon people anyway). I've checked both a R>E Aviation Dictionary and the FBIS R>E Military Dictionary and don't see support for the idea of "raid".
The Misha Jun 23, 2008:
I think you guys are all splitting hairs here. The author is just trying to use synonyms here as a matter of style. They are reconnaissance flights or missions, whatever you want to call them, in both instances.
James Fite Jun 23, 2008:
Just ran this reasoning by my AF Intel officer contact, and she agrees that recon raids are always done in the run-up to conflict. Indeed, we rarely if ever launch an op without prior recon raids.
James Fite Jun 23, 2008:
Oh, no. I have to disagree. Разведывательные is a perfect adjective for рейды in this context, especially in the run-up to a military conflict. Recon raids are used in the run-up to military conflict, indeed they are vital. Thus my question.
GaryG (asker) Jun 23, 2008:
Nope, not рейды First, this is the run-up to a military conflict and so рейды is....premature. You don't
have "roadsteads" in mind, do you? In either event разведывательные appears
to be a strange choice for a preceding adjective.
James Fite Jun 23, 2008:
Just curious, but do you think you might be dealing with a typo? Maybe рейдов instead of рейсов?

Proposed translations

+3
1 hr
Selected

missions

На всякий случай. But, based on the same reasoning as Paul outlined.
Peer comment(s):
agree Oleksandr Yastremskyi : reconnaissance missions
4 hrs
Thanks.
agree Sergei Tumanov
4 hrs
Thanks.
agree svetlana cosquéric
6 hrs
Thanks.
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to you, Rachel, but also to many others for their enlightening comments, especially Sergei and George!"
6 mins

forays

I think these specific рейсы are in ocean-going vessels, but they don't have to be and they may be in planes in addition to ocean-going vessels. I think "forays" is sufficiently vague in this context to cover both.
Peer comment(s):
agree Rachel Douglas : I agree with what Paul said, but do you suppose you could call them "missions"?
14 mins
disagree Oleksandr Yastremskyi : foray = to make a raid or brief invasion, clearly not the case
5 hrs
Foray, like raid, means you go over borders.
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

CA flights

I think that while the military recon aircraft flights were routed ALONG the border, this party could use civil aircraft equipped with aerial photoreconnaissance cameras and making regular flights ACROSS the border...
Something went wrong...
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