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Bureau de l'exécution des peines
maison de plein air
Jan 5, 2010 21:55
14 yrs ago
5 viewers *
French term

Ni un hérisson, ni un paillasson

French to English Other Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
I fully get the meaning but do not know a good English equivalent.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +10 neither raging bull nor quivering dormouse
3 +5 Don't be prickly and defensive but don't be a doormat.
4 +4 Neither tyrant nor titmouse
3 +4 Neither bully nor doormat
4 +2 Be neither pushy/too aggressive nor a pushover/ too permissive
3 +2 neither doormat or hedgehog, assert yourself
3 +2 Be nice, but don't be a pushover
4 neither too sour nor too sweet

Discussion

Anne-Marie Grant (X) Jan 6, 2010:
Hi Carole - yes, you're right about 'ni écraser' (she replies, keen to appear neither prickly nor defensive...:)
Carol Gullidge Jan 6, 2010:
Hi Anne-Marie I think it depends in this context whether the Asker is looking for a "compromise" between 2 opposites (ie, don't be a bully, but also don't let yourself be bullied) - which is how I see assertiveness, and which seems to be the general consensus here. But your point of view could also be right, if the Asker is looking for 2 arguments on the same side - the 2nd perhaps merely boosting the 1st. However, I think your reference supports my interpretation: "Ni écraser" definitely smacks of bullying and not of "prickliness" - which is a defensive, rather than an aggressive, attitude, at least in UK English
Laura Molinari (asker) Jan 6, 2010:
Frequency I cannot claim it's a "standard" French expression but it certainly is very common. If you Google "ni hérisson, ni paillasson" there are about 14,000 hits. But there are plenty of great options here to choose from
Anne-Marie Grant (X) Jan 6, 2010:
I understand what you're saying, Carole, but given that this is not a standard expression I think the writer has deliberately chosen the image of the hedgehog - which is not known for being aggressive. I do actually think that learning not to be prickly and defensive is part of assertiveness training and would fit in with the need to 'essayer de descendre mes propres murs'.
Carol Gullidge Jan 6, 2010:
prickly I like the hedgehog metaphor, but, given the context of asertiveness, it doesn't mean "prickly" in the sense that we use it in EN - ie, being oversensitive and touchy. Here it's more about being on the attack (bossy), whereas prickliness is rather a defensive attitude: easily upset, taking offence at the slightest thing
Jonathan MacKerron Jan 6, 2010:
always steer a middle course perhaps? "stick to your guns, but know when to compromise.
Stéphanie Soudais Jan 6, 2010:
I may be wrong, but this isn't a standard French expression (i.e. you probably won't find it in the dictionary). And on the Internet I get 3 results only. Which means that a word for word translation might be enough...
Laura Molinari (asker) Jan 5, 2010:
Context Sorry! I was thinking that this was a standard expression that might only have one translation in English, hence the omission of the context. And it does indeed mean in this context not being too prickly and aggressive nor allowing oneself to let others walk all over you, like the doormat. It is about respectful, non-violent communication.

Être ni un hérisson, ni un paillasson! Ni écraser, ni se laisser écrasé par l'autre. Être vrai. Chercher à voir en l'autre une personne importante qui a peut-être ses propres difficultés relationnelles. Réagir avec respect et amour pour faire descendre un peu les murs de protection dans l'autre en essayant de descendre mes propres murs.
Carol Gullidge Jan 5, 2010:
agree with Phil: please provide context! this could be a whole range of things, depending on the context. It might also help if you were to provide the meaning that you "fully get"
philgoddard Jan 5, 2010:
I have a suggestion which may or not be appropriate depending on the context, which you haven't given.

Proposed translations

+10
1 hr
Selected

neither raging bull nor quivering dormouse

.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2010-01-05 23:58:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If you want something a bit more colorful.
Peer comment(s):
agree Anne-Marie Grant (X) : Very evocative.
36 mins
Thanks Anne-Marie!
agree Chris Hall
1 hr
Thanks Chris
agree Sheila Wilson : nice one!
9 hrs
Thank you.
agree Carol Gullidge : very colourful!
9 hrs
Thanks!
agree Stephanie Ezrol
13 hrs
Thank you.
agree Cetacea
14 hrs
Thanks Cetacea
agree bcsantos : V. good!
14 hrs
Thanks.
agree HugoSteckel
15 hrs
Thank you.
agree Lorna Coing
17 hrs
agree claudiocambon : Colorful it is! I love it!
1 day 15 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Wow! Some great responses here. I'm awarding points based on creativity. Would love to split it with the 'tyrant or titmouse' answer, but alas..."
21 mins

