Muriel Vasconcellos Aug 17, 2018:

Final comment If 'rustic' has so many meanings in English acceptable in this context, I don't think it's advisable to overthink the exact meaning because it so easily could be wrong.

Muriel Vasconcellos Aug 17, 2018:

Full context? Maybe "rústico" is referring to an earlier antecedent in the sentence. (I can't believe we've had this much discussion without seeing the full context!)

Robert Carter Aug 17, 2018:

@Muriel You're right, "rústico" doesn't modify "taza", but even native speakers can get agreement wrong, particularly in a scenario where they might be jotting things down as they go along. Who knows, perhaps the writer just made the agreement with "baño color rosa" without thinking or re-reading?

Robert Carter Aug 17, 2018:

@Reed Yes, I completely agree with your note to my answer. I'm assuming the social worker is trying to describe the conditions in the prospective home to the person or persons responsible for making the decision on the adoption.

I very much doubt that would include notes on the stylistic choices of the adoptive family, but rather on the level of amenities provided in the home, specifically aspects like plumbing, electricity, structural soundness, etc., even cleanliness.

A note regarding the whole "rustic style" idea: while the style of course does exist, I'm not sure I've ever seen a rustic-style toilet bowl as such. The bathroom itself could be decorated that way, but toilet bowls here are generally either low- or high-tech ceramics, never anything else (at least here).

Anecdotally, I was scouring the bathroom fittings shops in the center of Mexico City last week looking for a slightly non-standard seat fitting, and I can tell you that as far as the actual bowls go, I saw absolutely nothing other than relatively normal-looking ones, at hugely differing prices, but no "rustic" ones at all.

This just occurred to me: perhaps "rudimentary" would sound less judgmental than "crude".

Muriel Vasconcellos Aug 17, 2018:

Sticking with 'rustic' It's vague in Spanish and the word has many meanings in both languages. Several of the definitions in English apply as well. If we try to second-guess the exact meaning, it could be wrong.

Muriel Vasconcellos Aug 17, 2018:

Best yet Rachel says: "rustic" toilet, pink bowl.
I think that's the best solution so far. I think it refers to the toilet in general, not the bowl or the seat.
See definition #5 from Merriam-Webster International Dictionary:

1 : of or relating to the country : RURAL *rude carts, bespattered with rustic mire— Charles Dickens*
2 : of or relating to rustic work
3 a : having an appearance or manner held to resemble country folk *a splendid primeval rustic figure— Osbert Lancaster* b : living in a rural area : engaged in country occupations (as farming) *one of the few victories in all history of rustic untrained volunteers over professional soldiers— Budd Schulberg*
4 : having or exhibiting qualities held to be characteristic of rural people: as a : marked by awkwardness : lacking polish : COARSE, RUDE *rustic readiness to jeer at the unusual— H.O.Taylor* b : marked by simplicity : ARTLESS *if education had not meddled with her rustic nature— Jean Stafford* *participating in these rustic occasions— P.L.Fermor*
5 : adapted or appropriate to the country or country living : ROUGH, STURDY : lacking in ornamentation *had a rustic shanty and arbor— Herman Melville*

Charles Davis Aug 16, 2018:

If it does mean "estilo rústico", then rustic is fine. You can certainly have rustic furniture: tables, chairs, bookshelves, and so on. But a rustic toilet? And in pink? I'm no expert on home furnishings, but I find that a very odd idea. In Europe and the US, pink toilets came into fashion in the 1950s, and you still saw them in the 70s, but they were supposed to look modern, not rustic.

Anahí Seri Aug 16, 2018:

Mexico - Spain Just one more comment and I say good night:
The Spanish rustic style is not exactly the same as the Mexican, as you can see via google images typing "rustic furniture Mexico" and "rustic furniture Spain"

Charles Davis Aug 16, 2018:

@Anahí "Rústico" does quite often refer to furnishing style, but it's certainly not limited to that. It can imply lack of convenience and (as I said) sophistication. One of the basic meanings of "rústico" is "tosco", and that is not just a matter of style but can include how well things work. If you say "las instalaciones son un poco rústicas", it can refer to comfort and convenience. Take this quotation, for example: "Tenga en cuenta que la entrada está en la parte trasera de la casa, que es un terreno inclinado y que requerirá caminar por el patio para llegar a la entrada, por lo que es un poco rústico (no apto para personas con problemas de equilibrio)" ( https://www.homeaway.es/p1094124vb )

Perhaps "state" was not the right word; I don't think it refers to whether the toilet is broken or not. But functional qualities can certainly be included in "rústico".

Anahí Seri Aug 16, 2018:

rustic furniture I am myself surprised to find so many instances of this. For example:
https://www.pinterest.es/pin/408631366183182598/?lp=true

Anahí Seri Aug 16, 2018:

about "rústico" Charles says " If there is an implied noun, I think it's more likely to be the state of the toilet rather than its style, or at least, let us say, its functional rather than its aesthetic qualities" I don't agree. In Spanish this adjective does not describe the state or functional qualities, but just the furnishing style
Charles again:"I'm not so sure that "rustic" is a natural way to express the same idea in English." Here I agree.

