Michael GREEN Jun 6, 2013:

By the way, Asker ... "at least in AE, a Director is higher up the ladder than a Manager" : does that mean your target language is American English? You should, perhaps, have made that clear from the beginning. American business English rivals French in the pomposity stakes .... and before our American colleagues shoot me down, I worked for a famous American multinational for 6 years, and had business dealings with another for 4 years.

Michael GREEN Jun 6, 2013:

@ Jane Thank you for that link, but it's not about "winning the day" ;-)
We are all trying to find a solution to the question, and my 2 cents is based on personal, hands-on bilingual experience in multinationals during a quarter of a century. But business language moves on, and if other contributors have other ideas, well, that's what Proz is about.
I hope you're wrong about it "going against our gut instinct" to translate this correctly ...! Whither translation, if that were the case ...?

Jane Proctor (X) Jun 6, 2013:

@ Asker Marian/Michael may not win the day because it goes against our gut instinct to correctly translate this, but here's one of several dictionary refs: http://dictionnaire.reverso.net/francais-anglais/directeur

jeantrans (X) (asker) Jun 6, 2013:

To Catharine: This is what I've been tentatively going with, so this sounds good to me .... especially given the hour here! ..... hahahaha..... I was thinking the same thing too that, at least in AE, a Director is higher up the ladder than a Manager. Thanks for all the comments and responses....

polyglot45 Jun 6, 2013:

I totally agree with Michael my remark was tongue in cheek - but sadly true

Michael GREEN Jun 6, 2013:

@ Catharine Before I return to my hammock and glass of malt (even in Normandy the weather can turn fine eventually): in my experience (and I'm sorry to keep harping on it) "directeur commercial" means "sales manager" 95% of the time. Members of the Board don't usually attend sales meetings ... and because of the devaluation / inflation of titles, members of the Conseil d'Administration (as opposed to Comité de direction) have titles which distinguish them from mere directeurs (be they "technique", "commercial", "export" or whatever).
And remember that "comité de DIRECTION" is "MANAGEMENT committee" ...

Catharine Cellier-Smart Jun 6, 2013:

Michael you're not being critical, just realistic But without more information we're just whistling down the wind anyway.

Michael GREEN Jun 6, 2013:

It's a cultural thing ... I love France, I've lived here for 35 years and I have French nationality, which entitles me, I believe, to criticise the place from time to time. There has always been a tendency in France to over-inflation of titles and terminology. It's cultural. Compare (eg) the pompous titles give to government ministers here and those in the UK, or indeed, compare Matignon with 10 Downing street. The same applies to business titles, and IMO, translating "directeur" by "director" is akin to transposing the gold leaf and Empire furniture to the more sober style of a UK ministry. So, unless there is concrete evidence that the "directeur" in question is a company officer and sits on the Board (but he would probably be called a "directeur-administrateur" or "administrateur"), I maintain that "Manager" is the correct title in EN. Now I'll shut up ....

Catharine Cellier-Smart Jun 6, 2013:

There is a difference The asker's question was whether there was a difference. Be it supervisor vs manager or manager vs director I think we are all agreed there is a difference.
Whether the «directeur» here is a "manager" or "company director" only Jeantrans can (let us) know - it depends on the size of the company.
I've also seen «Directeur» mistranslated (IMO) as "Manager", in the case of people who obviously ARE company directors.

Michael GREEN Jun 6, 2013:

and another thing, polyglot45 ... I suspect that your "unhappy people with overinflated egos" are FR-speakers who don't understand the difference in EN between director and manager ... personally, I have never had the problem, and regularly translate, eg, "responsable" by "supervisor" without having to confront an angry customer waving a baseball bat ....

Michael GREEN Jun 6, 2013:

@polyglot45 Oh yes, title inflation is one of the bugbears of business life, and has been for years (typists being called "secretaries" and secretaries becoming "PA"s, apart from sales reps being called "territory managers"). But I think we should be careful: as Daryo has said below, a "Director" of an EN company is a company officer with responsibilities that a "manager" (or a "directeur" of a FR company) does not have. I venture to suggest that a translator should provide a faithful rendering of the meaning of the source text, not what the customer wants to hear. But it's not my problem ... ;-)

polyglot45 Jun 6, 2013:

Michael is right but it is often hard to convince the individual - if I translate Directeur by Manager, there are a lot of unhappy people with overinflated egos

Michael GREEN Jun 6, 2013:

Faux amis .... It is often tempting to fall into the trap of translating "directeur" by "director", but if we had the job descriptions they would probably show that we are talking about "managers". With all respect to Catharine, whether the job is regional or national (or international) is neither here nor there. As one of the few Proz members who has actually held these titles in a former existence with international industrial groups, I am confident that in most cases, "directeur" means "manager" and "responsable" should be translated "supervisor". When I was a young "marketing supervisor" with 3M, my French colleague was a "responsable marketing", and in later years "directeur commercial" was a "sales manager". Calling a "directeur export", for example, an "export director" is giving him undeserved promotion above his station ...