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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

Caresser des chimères

English translation:

Nurturing illusions / chasing rainbows

Added to glossary by Katarina Peters
Sep 25, 2012 19:06
11 yrs ago
French term

Caresser des chimères

French to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature conte
Bonjour,

Comment traduiriez-vous cette expression "caresser des chimères" ?

Merci de votre aide,
flore
Proposed translations (English)
4 +4 Nurturing illusions / chasing rainbows
4 +1 Let sleeping chimeras lie
4 +1 Cherish your chimera
4 +1 chase fantasies
5 indulging in impossible dreams
3 +2 chasing shadows ... can lead to disaster
4 Reach for your dreams
4 to feed some fantasies
3 +1 indulge in chimera
3 Warped fantasies...can be fatal.
3 hang onto chimerical fantasies / court diabolical dreams
3 Nurturing/harbouring dangerous fantasies can unleash disaster
2 to dream of doing sth
Change log

Oct 6, 2012 14:02: Katarina Peters Created KOG entry

Discussion

Lara Barnett Sep 29, 2012:
Punchline That is up to the asker, but it sometimes help to look at the context of the phrase that needs to be translated, to find the most appropriate term.
cc in nyc Sep 29, 2012:
punchline Maybe the monsters part should be held in abeyance in English until the second part of the sentence, just as it is in the French. ;-)
Lara Barnett Sep 29, 2012:
monsters I also agree that it does not necessarily relate to monsters. However, if you appreciate the context of the Askers question, and read the subsequent phrase, you will see that on this occasion it does relate to monsters.
Jocelyne Cuenin Sep 28, 2012:
Agree with Daryo caresser des chimères ne fait pas du tout penser au monstre.
C'est seulement avoir en tête des rêves qu'on sait irréalisables et ne pas vouloir les abandonner.
Daryo Sep 27, 2012:
the use of monsters "The connection between a "chimera" and a "catastrophe" is also well known" - well, that's for sure not the case in French.
A dragon, a vampire, a werewuf, a gorgona, a hydra, all these are imaginary monsters that are primarily monsters - dangerous creatures; when one appears in a story, the fact they are imaginary is secondary, they represent danger in one form or another.
A chimera, as used figuratively in French is firstly an imaginary creature, something not real, NOT a messenger of doom. (the only danger implied is the one of wasting your time)
"Le paradoxe de la chimère
Pourtant paradoxalement, ce monstre hideux et redouté est devenu le symbole de l'irréalisable, de l'impossible, et le rêve souhaité mais hors d'atteinte que pour nous sont les chimères. "Quelles sont douces à caresser ces chimères ! Nous ne pouvons y résister. Mais, ce faisant, notre main n'effleure que l'absence et le vide. Ce pourquoi sans doute, Banville a écrit : Rien ne nous attire mieux que les sourires décevant de nos chimères".
[http://pages.videotron.com/chimere/bestiaire/chimere.html]
Wolf Draeger Sep 26, 2012:
Not my idea Thanks SafeTex, but it's Lara's idea, not mine :-)
SafeTex Sep 26, 2012:
Wolf Draeger's idea (unleash the beast) Hello everyone

For what it is worth, I think that Wolf's ideas and contribution (unleash the beast) which unfortunately is not an officially suggested translation is EXCELLENT

On the one hand, it has the idea of letting go of all your inhibitions and realising your dreams (perhaps the more sordid ones albeit)

But it also fits in well with the second idea which, for the asker, is important. Catastrophe !!!

Unleashing has the idea of 'no longer under control' and the beast as already said represents what one could call the darker side of human nature

It is surely about as close as anyone could get to what the asker wants
Lara Barnett Sep 26, 2012:
Catastrophes I think it is obvious what the reference being made is here. How the Asker chooses to translate this will be up to her. However, there were many words that could have been used such as "dream" "illusion" "fantasy", but they were not ultimately used. The connection between a "chimera" and a "catastrophe" is also well known. It would be quite a coincidence if these two terms had been put together in any other way.
Wolf Draeger Sep 26, 2012:
@Daryo I think the déclenche des catastrophes segment is a sufficient indication that the usual meaning of chasing rainbows or unrealistic dreams/ambitions does not work here; the FR is not neutral and so the translation shouldn't be either.

