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Two mortgage kind of dwelling
re-stowed
Oct 3, 2011 19:48
12 yrs ago
6 viewers *
English term

old fart

English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters Everyday language, idiom
She is an old fart?

Do nativE speakers, when they hear "old fart" mentioned in conversation, automatically assume it's referring to a male? I did. Much like "geezer", to me.

Do any of you, if/when you stoop to vulgarity, use the term "old fart" for women too?

Input appreciated from people familiar with the expression.

There is no context. Q of usage/definition. Just general interest :-)
Cilian
Responses
4 +16 men
5 +2 male
4 +3 Mrs. Feeney too
4 Can refer to either sex
3 male

Discussion

B D Finch Oct 4, 2011:
Closest female equivalent is an **old trout** - not an "old tart".
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/trout "informal an annoying or bad-tempered old woman. Origin: late Old English truht, from late Latin tructa, based on Greek trōgein 'gnaw' ..."
Lindsay Spratt Oct 3, 2011:
Yes, and it's strange because we are discussing here whether it can apply to both men and women, but the general consensus seems to be that it applies to 'old' people. This entry seems to suggest anyone of any age can be an old fart! Doesn't make sense to me. It's just one of those words like 'geezer' (as Cilian mentioned), that just seems to me to refer to men. I think a woman can be this type of character too, but she'd get a different name, as people have been discussing. There was a TV show on the BBC called 'Grumpy Old Men' which had men complaining about things in a humorous way, and they did then bring out 'Grumpy Old Women' too!
Charles Davis Oct 3, 2011:
I agree, Lindsay I saw that too. There is an enormous amount of rubbish in the Urban Dictionary (though I must admit I use it quite a lot), but still, there do seem to be some people out there who routinely apply this to women. I don't know whether we should welcome this (on the grounds of a loosening of gender stereotyping) or not. Is it feminist to claim the right to be an old fart?
Lindsay Spratt Oct 3, 2011:
Google results Hi Charles, interesting results. The Urban Dictionary also defines 'old fart' but the third on the list doesn't sound right to me at all.

3. old fart 7 up, 31 down
1- a word used to describe a person who is annoying or someone who u r mad at most of the time
person 1- ugh lauren is SO ANNOYING

person 2- I KNOW shes such an old fart
Charles Davis Oct 3, 2011:
I would have said old fartishness... was intrinsically male and would not have thought of the term being applied to a woman, but not everyone agrees, apparently: I got 137 Google results for "she's an old fart", 27 for "she was an old fart", and 26 more for "what an old fart she is". Loads more for "he" instead of "she", of course, but still.

Wiktionary says it's "An elderly person who holds views that are considered old-fashioned", which I don't think is a very good definition at all, but it's striking that they say "person", not even "normally male".

The expression "old fart" seems to have become widespread in the 1970s. An early example is "Old Fart at Play" by the immortal Don Van Vliet (Captain Beefheart), from Trout Mask Replica (1969). I won't quote the lyrics because they're pretty incomprehensible.
Suzan Hamer Oct 3, 2011:
If you want to use this to refer to a female, the term is "old fartess"....
Tony M Oct 3, 2011:
Of course ladies don't fart... ..they just have low-level sighs...

Brings a whole new meaning to the Ponte dei Sospiri...
Joshua Wolfe Oct 3, 2011:
Ladies don't fart Enough obfuscation. The reason o.f. is used for men not women is because ladies don't fart; they don't even pass wind. NB: I am well aware of the multiple sexism of this comment -- I don't hold this opinion, I am merely reporting the common point of view.
Martin Riordan Oct 3, 2011:
Biddy I agree with you totally about Biddy, Tony. I once had a sister-in-law called Biddy (she´s still called Biddy but isn´t my sister-in-law any more) and she was a lovely person.
Tony M Oct 3, 2011:
Men... An interesting question! I have to say that even if it might be applied to the Mrs Feeney's of this world, in my own mind it is an epithet that specifically applied to men — there's something about the character implied by 'o.f.' that somehow just seems more typically male. The character of Victor Meldrew in 'One Foot in the Grave' springs to mind; I just don't see women with the same sort of behaviour.
Perhaps this is because I am now officially classed as an 'old fart' myself (I'm expecting ProZ to award me a grey ribbon any day now!)

I have to take issue with 'biddy' — I do think this is a much nicer, almost endearing term, and I don't feel it conveys the same image as 'o.f.' at all.