Charles Davis Aug 16, 2018:

Grammatically, "rústico" can't modify "taza", no. But it doesn't follow that it must imply the noun "estilo". It could be just a general descriptor, not linked in the writer's mind to any noun in particular. If there is an implied noun, I think it's more likely to be the state of the toilet rather than its style, or at least, let us say, its functional rather than its aesthetic qualities. And this is largely for the reason Robert mentioned: the style of the toilet is in principle irrelevant here; only its functional qualities are worth mentioning.

I think the meaning of "rústico" here is along the lines of unsophisticated, in some sense or other. I think it can mean that in Spanish, but I'm not so sure that "rustic" is a natural way to express the same idea in English.

Muriel Vasconcellos Aug 16, 2018:

@ Robert How can "rústico" modify "taza"?

'Rustic style' doesn't necessarily have to be an architectural term. Still, I've modified my answer to say:

toilet (rustic), pink bowl

Robert Carter Aug 16, 2018:

Regarding the question of "rustic style", I would just mention that, while plausible or even probable in purely linguistic terms, the context here is a social worker's report, so I'm not sure whether it would be required in a description of the home to include what stylistic choices the homeowner made in their bathroom. Surely the relevance here is the availability of amenities, i.e., whether it has running water, a seat, etc?
Perhaps Christian is closer to the mark here, though I think "unglazed" might be over-translating this.

Muriel Vasconcellos Aug 16, 2018:

@ Rachel You've encouraged me to post the answer.

Christian [email protected] Aug 16, 2018:

Unglazed? Many, many years ago, I visited a toilet (bowl) factory. I remember thinking that the unfinished fixtures were beautiful, with their (pinkish) baked clay color. They would later be glazed white, which would make them more hygienic and cleanable.

Rachel Fell Aug 16, 2018:

@Muriel: yes, I think it means "estilo rústico" too.

Muriel Vasconcellos Aug 16, 2018:

"Rústico" is masculine ...whereas "taza" is feminine. I'm wondering if it's short for "estilo rústico". Following this reasoning, it might be:
toilet (rustic style), pink bowl

Reed James (asker) Aug 15, 2018:

@Charles Been there, done that... And you might want to bring some TP just in case.

Charles Davis Aug 15, 2018:

Reed: I agree with you; "sentado en la taza" implies on the seat, not on the bowl. Though if you go to a public toilet and the toilets have no seats (as certainly happens sometimes in Spain), and you really can't wait, well...

Charles Davis Aug 15, 2018:

If you look at Google images of "tazas de baño" in Mexico, most of them (not all) have seats. Though this one might not, especially if "rústico" implies "basic", as Robert suggests (I think rightly).

If you say there's a toilet in the bathroom, and it turns out not to have a seat, you can't actually say it was a lie. If you say there's a toilet bowl and say nothing about the seat, I think most people would assume there is no seat. And in this case there might be. Which is why I would translate this as "toilet", not "toilet seat".

Helena Chavarria Aug 15, 2018:

In Spain, the 'taza' is the 'bowl' but according to the Wikipedia article I posted earlier:

Otras denominaciones
Escusado o su variante escrita con “x”, excusado.
Retrete, palabra que significa ‘retiro pequeño’ (retirete) y por tanto se tendría que referir más bien al local reducido donde se pone el inodoro.
Sanitario
Servicio
Taza o taza de baño
Poceta, en Venezuela (refiriéndose al método antiguo de eliminación de excrementos: en un pozo).
Váter o wáter (pronunciando el inglés water como "báter")
Wáter clóset o WC, que proviene del término inglés water closet (‘armario o gabinete del agua’), en referencia a la pequeña habitación y al artefacto contenido en ella donde se depositaban los desechos humanos, que corresponde más o menos con el término castellano retrete.

Reed James (asker) Aug 15, 2018:

More info This particular house is in "obra negra" meaning that just the shell is ready. So could those walls be crude cement or unfinished cement. Same with the toilet.

Also, I've heard "Estaba sentado en la taza." If it means bowl, then you can't be sitting on the bowl, but rather the seat. That's why I mentioned seat originally.

Charles Davis Aug 15, 2018:

Literally "toilet bowl", yes, but in practice "taza de baño" is normally understood to include the seat and cover (asiento and tapa) as well (not always, but usually). Just toilet (or WC) is the appropriate translation here.

Rachel Fell Aug 15, 2018:

toilet bowl - yes, I just meant that's the name for the "taza"

Helena Chavarria Aug 15, 2018:

According to Wikipedia, it's just another name for a toilet.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inodoro

For the UK, I would say 'old-fashioned toilet'.

Anahí Seri Aug 15, 2018:

Google images look at the images for "baño rústico" to get an idea. These bathrooms look like classic living rooms rather than proper bathrooms. Not my style. The toilet seat is surely made of dark wood.

Anahí Seri Aug 15, 2018:

the whole of it It's definitely the whole toilet.
"rüstico" is a decoration style similar to the way Spanish country houses were fitted out maybe one or two centuries ago. It's so to say the opposite of Ikea style: dark wood, ornaments. Classic perhaps. I suggest you look at Google images typing "muebles rústicos"