Mar 23, 2016 14:36
8 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term

Rueckschliessend

German to English Art/Literary Architecture
Wir erkennen Objecte/Situationen, indem wir sie rueckschliessend ueber den Kontext definieren und dabei so viele Ambivalenzen wie moeglich ausschliessen.

I am confused about "Rueckschliessend" here as having both it and "definieren" in the same sentence without an "und" makes it (to me) somewhat unworkable.

The best I can come up with is:

We recognise objects/situations by determining them within the defined context, and eliminating as many ambivalences as possible.

Rueckschliessen is to conclude, but with a D at the end, does the meaning of the word change, to perhaps "retrospectively" or something? I have a feeling I am completely wrong here and this is much easier than I think.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 deductively
4 +3 by inference
3 deduce afterwards
2 in reference to

Discussion

Markus Heinrich (asker) Mar 23, 2016:
Well at least my questions are sparking some interesting discussions! As I said in a previous post, I will speak to the author and find out what he meant with all the terms we are chewing on. I will post his explanation (somewhere?) so they can be put to rest.
Paul Cohen Mar 23, 2016:
"Je pense, donc je suis" - Descartes Perhaps I'm waxing philosophical here, but when we talk about the subjectivity of perception, I wonder whether we can define anything at all based solely on how we view our surroundings. What are the "facts" of a given situation? The only thing we know for certain is that we think we know things because, at the very least, certain notions exist inside our heads. I think, therefore I am (Descartes).

"I see this thing that I could sit on, and it looks like an inviting place to rest my tired bones, therefore, I'll define it as a chair."

Whethere or not we are deducing or inferring from a context is perhaps, ultimately, a philosophical question.

I wonder what the author would say about all of these reflections!?
Ramey Rieger (X) Mar 23, 2016:
Then it would be We identify objects and situations by defining them within our experience of the surrounding context...
Pity, nice discussion, but I have an appointment!
Helen Shiner Mar 23, 2016:
Deduction Maybe a deduction in this context might be something along the lines of "well, it says in the accompanying literature that there would be chairs, so this strange-looking object must be one of them." It's a fine line, and I imagine many people don't use the terms as precisely as one might (me included in my normal life).
Ramey Rieger (X) Mar 23, 2016:
Actually ALL definitions are inferences, when taken from the point of view that all definition are based on subjective perception. As the author does not go deeper within this particular sentence, then I am deducing what MAY be in the text, which is once more subjective perception - not always useful in translation.
Helen Shiner Mar 23, 2016:
Inference What is happening here, I think, is that we (the we in the text) make sense of an environment based on what we have experienced of environments thus far in our lives. We may, for instance, never have seen such a new-fangled, strange-looking object as presents itself in an avant-garde space, but since it approximates to our understanding of what a chair is, we presume it is a chair. I don't think this is really about 'facts' as such, but more about contextual experience.
Paul Cohen Mar 23, 2016:
The difference between deduction and inference @Ramey, yes, absolutely, that's what it means. But I think the author wants to dig even deeper and explore the underlying process by which we define our surroundings. Do we make deductions or inferences? Or perhaps both? Or is something else involved?

After reading Helen's suggestion, I was a bit confused about the difference between the two. I found this explanation (from a blog called "explain like I'm five") particularly helpful:

"A deduction is where you take several statements or facts and say, "You said you went to medical school, work in a hospital, and you saw a person you referred to as a 'patient'. I deduce that you are a doctor." It is an educated guess, that is probably correct.

An inference is less concrete. "You said you were a doctor, from that I infer that you are intelligent, care about people, and work in a hospital."

Think of a deduction as taking a lot of information, and distilling it down to one fact, an inference is the opposite, take one fact, and extrapolate it out into several inferences.

Deduction = Fact X + Fact Y + Fact Z = A

Inference = A (therefore I assume) Fact X, Fact Y, and Fact Z."



Ramey Rieger (X) Mar 23, 2016:
Redundancy We identify objects and situations by defining them within the surrounding context, thereby eliminating as much ambivalence as possible.
Markus Heinrich (asker) Mar 23, 2016:
No he is taking about how space is perceived by us based on the objects within it, and our perceptions of objects etc so I am almost positive he is not talking about buildings
philgoddard Mar 23, 2016:
I think the idea is "conclusively", but I'm not sure what the whole sentence means. Are you sure "Objekte" doesn't mean "buildings/projects"? Is this architects talking about how they operate?

Proposed translations

+2
22 mins
Selected

deductively

"We recognise objects/situations by deductively defining them based on the context ... "

To deduce: to use logic or reason to form a conclusion or opinion about something

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Note added at 25 mins (2016-03-23 15:02:27 GMT)
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As Phil has pointed out, an "Objekt" (spelled with a "K") often refers to a building in German architectural texts. Something to keep in mind.
Peer comment(s):

agree philgoddard : Hi there! This would fit the context, but do you have any references?// You've convinced me.
12 mins
Hey there, Phil. No references except for the dictionary def. of Rückschluss: eine logische Folgerung, die man aus etwas ableiten kann und die über etwas anderes Auskunft gibt (Langenscheidt)
agree Helen Shiner : Yes, either of our answers would work./Pure intuition, Paul ;)
1 hr
Is that an inference or a deduction, Helen?
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I think you are right here, though I suppose it is impossible to tell for sure :) Thank you for all your help"
35 mins

in reference to

We recognize subjects/objects in that we define them by referring back to context.
But "referring back/back reference" is a bit of double Dutch because "refer to something" already implies the fact's previous existence.

The best may be "by defining them in reference to context"

Of course, the more mundane "by resorting to context" "falling back on...", "harking back to....", or "by reverting back to..." are also possible
Something went wrong...
+3
57 mins

by inference

Rückschliessen as means to infer.

http://classroom.synonym.com/difference-between-inference-dr...



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Note added at 1 hr (2016-03-23 16:04:22 GMT)
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*also means

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Note added at 5 hrs (2016-03-23 19:58:17 GMT)
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I would use 'perceive' or 'discern' here, I think, rather than 'recognise'. We perceive objects by inference ... or in that ... Recognition is too absolute. This is about what we think we recognise or about an approximation that is good enough to allow us to navigate the world.
Note from asker:
If it is inference, how would the sentence look like? "we recognise objects/situations by inference...
Peer comment(s):

agree Paul Cohen : I have to admit that I never really thought much about the difference between inference and deduction until today!
40 mins
Thanks. It feels a bit like a maths lesson, so my brain is getting very tired.
agree Edith Kelly
55 mins
Thanks, EdithK
neutral philgoddard : I think this is too similar to Paul's answer.
1 hr
Thanks, Phil, but I don't, as explained in the discussion box.
agree tr_dg
5 days
Thanks, Daniel
Something went wrong...
6 hrs

deduce afterwards

But maybe "deductively" from Paul Cohen is better here. I'm not sure.
Something went wrong...
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