Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
Femelles Grands Parentales / Mâles Grands Parentaux
English translation:
granddams / grandsires
Added to glossary by
Charles Davis
Oct 11, 2016 14:42
7 yrs ago
French term
Femelles Grands Parentales / Mâles Grands Parentaux
French to English
Other
Livestock / Animal Husbandry
rabbits
Part of a list in a text about breeding rabbits is as follows:
Femelles Grands Parentales
Femelles Parentales
Mâles Parentaux et Grands Parentaux
Anyone able to explain how the "grand(s)" should be understood/translated here?
Any suggestions very much appreciated.
Femelles Grands Parentales
Femelles Parentales
Mâles Parentaux et Grands Parentaux
Anyone able to explain how the "grand(s)" should be understood/translated here?
Any suggestions very much appreciated.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | granddams / grandsires |
Charles Davis
|
| 5 | Females GPD (grand parental doe) /Males GPC (grand parental coney) |
pascie
|
| 4 -1 | Large Doe Parent / Large Buck Parent |
pascie
|
Change log
Oct 14, 2016 18:13: Charles Davis Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+1
1 hr
Selected
granddams / grandsires
Note that it says "femelles grands parentales", not "grandes parentales". This reflects the fact that "grand" doesn't mean big here. This is talking about grandparents. Of course, since rabbits breed like... well, rabbits, they can become grandparents in very short order.
I first twigged to this through this page, which advertises:
"Femelle grand-parentale, Mâle grand parental"
http://www.granjajordan.com/fr.html
And in the English version:
"Maternal grandmother rabbit, Grandfather"
http://www.granjajordan.com/en.html
Anyway, I'm sure this is the meaning. See here, on p. 139, where you'll see a diagram of rabbit generations, with the generations going down from "Arrière-grands-parentaux (AGP)" to "Grands-parentaux (GP)" to "Parentaux (P)".
http://www.fao.org/docrep/014/t1690f/t1690f.pdf
In English a rabbit grandfather is called a grandsire, and a grandmother is called a granddam. "Male" and "female" are redundant, since the English terms are gendered.
"Sire: Father of a rabbit (Grandsire, Great-Grandsire, etc).
Dam: Mother of a rabbit (Granddam, Great-Granddam, etc)."
http://www.edelweissranch.com/rabbit-lingo-demystified.html
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Note added at 2 hrs (2016-10-11 16:50:14 GMT)
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(Grand)dam and (grand)sire, by the way, are not just used in showing. They are standard in commercial rabbit production for meat:
https://books.google.es/books?id=ZY-8F9MwBWsC&pg=PA198&lpg=P...
"Commercial livestock producers often use sire and dam (father & mother) breeds of recognized merit to produce crossbred offspring for market. The crossbreeds give more efficient performance and greater profits. In Europe, the sophisticated use of commercial sire and dam breeds to produce crossbred fryer rabbits (young meat animals) is widely practiced."
http://www.justrabbits.com/altex-rabbit.html#gs.D2r7JkA
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Note added at 2 hrs (2016-10-11 16:54:01 GMT)
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By the way, French breed names tend to use "géant" rather than "grand" for "large". But that's irrelevant anyway; there is absolutely nothing to connect these French terms to breeds or genetics.
I first twigged to this through this page, which advertises:
"Femelle grand-parentale, Mâle grand parental"
http://www.granjajordan.com/fr.html
And in the English version:
"Maternal grandmother rabbit, Grandfather"
http://www.granjajordan.com/en.html
Anyway, I'm sure this is the meaning. See here, on p. 139, where you'll see a diagram of rabbit generations, with the generations going down from "Arrière-grands-parentaux (AGP)" to "Grands-parentaux (GP)" to "Parentaux (P)".
http://www.fao.org/docrep/014/t1690f/t1690f.pdf
In English a rabbit grandfather is called a grandsire, and a grandmother is called a granddam. "Male" and "female" are redundant, since the English terms are gendered.
"Sire: Father of a rabbit (Grandsire, Great-Grandsire, etc).
Dam: Mother of a rabbit (Granddam, Great-Granddam, etc)."
http://www.edelweissranch.com/rabbit-lingo-demystified.html
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2016-10-11 16:50:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
(Grand)dam and (grand)sire, by the way, are not just used in showing. They are standard in commercial rabbit production for meat:
https://books.google.es/books?id=ZY-8F9MwBWsC&pg=PA198&lpg=P...
