geopiet (asker) Aug 25, 2013:

thank you all for your time and effort I've notified the asker of the original question in Eng->Pol group (www.proz.com/kudoz/5303518).
We're awaiting her decision .....

Tony M Aug 20, 2013:

@ Amel It's not even "misused" — it's just an unusual usage, that OED now lists as 'obsolete, except dialect'

Arabic & More Aug 20, 2013:

I agree with Charles that the author seems to have misused the word "overseen" and meant "overlooked" instead. I doubt it goes any deeper than this.

Tony M Aug 20, 2013:

@ Bubz I don't agree with your suggestion that there is a 'conspiracy to ignore' this poor elephant; this is just a less usual usage of 'oversee' (cf. my NS OED quote below)
However, the 'elephant in the drawing-room' metaphor does of course imply that one is ignoring something that is obvious — so in that sense, an element of choice is of course involved.

Beata Claridge Aug 20, 2013:

I don't think you understand, Lukasz. Our deliberate actions are all our actions which have created modern world - the way modern world works is the problem. The way we ignore this problem makes it "an elephant" - this was my idea, anyway, if it is correct or not, that is another question.

Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz Aug 20, 2013:

Deliberate inattention rather. ;)

Beata Claridge Aug 20, 2013:

So we are all in agreement that "oversee" is not as straightforward in this sentence as it may appear, I am very relieved to hear this :)
Charles, you wrote: "overseen" implies deliberate attention,
and I could not agree more. Therefore if I was the author, I would certainly use a word like this if I wanted to specifically imply that it is our deliberate actions that are responsible for existence of the problem. These deliberate actions (the metaphorical "overseeing of the elephant") are all our efforts to create a world like we have today with ready systems in place (setting up the modern systems of finance, banking, business etc. could not have been more deliberate).
Also, please note that it is not Wagner (he is the inspired Austrian who wrote the “Intergenerational War for Equity”, the article quoted in the book) who uses the "elephant phrase", but Randers, the author of the book - a much better writer in my opinion. I still cannot get rid of this idea that the author was deliberately toying with a common phrase and as a result created a unique metaphor here rather than just used a wrong word and made a mistake.

Charles Davis Aug 20, 2013:

By referring to the problem Wagner predicts in his essay -- nothing less than a social cataclysm -- as an elephant in the room, the writer indicates that it is something we really ought to be able to see. And yet we can't see it. In this case, the elephant is not being ignored; it's being overlooked: "we have not noticed".

Charles Davis Aug 20, 2013:

Hi Bubz That's a very interesting question. I have to admit that the interpretation of "overseen" that you suggest had not occurred to me. I am reluctant to say that it is impossible; that seems rather arrogant. All I can say is that after thinking about it and reading the context (which is easy to find on the Internet: http://tinyurl.com/kl3zytc ), I don't believe that meaning is intended.

It is true that the problem of disaffected youth that the writer refers to is one that the older generation has helped to create, but "overseen" implies deliberate attention, whereas the writer is suggesting that we have been unaware of what we have been creating: "we have not noticed that we no longer are being really helpful to our children". If the writer really meant "overseen" in the sense you suggest, I think he/she would have used a different word. "Oversee" is an strange word to use for nurturing a problem. As I say, my immediate reaction was that "overseen" is a mistake for "overlooked". I believe other native English speakers would react that way. If the writer was deliberately using "oversee" rather than "overlook", I think he/she could have expected to be misunderstood.

Beata Claridge Aug 20, 2013:

Hi Charles,
Sorry for predominantly Polish discussions, I will try to sum up my doubts in English. I gather that most of us understand by now what "an elephant in the room" is, we had a look at Wikipedia, dictionaries etc; what we seem to dwell upon is the meaning of word "overseen" when combined with our proverbial elephant. Can it really mean "not seen" "unnoticed" (by definition, 'elephant in the room' means 'an obvious but ignored problem/truth')
I am not a native speaker (therefore not sure) yet I have a strong suspicion that 'overseen' here might mean that we actually had helped nourish the said elephant at the first place; we, ourselves, have our part in creating this problem that we are now commonly ignoring. Please tell me if this makes any sense to you at all.

Charles Davis Aug 20, 2013:

""Elephant in the room" is an English metaphorical idiom for an obvious truth that is either being ignored or going unaddressed. The idiomatic expression also applies to an obvious problem or risk no one wants to discuss.
It is based on the idea that an elephant in a room would be impossible to overlook; thus, people in the room who pretend the elephant is not there have chosen to avoid dealing with the looming big issue."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_in_the_room

Charles Davis Aug 20, 2013:

I don't understand Polish but from what I've seen in the discussion on the other EN>PL question, the point has already been made that "overseen" has been misused here. The writer has confused "oversee" (supervise) with "overlook" (fail to notice). He or she clearly meant "a commonly overlooked elephant".

And yet even "overlook" is not really the right word, because the point about the "elephant in the room" is not that people overlook it (fail to notice it) but that they ignore it (pretend that they can't see it). "Oversee" doesn't mean that, but neither does "overlook". So this is really not a very good piece of writing in English.

geopiet (asker) Aug 19, 2013:

Thanks Dariusz and Łukasz

See related question in En-Pl -> http://www.proz.com/kudoz/5303518

Beata Claridge Aug 19, 2013:

Pytanko, czy panowie faktycznie planuja umiescic slonia w tlumaczeniu??