But I agree with you about the dangers of rewriting, or of anticipating the rest of the text in one sentence. It is very tempting for translators to be overly "creative" in this kind of situation. Maybe I've crossed the line with my answer :-) but it's up to the Asker to decide now.
Daryo Sep 26, 2012:
@Wolf Draeger For sure, just pulling definitions from dictionaries is not a good practice. If for no other reasons, for the fact that a word on its own can often have several meanings (not all mentioned in all dictionaries, just to make it more "interesting") - so context is always crucial; or even trickier, a word can be part of an expression which gives it a totally new twist, and if you miss that you're gone in some weird direction.
But here you have an expression that on its own is neutral (only to say someone is indulging in unrealistic ideas), so the translation of that expression should stay neutral, and the sinister tone of the whole story should emerge from the text as a whole. I see no need to adapt the translation of "caresser des chimères", especially considering that there is a perfectly usable one-fit-all translation (well, with variants, but all saying basically the same). There’s also the question of knowing at which point you start rewriting a story instead of translating it, but better not start on that one...
Wolf Draeger Sep 26, 2012:
@ Daryo We're talking past each other here; I agree entirely with you as far as the literal meaning of the expression is concerned, but as you well know, context is everything in translation, otherwise we could all pull definitions out of our dictionaries and there would be no need for this site. The point is to find a suitable translation for the expression as it used in a specific context.

The context here (as I understand it, and I may of course be wrong) is of the dysfunction between an individual and society, of pressures to conform and how it can drive a person over the edge to the point where they commit murder; it has little or nothing to do with pursuing one's dreams or ambitions and rather with nurturing what are perceived by society as dangerous illusions - and the crux of the story may very well be that the illusory is in fact real and "reality" as dictated by society is the real illusion; the individual is not allowed to be himself, and this restrictive oppression leads to disaster (death).

Granted, that's inferring a lot from the little context provided, but well :-)
Lara Barnett Sep 26, 2012:
@ Daryo Could be - but I think we need a bit of input from the Asker to be honest.
Daryo Sep 26, 2012:
the expression "caresser des chimères" in itself is only about impossible dreams.
The whole story in the ST hasn't got a happy ending, but that doesn't change the meaning of "caresser des chimères".
In some other stories, these impossible dreams may lead to some very positive results:
"1. caresser (Figuré) Se complaire dans un travail, dans une pensée.
Dire qu'il y a des années que je caresse cette chimère, que je vis avec cette idée folle: mon journal à moi […]. Je l'ai réalisé, ce rêve impossible, je le tiens, l'oiseau bleu, entre mes doigts. Le Justicier. C'est un journal de finance. — (Victor Méric, Les compagnons de l'Escopette, 1930, p.171)"
[http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/caresser]"
So, it you twist the meaning of "caresser des chimères" to fit this example, it should be "being persistent with your ideas until they are realised".
To go back to the example of the driver, a driver is just a driver, weather he's rushing someone to a hospital or getting away from a hold-up; a dreamer of impossible dreams is just that, it's the rest of the story that gives it a sinister or optimistic twist.
Wolf Draeger Sep 26, 2012:
In context Daryo, at face value you are right, but as Lara says, the context gives a sinister meaning to chimera, especially as the mythical character itself is referred to earlier in the script.

So, there is a definite sense of impending disaster, in that the patient is warned to abandon his fantasy and rejoin the "real" world, lest something bad happens. It's all very allegorical.
Lara Barnett Sep 26, 2012:
@ Daryo What counts is the imaginary part, that is true. However, if you read the context of the askers question, "Qui caresse des chimères... déclenche des catastrophes", how can you say "no connotation whatsoever of possible consequences of any kind: beneficial, detrimental, evil, catastrophic or whatever." ??
Daryo Sep 26, 2012:
Imaginary is the key word. A chimera is an imaginary monster.
What counts is the "imaginary" part -
"Caresser des chimères" is about impossible dreams - no connotation whatsoever of possible consequences of any kind: beneficial, detrimental, evil, catastrophic or whatever.
The "monster" part is relevant only in the way that a chimera is a mythical monster - there's no chances you're ever going to meet one (you can only keep dreaming).
Just because it's used in a story where it leads to murder, it doesn't mean the expression in itself has any connection with the consequences of impossible dreams - it simply doesn't imply any.
Just because there’s a driver mentioned in a story about rushing to hospital or robbing a bank doesn’t mean every driver is a Good Samaritan or a bank robber.

