Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
préscrire contre son bailleur par quelque laps que ce soit
English translation:
forbidding a tenant from claiming ownership by prescription against the land owner, ...
Added to glossary by
Scott de Lesseps
Oct 15, 2018 22:55
5 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term
préscrire contre son bailleur par quelque laps que ce soit
French to English
Law/Patents
Business/Commerce (general)
Haitian French
From a summons:
“Un fermier ne peut jamis préscrire contre son bailleur par quelque laps que ce soit selon l’article 2004
du code civil d’HAITI. [Company X] a cessé de payer à partifr de 1923 ayant été achetée par la compagnie[Company Y] et solidairement avec les autres compagnies impliquées dans l’escroquerie la plus scandaleuse et inqualifiable du vingtième siècle et aussi les administratuers [Company X] doivent tirer leur révérence et remettre à CESAR ce qui APPARTIENT à CESAR …. »
I think "fermier" means "leaseholder" in this context.
I found this other Kudoz question, but I'm still not sure which one of those answers is best for this text. Target audience is US. Thanks.
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/216...
“Un fermier ne peut jamis préscrire contre son bailleur par quelque laps que ce soit selon l’article 2004
du code civil d’HAITI. [Company X] a cessé de payer à partifr de 1923 ayant été achetée par la compagnie[Company Y] et solidairement avec les autres compagnies impliquées dans l’escroquerie la plus scandaleuse et inqualifiable du vingtième siècle et aussi les administratuers [Company X] doivent tirer leur révérence et remettre à CESAR ce qui APPARTIENT à CESAR …. »
I think "fermier" means "leaseholder" in this context.
I found this other Kudoz question, but I'm still not sure which one of those answers is best for this text. Target audience is US. Thanks.
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/216...
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 -1 | forbidding a tenant from claiming ownership by prescription against the land owner, ... |
Daryo
|
| 3 -1 | claim against the lessor for any (and all) lapses that may arise |
David Hollywood
|
Change log
Oct 15, 2018 23:05: writeaway changed "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "Haitian French"
Proposed translations
-1
16 hrs
French term (edited):
interdisant à un fermier par quelque laps de temps que ce soit de prescrire contre son bailleur
Selected
forbidding a tenant from claiming ownership by prescription against the land owner, ...
.... interdisant à un fermier par quelque laps de temps que ce soit de prescrire contre son bailleur
=
.... that is forbidding a tenant from claiming ownership by prescription against the land owner, no matter how long is the time elapsed.
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Note added at 2 days 20 hrs (2018-10-18 19:31:27 GMT)
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another term also used, that could apply here, is "adverse possession":
.... that is forbidding a tenant from claiming ownership over rented land by adverse possession, no matter how long is the time elapsed.
Adverse possession, sometimes colloquially described as "squatter's rights",[a] is a legal principle that applies when a person who does not have legal title to a piece of property—usually land (real property)—attempts to claim legal ownership based upon a history of possession or occupation of the land without the permission of its legal owner.
In general, a property owner has the right to recover possession of their property from unauthorized possessors through legal action such as ejectment. However, in the English common law tradition, courts have long ruled that when someone occupies a piece of property without permission and the property's owner does not exercise their right to recover their property for a significant period of time, not only is the original owner prevented from exercising their right to exclude, but an entirely new title to the property springs up in the adverse possessor. In effect, the adverse possessor becomes the property's new owner.[b] Over time, legislatures have created statutes of limitations that specify the length of time that owners have to recover possession of their property from adverse possessors. In the United States, for example, these time limits vary widely between individual states, ranging from as low as five years to as many as 40 years.
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
GILLES MEUNIER
: vous confondez bailleur et locataire
2 days 23 hrs
|
|
FYI there is such a thing as a "tenant" renting just land, it doesn't apply only to buildings. There are basics you won't find explained in any glossary ...
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "This makes sense and seems coorect to me. Thank you to everyone."
-1
1 hr
David Hollywood
Native in English
Specializes in field
worked for int. orgs (IMF, OAS, IDB)
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
55
claim against the lessor for any (and all) lapses that may arise
maybe
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Daryo
: the claim is not "for" any (and all) lapses that may arise, but it's a claim on land ownership "based on / on the grounds of" elapsed time of de facto possession, however long that time period might be.
14 hrs
|
Reference comments
8 hrs
Reference:
Fermier et fermage
Hello
See my reference and do a word search for "fermier" and "fermage" and note in particular page 10
Seems to be an occupant of the land for several generations without papers but convinced the land is theirs.
See my reference and do a word search for "fermier" and "fermage" and note in particular page 10
Seems to be an occupant of the land for several generations without papers but convinced the land is theirs.