I've been quite unable to concentrate on my work, trying to think of an equivalent expression for a woman, and I finally got round to 'old bat', which IMH (and farting!) Opinion is similar in tone and register.
Allison Wright (X) Oct 3, 2011:
Vulgarity, and former indecent usage I do not view the term "old fart" as being particularly vulgar, possibly because with the passage of time, the expression has lost its shock value and become less taboo. I have just checked my 1959 reprint of the 1933 edition of the Shorter Oxford English dictionary: "Fart, sb. Not in decent use. ME f. the vb.] A breaking wind". My more informative 1990 edition of the Concise Oxford calls it "coarse slang", but has under the second meaning for the verb "fart about, around", and for the noun, records the second meaning as "un unpleasant person", with a final little note saying "usually considered a taboo word". Etymologically, it has now been attributed to Old English: [OE (recorded in feorting verbal noun) f. Gmc.]
Lindsay Spratt Oct 3, 2011:
Pop and tayto crisps! Ahh! I like your description of this woman, Martin. It reminds me of an old lady who used to serve in a bar in Portsalon, Donegal. She was only cantankerous when we came in during the day and asked her for 500 cola bottles and she painstakingly counted them out! She used to sell 10p mix-ups in paper cones they called 'pokes' :) Interestingly, this has been discussed on the web: http://www.culturesmithconsulting.com/2008/12/female-equival...
Martin Riordan Oct 3, 2011:
Quite a question! You´ve really got me thinking now! It´s not an expression I have used recently, but, thinking back, I remember old Mrs. Feeney who sold bottles of pop and Tayto crisps from a little wooded house/shop at the entrance to Coney Island (Van Morrison´s Coney Island, not the one in America).

If any woman deserved to be called an old fart, it was Mrs. Feeney! She looked a bit like Giles' granny, a round figure swathed in layers of gray clothes. She was pretty cantankerous and never had a kind word for anybody. She would take the pennies and look at you as if you were offending her (which in your thoughts you were!). She didn´t even have a kind word for her husband, Paddy, who wasn´t a bad sort.

We called her a lot of things behind her back, but I honestly can´t remember if "old fart" was one of the expressions. But, remembering her, God be with her, I feel sure that the term would be appropriate in her case and therefore, by generalisation, to women.

Responses

+16
3 mins
Selected

men

Hi Cilian, I don't know why but this seems to me to refer to men and not women too. No evidence for that, just my feeling!
Note from asker:
Thanks, that's all I'm asking: whether native speakers use this term exclusively for men. BTW, I'd've thought "old bag" might be the equivalent, but "biddy" is very good...
Peer comment(s):
agree Liz Dexter (was Broomfield)
8 mins
Thank you, Liz :)
agree Helen Genevier
13 mins
Thanks, Helen :)
agree David Knowles : Well, I would automatically prefix it with "boring", and if it was a woman, it might be "old biddy"!
18 mins
Thanks, David. Yes, 'old biddy' is along the same lines!
agree claude-andrew : Yes; Agree with "biddy" for a woman too
20 mins
Cheers, claude-andrew :)
agree Bashiqa : Sounds like my English teacher at Firth park School.
22 mins
Thanks, Bashiqa! I can think of a few examples too :)
agree AllegroTrans : almost invariably applies to men
31 mins
Thanks, AllegroTrans!
agree Allison Wright (X) : Applies to men. Might call a similarly-aged woman a "(silly) old tart". Both can be used as terms of endearment, or semi-endearment.
45 mins
Thanks, Allison! I'm not sure about 'tart' though, makes me think more of 'mutton dressed as lamb'!
agree Jack Doughty : I'm one myself, never heard it applied to a woman though!
1 hr
Thanks Jack!
agree jccantrell : In the USA, I have only heard it applied to men, kind of like 'curmudgeon' but maybe that just means we are too polite to use such terms applied to women!
1 hr
Thank you JC!
agree cmwilliams (X)
3 hrs
Thanks! :)
agree Phong Le
4 hrs
Thank you! :)
agree BrigitteHilgner : I can only speak for the UK where I lived and where I have plenty of contacts (not that they use the expression much). Maybe it's different in other countries.
9 hrs
Thanks, Brigitte!
agree Amanda Jane Lowles : Male. Love Jack's comment!
9 hrs
Cheers, Amanda!
agree kmtext : I've heard it used with affection and as an insult, but only towards men. The closest female equivalent I've heard would be an old bat or battleaxe.
11 hrs
Thanks, kmtext!
agree Gary D : the movie "Grumpy old men" was about 3 old farts
14 hrs
Cheers, Gary! The BBC had two TV series, Grumpy Old Men and later, Grumpy Old Women!
agree Rachel Fell : I think it's for men, really - I think 'old bag' is the best female equiv., and not used for men. BTW, some of the people n the "Grumpy Old..." series weren't that old! ;-)
1 day 3 hrs
Thanks, Rachel! Acutally I googled 'Grumpy Old Men' and was surprised to learn that the men featured were aged between 35 and 54!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to everyone for the input and entertainment. Mrs Feeney seems to prove the rule."
11 mins