"La symbolique de la chimère est vaste et son nom a été repris pour désigner, dans un sens étendu, toutes les créatures composites possédant les attributs de plusieurs animaux ainsi que les rêves ou les fantasmes et les utopies impossibles."
[http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimère_(mythologie)]
Lara Barnett Sep 25, 2012:
@ Kate Exactly - it is the idea of the "chimera" that is important here, not only the associated idea of dreams and illusions - the chimera has a specific meaning and tells a specific story. i.e. "according to Greek mythology, a monstrous fire-breathing female creature of Lycia in Asia Minor, composed of the parts of three animals: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(mythology
Nothing to do with dreamy images of candy floss, pretty colourful images and fun and games.//The idea is a dream or fantasy, but "chimera" as opposed to dream has been used for a reason. This can be seen by the second part of the phrase. However, that's just my take on it.
Kate Collyer Sep 25, 2012:
Agreed Lara, the two are interdependent. I've suggested another option for linking them.
Lara Barnett Sep 25, 2012:
unleashing disasters etc I agree with Carol up to a point, but that is an important part of the context. I always thought that the idea of the Chimera is that a horror can be unleashed from an innocent dream. I think the term "chimera" is related to "unleash" in this sense. i.e. the choice of the first word is dependent on the rest of the phrase.
Carol Gullidge Sep 25, 2012:
unleashing, disasters, etc are all beside the point, since "déclenche des catastrophes" is not the term in question
Wolf Draeger Sep 25, 2012:
Dernière question qu'on aurait du posé plus tôt :-) le scénario sera-t-il doublé ou bien sous-titré en anglais?
Lara Barnett Sep 25, 2012:
@ Wolf Thank you. I have added an extra note to my answer. ""Cherish your chimera and you will unleash your worst disaster/fear""
Wolf Draeger Sep 25, 2012:
@ Lara I think you should have another go with "unleash", "beast" and "disaster", there's a good answer in there somewhere :-)
SafeTex Sep 25, 2012:
Shattered dreams Hello

This is more for the second part

"Qui caresse des chimères... déclenche des catastrophes".
Lara Barnett Sep 25, 2012:
Unleash This word would be appropriate if you went with "chimera" as dream, illusion, fantasy etc do not actually contain the full meaning of "chimera",which is represented by a type of beast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(mythology))- "unleash the beast" is a common phrase in English.
Flore Bargain (asker) Sep 25, 2012:
une psychologue - métaphore pour la société - parle à son patient qui refuse de suivre la voie 'normale', qui devrait être suivie par tous les hommes.

la catastrophe à venir : ce même homme va assassiner quelqu'un.

ça se déroule aujourd'hui.
Le public : adulte (cinéma)
merci !!!
@lara : unleash seems really goog here...
Wolf Draeger Sep 25, 2012:
More context please; what is the theme of the play/script, when is it set, who is the audience (of the French and English versions), what catastrophes are being alluded to? And like Lara asked, who is speaking to whom, and why?
Lara Barnett Sep 25, 2012:
chim... Just translate it literally maybe - chimera is the same thing in English, with all the history and legend behind it.
Try:
"Cherish your chimera and you will unleash your worst disaster/fear"
Lara Barnett Sep 25, 2012:
@ Asker Yes but who is saying this to who and for what reason?
Flore Bargain (asker) Sep 25, 2012:
scénario c'est une ligne de dialogue de scénario.
Il est difficile de donner un contexte car ça fait partie d'une ambiance.

Dialogue : "vous avez oublié notre dernière leçon ? Qui caresse des chimères... déclenche des catastrophes".
Mais il y a au préalable une référence aux Chimères, monstres antiques, donc il faut traduire "caresser des chimères" au sens propre et figuré... Merci de votre aide !
kashew Sep 25, 2012:
No context = no answer!