Note from asker:
| Thanks, SafeTex. This is my understanding also. So do you think "ownership by precription" could work here and then something like "through any period of time"? |
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Daryo
: useful, but far more relevant references can be found
7 hrs
|
15 hrs
Reference:
LETTRE OUVERTE AUX HONORABLES JUGES DE LA COUR DE CASSATION DE LA REPUBLIQUE D’ HAITI
LETTRE OUVERTE AUX HONORABLES JUGES DE LA COUR DE CASSATION DE LA REPUBLIQUE D’ HAITI
AU CONSEIL SUPERIEUR DE LA MAGISTRATURE
AU BATONNIER DE L’ORDRE DES AVOCATS DU BARREAU DE PORT-AU-PRINCE
Déontologie judiciaire et Ethique professionnelle s’imposent
Le 7 Mai 1996, le Tribunal de PREMIERE INSTANCE de Port-au-Prince, rendit un jugememt en faveur des héritiers SOUFFRANT et condamna la compagnie américaine HASCO a‘ déguerpir des lieux et a’ payer des dommages-intérets .
Grégory MEVS prétendant étre Président de Hasco et Huguette MEVS en tant que Vice-Président de la compagnie , tous deux interjetérent Appel devant la COUR d’Appel de Port-au-Prince contre ce jugement de Premiére instance.
La COUR d’APPEL par son Arrét de 1997 déclarera HASCO propriétaire des terres des SOUFFRANT sur l’habitation ‘’LAMORINIERE’’ de la Plaine du Cul de sac , de la Croix des Bouquets, sous le fallacieux prétexte que HASCO les avait obtenues par prescription de plus de Vingt ans , faisant fi de l’article 2004 du code civil d’HAITI, interdisant a un fermier par quelque laps de temps que ce soit de prescrire contre son bailleur.
La Cour d’Appel osa méme condamner les demandeurs SOUFFRANT a‘ des dommages-intéréts pour abus du droit d’assigner.
La COUR de CASSATION, haut lieu du droit, par son ARRET rendu en 1997, confirma l’Arrét de la Cour d’APPEL de PORT-AU-PRINCE.
La cause des SOUFFRANT ÉTAIT PERDUE et HASCO CONTINUA a jouir impunément des terres
....
http://www.forumhaiti.com/t2407-dossiers-corruption#
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Note added at 15 hrs (2018-10-16 14:49:33 GMT)
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in plain speak: a tenant [there is no "leaseholder" outside of Common law legal system] can never claim to have acquired "ownership by prescription" on the rented land, according to this "article 2004 du code civil d’HAITI".
AU CONSEIL SUPERIEUR DE LA MAGISTRATURE
AU BATONNIER DE L’ORDRE DES AVOCATS DU BARREAU DE PORT-AU-PRINCE
Déontologie judiciaire et Ethique professionnelle s’imposent
Le 7 Mai 1996, le Tribunal de PREMIERE INSTANCE de Port-au-Prince, rendit un jugememt en faveur des héritiers SOUFFRANT et condamna la compagnie américaine HASCO a‘ déguerpir des lieux et a’ payer des dommages-intérets .
Grégory MEVS prétendant étre Président de Hasco et Huguette MEVS en tant que Vice-Président de la compagnie , tous deux interjetérent Appel devant la COUR d’Appel de Port-au-Prince contre ce jugement de Premiére instance.
La COUR d’APPEL par son Arrét de 1997 déclarera HASCO propriétaire des terres des SOUFFRANT sur l’habitation ‘’LAMORINIERE’’ de la Plaine du Cul de sac , de la Croix des Bouquets, sous le fallacieux prétexte que HASCO les avait obtenues par prescription de plus de Vingt ans , faisant fi de l’article 2004 du code civil d’HAITI, interdisant a un fermier par quelque laps de temps que ce soit de prescrire contre son bailleur.
La Cour d’Appel osa méme condamner les demandeurs SOUFFRANT a‘ des dommages-intéréts pour abus du droit d’assigner.
La COUR de CASSATION, haut lieu du droit, par son ARRET rendu en 1997, confirma l’Arrét de la Cour d’APPEL de PORT-AU-PRINCE.
La cause des SOUFFRANT ÉTAIT PERDUE et HASCO CONTINUA a jouir impunément des terres
....
http://www.forumhaiti.com/t2407-dossiers-corruption#
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2018-10-16 14:49:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
in plain speak: a tenant [there is no "leaseholder" outside of Common law legal system] can never claim to have acquired "ownership by prescription" on the rented land, according to this "article 2004 du code civil d’HAITI".
Note from asker:
| Thank you, Daryo. |
| Great, that's how I understood it, thanks. And then something along the lines of: "through any period of elapsed time", or "by virtue of any period of elapsed time"? |
Discussion
It is about "[obtaining] ownership by prescription" - you claim some land as your, and if after a number of years no one shows up to contradict you, you can ask a court to grand you ownership on the land.
There was a case in London (one that I know of, probably more exist) of a whole street of empty houses that was squatted some 30 - 40 years ago. With the passing of time, most squatters drifted away - one family stayed more than 12 years and claimed - and obtained - ownership of "their" house.
I saw your question to me after my reference and your idea about "ownership by prescription". I'm not sure. "Peasant farmer" crossed my mind but it's not quite the same. I guess that in Haiti as in many African countries, people got driven out or had land taken away and others "inherited" it. Not really the situation in the UK where land records have been kept for ages.