male

Yes, I would assume it was referring to a man, although "technically", as my nine-year old son is fond of saying, it could refer to a woman.

Something went wrong...
+2
27 mins

male

English has so many insults for women, and relatively few for men. It's nice to be reminded of a rare reversed-sexism example. Just like men perspire and ladies glow, or glisten, women don't fart -- at least that is the connotation;)
Peer comment(s):
agree Darya Kozak
6 mins
agree Sandra & Kenneth Grossman
18 mins
Something went wrong...
+3
33 mins

Mrs. Feeney too

I seee this is getting serious and will have to make my comment official. Please see explanation above.

Whether the female translators on Proz will want to accept Mrs. Feeney as a member of their gender group I´m not sure, but if they do, then the term is valid for men and women.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 35 mins (2011-10-03 20:24:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As Lindsay says, backed by 5 colleagues, there is no evidence that the term is restricted to men, and on the other side of the argument we have Mrs. Feeney, so I think that this can be interpreted as 6 votes in my favour.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-10-03 21:14:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In reply to Joshua, all scientific evidence points to the fact that male and female digestive systems have no significant differences in their chemical activity and therefore their gaseous production. Anyway, nobody ever said that it had to be proven that a man passed wind to deserve the title "old fart"...
Note from asker:
Very serious indeed. Though Lindsay suggests it IS restricted to men. Despite Mrs Feeney. :-)
Peer comment(s):
neutral Joshua Wolfe : or disagree -- unless you know Mrs. Feeney to have passed wind!
27 mins
Please see added note...
agree Allison Wright (X) : Mrs. Feeney was an old fart, no question. It is just that most old farts I have encountered have, strangely enough, been men. :) As already mentioned by others, there is a vast array of other names for the female peers of (mostly male) old farts.
40 mins
I think the Proz site is no place for sexual prejudice... Thank you for your support!
neutral AllegroTrans : I think she is/was an exception, and as someone else says, we men are too polite to apply this term to ladies
1 hr
We are, of course, discussing this only hypothetically. None of the Proz gentlemen would ever dream of using the term.
agree Veronika McLaren
1 hr
Thank you for this vote for women's equality and rights!
agree Captain Haddock
187 days
Thanks, Captain Haddock! You took a while to surface... :-)
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

Can refer to either sex

Grumpy Gimpy Old Farts Reunion 2011
AND....the top male Old Fart attendee with the most jumps was: Pat Works - 8200
+ jumps, (1st jump: 1961) The top female Old Fart attendee with the most jumps ...

www.airtrash.com/grumpy2011.htm - Cached - SimilarThe Alternative Japanese Dictionary — Page 1 of 1
Die shitting! note Not a nice thing to say..... kusobaba † old fart (female) note
Literally "shit old woman". kusojiji † old fart (male) note Literally "shit old man". ...

www.alternative-dictionaries.net/dictionary/Japanese/1.html - Cached - SimilarEnglish Slang Dictionary
The female, usually older and single, who is popular with the gays, has a lot of
gay male .... a derogatory term for an older man: "That old fart just hit on me! ...

www.coolslang.com/in/English/index.php?OL=eng&TL=eng... - Cached - SimilarYiddish Words
Crotchety, crabby, ill-manner old man; "old fart"; abbrev. A.K. ..... "Little bird" -
sweet young man or girl; fairy child (derogative: homosexual). Finster un glitshik ...

www.hebrew4christians.com/Glossary/.../yiddish_words.html - Cached - SimilarHow Old Do You Have To Be To Be An OLD FART? - Find Answers ...
22 Aug 2011 ... februarydays - 46-50 years old - female. Posted by februarydays Aug 22nd, 2011
at 1:50PM. Age is completely cerebral. I was married to a man ...

www.experienceproject.com/...Old-Do...OLD-FART/515919 - Cached - Similar

eski :))

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