Proposed translations

+4
16 mins
Selected

Nurturing illusions / chasing rainbows

Two of many other possibilities...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2012-09-25 20:57:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Merriam Webster definition No. 2:

2: an illusion or fabrication of the mind; especially : an unrealizable dream <a fancy, a chimera in my brain, troubles me in my prayer — John Donne>
Peer comment(s):
agree Gloria Franks
1 min
Thank you, Enigma12
agree cc in nyc : nurturing illusions or chasing fantasies
1 hr
Thank you, cc in ny// Have you ever heard the song "I'm forever chasing rainbows"? i.e., forever fantasizing...running after impossible dreams...
neutral Lara Barnett : A rainbow is not a chimera.//I know what it means. The idea of a chimera is to dream up a monster when you intended to dream up something good. - "chasing rainbows" simply means to run after an illusion, not necessarily a monster, fear or chimera.
1 hr
It's not a literal translation - it's an expression meaning to dream of something that is impossible to realize // I know, but I went for chimera as a fantasy, a mere illusion - not necessarily a monster... as there was no context...
agree MatthewLaSon : I do like "chasing rainbows."
1 hr
Thank you Matthew!
neutral Wolf Draeger : "Chasing rainbows" is nice, but it doesn't fit the context here.
1 hr
Right. There was no context with the question... and I went with my first impulse, this is how I understood it.
agree Just Opera : I agree 'nurturing illusions' is more the meaning. To make impossible demands on oneself. Chimera here is more the sense of something that appears to indicate disaster.
2 hrs
Thank you, Just Opera, you are on my wavelength...
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "merci à tous !!!!!"
3 mins

to dream of doing sth

The dictionary says 'to dream of doing something' but honestly, if you want us all to use our imagination, then we need a bit more context.
Does our effort have to rime with the other lines for instance. In that case, you would also have to send your translation so far
Reference:

http://dictionnaire.reverso.net/francais-synonymes/caresser%20une%20chim%C3%A8re

Something went wrong...
12 mins

Reach for your dreams

More context would help, but ... this is common usage; or "Follow your dreams"
Reference:

http://www.cmcweb.org/reach4dreams/

Peer comment(s):
neutral Wolf Draeger : I don't think that's what is meant here ;-)
2 hrs
neutral cc in nyc : after seeing the additional context, this is too positive ;-)
20 hrs
Something went wrong...
30 mins

to feed some fantasies

If you like a bit of alliteration.
Peer comment(s):
neutral cc in nyc : but is that the meaning here?
20 hrs
Possibly.
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

indulge in chimera

As you have said that you would like the word chimera to appear. In fact I'd say that this is quite 'soutenu' - both the caresser (entretenir avec complaisance cf CNTRL) and the chimère.
I agree that it means 'chasing rainbows', but I have tried to word it in a more formal fashion
"He/those who indulges/indulge in chimera engenders/engender catastrophe"
Peer comment(s):
agree Daryo : that works well! "act of indulging in chimeras, ... indulge and foster wild and unfounded fancies." ...[www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Chimera_(mythology)]
1 day 2 hrs
Thanks Daryo!
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

Warped fantasies...can be fatal.

Translating the entire sentence "Qui caresse ses chimères...déclenche des catastrophes", as I think it may be difficult to retain the FR structure and still produce a natural translation, especially the "qui" construct.

It's a big departure from the French in terms of syntax and vocab :-) but I hope it conveys the meaning accurately enough (as I understand it), namely, that the individual's refusal to accept "reality" and immersion in his "fantasy" world will end badly. I guess the film deals with questions of what is real and the conflict of expectations between the individual and society, personal vs communal morality, and so forth.

Not much reference to the Chimera monster, I'm afraid, apart from "warped", which might be too vague or subtle. But I like the ambiguity of "can be fatal", which keeps the viewer guessing.

This answer will not work well if the script is dubbed into EN, but should be OK for subtitling.
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

hang onto chimerical fantasies / court diabolical dreams

The first is an attempt to refer back to the previous allusion to the Chimera (don't know how to form the Ancient Greek plural here). The second follows the figurative sense of the term. In 'caresser' is the idea of cherishing or even obsessing. A 'chimère' is figuratively a flight of the imagination which, if followed, is likely to lead to evil or horrific consequences.
Peer comment(s):
neutral cc in nyc : why not use the English plural: "hang onto chimeras" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/chimera?s=t
1 day 23 hrs
I thought that might possibly be taken too literally, bearing in mind the origin of the term 'chimera'.
Something went wrong...
+1
3 hrs

Let sleeping chimeras lie

If you swap it round so the emphasis is on *not* disturbing a dangerous creature by touching/stroking it (the literal image), then this works very well.