"Commercial livestock producers often use sire and dam (father & mother) breeds of recognized merit to produce crossbred offspring for market. The crossbreeds give more efficient performance and greater profits. In Europe, the sophisticated use of commercial sire and dam breeds to produce crossbred fryer rabbits (young meat animals) is widely practiced."
http://www.justrabbits.com/altex-rabbit.html#gs.D2r7JkA
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2016-10-11 16:54:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
By the way, French breed names tend to use "géant" rather than "grand" for "large". But that's irrelevant anyway; there is absolutely nothing to connect these French terms to breeds or genetics.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
B D Finch
: !
8 mins
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Thanks, Barbara :) I do like the English terms here.
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| disagree |
pascie
: The link shows that they are Large White (genetics term)
18 mins
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I am 100% sure you are wrong about that. I see no link to the French term, so your suggestion has no documentary support. And how do you explain "femelles grands parentales"?
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| agree |
philgoddard
: I don't know which link pascie is talking about, but the confusion is the result of the hyphens being omitted in the French,
22 mins
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Thanks, Phil. It would be helpful if they were there, but it seems they often aren't.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I'm still not 100% certain, but am leaning in this direction for now. Thanks for your excellent efforts. And thanks to everyone else who answered or commented. All contributions very much appreciated as always."
-1
27 mins
Large Doe Parent / Large Buck Parent
"Grand" here refers to genetic response in crossbreeding aimed to develop new breeds of small or large livestock.
This will allow breeders of these "engineered" breeds to present them in livestock fair and compete for the rabbit parent showmanship.
This crossbreeding technique allows to produce stronger and safe new rabbit variety.
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Note added at 33 mins (2016-10-11 15:16:11 GMT)
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A giant breed is also produced with the Flemish Giant rabbit variety. (15 to 22 pounds)!!!
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Note added at 1 hr (2016-10-11 16:18:08 GMT)
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The link posted by Charles Davis shows the Large White which is a genetic reference.
I agree with terms 'dam' and 'sire' only if the purpose of this breeding is for showmanship.
If the purpose of that particular breeding is for fur then it relates to angora. In that case, you are dealing with Large White doe parent and Large white buck parent. Maybe there is some clues in the original text.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2016-10-11 21:18:09 GMT)
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Femelle parentale = crossbred rabbit doe (between 2 selected lines) mother of the rabbits produced for
slaughter
This will allow breeders of these "engineered" breeds to present them in livestock fair and compete for the rabbit parent showmanship.
This crossbreeding technique allows to produce stronger and safe new rabbit variety.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 33 mins (2016-10-11 15:16:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
A giant breed is also produced with the Flemish Giant rabbit variety. (15 to 22 pounds)!!!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2016-10-11 16:18:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The link posted by Charles Davis shows the Large White which is a genetic reference.
I agree with terms 'dam' and 'sire' only if the purpose of this breeding is for showmanship.
If the purpose of that particular breeding is for fur then it relates to angora. In that case, you are dealing with Large White doe parent and Large white buck parent. Maybe there is some clues in the original text.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2016-10-11 21:18:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Femelle parentale = crossbred rabbit doe (between 2 selected lines) mother of the rabbits produced for
slaughter
Reference:
https://world-rabbit-science.com/WRSA-Proceedings/Congress-2008-Verona/Papers/G-GuZilin.pdf
http://www.sacfair.com/pdf/2013/04-02/2013_Livestock_Horse_and_Dog_Show_Competitive_Handbook.pdf
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
philgoddard
: If "grand" meant large, it would be "femelles grandes".
1 hr
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|
We are in the genetics context. Formulation may be quite differente
|
2 hrs
Females GPD (grand parental doe) /Males GPC (grand parental coney)
Upon further digging, here is what seems to be used by rabbit breeders. And knowing the context was in France.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2016-10-11 20:47:37 GMT)
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http://www.cuniculture.info/Docs/Magazine/Magazine2007/mag34...
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Note added at 6 hrs (2016-10-11 21:14:55 GMT)
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Femelle parentale = crossbred rabbit doe (between 2
selected line) mother of the rabbits produced for
slaughter.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2016-10-11 21:22:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Correction: crossbred parental female or doe
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2016-10-11 20:47:37 GMT)
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http://www.cuniculture.info/Docs/Magazine/Magazine2007/mag34...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2016-10-11 21:14:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Femelle parentale = crossbred rabbit doe (between 2
selected line) mother of the rabbits produced for
slaughter.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2016-10-11 21:22:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Correction: crossbred parental female or doe
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Charles Davis
: Hi again. Can you find any examples of these expressions in sources written in English and not translated from French? I can't. In fact I can't even find them in your link. // French authors and no use of proposed term(s)
30 mins
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http://animres.edpsciences.org/articles/animres/pdf/2002/05/...
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| neutral |
philgoddard
: I can't find them either, and the translation of the home page is awful, which doesn't bode well for the rest of the site.
3 hrs
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Discussion