neither too sour nor too sweet

non?
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+2
22 mins

neither doormat or hedgehog, assert yourself

être ni trop timide, ni trop sur de soi e

« Ni paillasson, ni hérisson, affirmez-vous » "Neither doormat, or hedgehog, assert yourself"
Peer comment(s):
agree Colin Morley (X) : I'd go with this direct translation as I can find no similar idiom in English and the hedgehog and doormat get the meaning across
47 mins
Thanks Colin, s I did not find a similar idiom either, my thoughts were along your lines
neutral philgoddard : Do you think hedgehog works here? They may be prickly, but they're also shy and retiring and get run over by cars a lot.
1 hr
if it's good enough for the french....:)
agree Sandra Petch : I don't see why a direct translation doesn't work. French hedgehogs are prickly AND shy as well ;-) Presumably the author wants too prickly comparisons.
10 hrs
thank you Sandra !
neutral Julie Barber : Hi Verginia, we don't use hedgehog in English for this meaning. I've never heard it said for this
12 hrs
Something went wrong...
+4
33 mins

Neither bully nor doormat

..

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 52 mins (2010-01-05 22:47:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

John Xxiii: Pope of the Century - Google Books Result
by Margaret Hebblethwaite - 2005 - Religion - 296 pages
It was the problem he had thought about often before, notably in Istanbul: as bishop he must be neither bully nor doormat. Roncalli reflected on the ...
books.google.com.gi/books?isbn=0860123871...

DF] A Report on the Women in Coaching 2009 Canada Games Apprenticeship ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Passive – the person is a doormat who doesn't speak up. • Aggressive – the person is a bully. • Assertive — the person is neither a doormat nor a bully but ...
www.coach.ca/eng/women/.../REP_WiC_CGAPReport_EN_FEB08.pdf

Office Politics: Playing the Game with Dignity - Articles
“To be assertive is to be neither a doormat nor a bully,” notes Caro Handley at iVillage.co.uk. “And what's more, it's possible for anyone to learn how to ...
www.asme.org › ... › Newsletters › ME Today › Articles
Peer comment(s):
agree Sheila Wilson : certainly conveys the meaning, though I'm not sure it's a recognised saying in English
13 mins
Thank you!
agree liz cencetti (X)
58 mins
Thanks!
agree John Detre
3 hrs
Thanks!
neutral B D Finch : Have you ever been, or seen anybody else being bullied by a hedgehog?
10 hrs
I am not translating literally!! It is a question of conveying the meaning of the expression as there is really no equivalent that I can think of in English :-)
agree Travelin Ann : found a book title with "neither doormat nor dragon"
17 hrs
Thanks Travelin Ann!
Something went wrong...
+5
2 hrs

Don't be prickly and defensive but don't be a doormat.

Another possibility
Peer comment(s):
agree Chris Hall
21 mins
Thank you, Chris
agree Claire Cox : Yes, I don't think the hedgehog analogy works in English, but describing its characteristics does.
24 mins
Thanks, Claire
agree Kate Deimling : Ditto what Claire said -- this is clear and expressive.
2 hrs
Thanks, Kate
agree B D Finch : This gets the hedgehog bit right.
8 hrs
Thank you
agree Jocelyne S : Yes, doormat or pushover (Bourth below) - I would certainly avoid the hedgehogs.
9 hrs
Thanks, Jocelyne
Something went wrong...
+2
3 hrs

Be nice, but don't be a pushover

Though not metaphoric, this is nevertheless idiomatic, so I thought I would add to the fray.
Peer comment(s):
agree John Detre
1 hr
Merci!
agree HugoSteckel
13 hrs
Thanks!
Something went wrong...
+4
6 hrs

Neither tyrant nor titmouse

:)
Peer comment(s):
agree Carol Gullidge : another nice bit of alliteration!
5 hrs
agree Nora Mahony
6 hrs
agree Cetacea
9 hrs
agree Kelly Walsh
12 days
Something went wrong...
+2
9 hrs

Be neither pushy/too aggressive nor a pushover/ too permissive

However your text may well be accompanied by a drawing .... of a hedgehog and a doormat. In which case "aggressive" won't work, unless you think along the lines of Monty Python's Holy Grail rabbit.

"Don't be pushy, nor be a pushover" would be less in contradiction with any prickly images.
Peer comment(s):
agree Carol Gullidge : I like the "pushy/pushover" suggestion, which retains the "alliteration" of the ST!
2 hrs
agree Cetacea : with "be neither pushy nor a pushover"
6 hrs
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