The possibility of contrasting sleeping dogs/chimeras with waking (i.e. awakening) something is also attractive.
Reference:

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Let+sleeping+dogs+lie

Peer comment(s):
agree Colin Rowe : Fun!
11 hrs
Thanks Colin!
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

Cherish your chimera

"Cherish your chimera and you will unleash your worst disaster/fear"

"The Chimera (also Chimaera or Chimæra) ( /kɨˈmɪərə/ or /kaɪˈmɪərə/; Greek: Χίμαιρα, Khimaira, from χίμαρος, khimaros, "she-goat") was, according to Greek mythology, a monstrous fire-breathing female creature of Lycia in Asia Minor, composed of the parts of three animals: a lion, a serpent and a goat. Usually depicted as a lion, with the head of a goat arising from its back, and a tail that ended in a snakes's head,[1] the Chimera was one of the offspring of Typhon and Echidna and a sibling of such monsters as Cerberus and the Lernaean Hydra. The term chimera has also come to describe any mythical or fictional animal with parts taken from various animals."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(mythology)

"unleash the beast" common idiom



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2012-09-25 20:36:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"He is thrust into action by the government to uncover a terrorist of unknown identity who is about to unleash a biologically-engineered virus with the killing power of the “Andromeda Strain”."
http://authonomy.com/books/40994/the-chimera-factor/

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2012-09-25 22:43:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Of course, this comes from the idea of, "cherish one's dreams" being a commonly used expression:

"Take A Moment of Reflection: Cherish Your Dreams"
http://www.guidingchange.com/2012/08/29/take-a-moment-of-ref...


"Cherish your visions and your dreams as they are the children of your soul; the blueprints of your ultimate achievements." -- Napoleon Hill
http://www.thisfunsforyou.com/htdocs/applets/dreams/index.ph...
Example sentence:

"The Chimera is among the plethora of creatures unleashed by Hades into the Earth. A horde of Chimeras is unleashed near Perseus' village, ..."

Reference:

http://clash-of-the-titans.wikia.com/wiki/Chimera

Peer comment(s):
agree Wolf Draeger : Or maybe "hold onto your Chimera and you will unleash disaster" (not your disaster)?
46 mins
Thank you.
Something went wrong...
+1
5 hrs

chase fantasies

A little late – but why not suggest it anyway as an answer?

He who chases fantasies...
Peer comment(s):
agree Daryo : that's the idea.
17 hrs
Thank you.
Something went wrong...
14 hrs

Nurturing/harbouring dangerous fantasies can unleash disaster

Best not to go literal. Unfortunately there are many real-life examples of killers who do just this.
Reference:

http://www.childwise.org/the-dark-knight-rampage/

http://solar.sdsu.edu/Park_Dedication.html

Something went wrong...
20 hrs

indulging in impossible dreams

caresser une chimère v = rêver à
[http://dictionary.reverso.net/french-synonyms/caresser une c...]

"1. caresser (Figuré) Se complaire dans un travail, dans une pensée.
Dire qu'il y a des années que je caresse cette chimère, que je vis avec cette idée folle: mon journal à moi […]. Je l'ai réalisé, ce rêve impossible, je le tiens, l'oiseau bleu, entre mes doigts. Le Justicier. C'est un journal de finance. — (Victor Méric, Les compagnons de l'Escopette, 1930, p.171)"
[http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/caresser]

"chimère (nom féminin) - Définition Mediadico
-- Monstre fabuleux.
-- Poisson marin.
-- Idée irréalisable, vaine imagination.
Expressions de chimère
Vaines, folles chimères. - Caresser une chimère. - Croire à des chimères. - Nourrir son esprit de chimères. - Quitter ces chimères. - Se créer des chimères. - Se forger des chimères. - -
[http://www.mediadico.com/dictionnaire/definition/chimere]
Peer comment(s):
neutral Marian Vieyra : Not in this context...
1 hr
Something went wrong...
+2
1 day 18 hrs

chasing shadows ... can lead to disaster

Not very Greek I know ...
Peer comment(s):
agree Yolanda Broad : "chasing shadows" sets the right tone.
49 mins
agree cc in nyc : nice
8 hrs
Something went wrong...
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