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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

concatenación con el derecho

English translation:

how it relates to the law

Added to glossary by Lydia De Jorge
May 26, 2020 17:33
3 yrs ago
46 viewers *
Spanish term

concatenación con el derecho

Spanish to English Law/Patents Law (general) supreme court decision on a constitutional interpretation matter in Venezuela
I'm not quite clear on what "concatenación" conveys here. First I was thought of "sequence with the law" which makes no sense to me, so I'm now thinking "sequential (set of?) legal issues". Thoughts on this? Here's the text:

"(...) Luego de una investigación sobre diversos hechos comunicacionales y analizando su concatenación con el derecho, el presente recurso encuentra su génesis en una serie de actos de cuya subordinación al orden constitucional surgen inquietudes razonables y relevantes, emanados de un grupo de diputados de la Asamblea Nacional (...)
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 how it relates to the law
3 +2 legal implications
4 +1 their conformity to the law / the legal basis for their issuance
4 +1 their relationship to the Law
5 concatenation
3 +1 in accordance/conected to/in conformity with the laws
4 abidance by the law
4 the degree to which they conform to (the) law
3 analysing their linkage / how they (such facts) string together / with the law
3 compliance with the law / (legal connections)
3 legal considerations
References
Ref.
Change log

Jun 9, 2020 15:03: Lydia De Jorge Created KOG entry

Discussion

Michael Grabczan-Grabowski May 27, 2020:
@Ramon "Concatenation" is a very rarely used word in common English parlance. If somebody wants to sound pretentious, they could use the word to mean "linkage." I suspect it's also the case with the use of the word concatenación in Spanish.

Literal translations don't work in all cases, as they can sound unnatural and confuse the reader. In my opinion, part of our job is to clarify meanings as much as possible so that the reader can quickly and unambiguously understand what the source text is communicating. By default, I prefer to tone down any pompous language or legalese and get to the heart of the matter, unless the client specifically wants a literal translation.
Ramon Armora May 27, 2020:
I understand your point, and you are right if we are talking about the interpretation of concatenación which means: "Su relación" con el Derecho "Su cumplimiento" con el Derecho, "Su Vinculación" con el Derecho, su conexión al Derecho, su apego al Derecho, but concatenación is just a word and not a legal term, so, concatenation can be used in English if you are looking to translate it literally and it will be completely fine, but if you are looking to interpretet the term and explain it, then I agree completely with you.
TechLawDC May 27, 2020:
"Concatenation" is wrong. Answerer Ramon Armora writes:
"Royal Decree-Law 10/2011, 26th august,
has modified the dichotomy between the restricted legal
concatenation and the illegal concatenation of temporary
employment contracts, which was introduced by the reforms of
2006 and 2010." "concatenation is used by Judge Harris Hartz, I'm guessing he knows more than we do... so, no solipsism here."
Answer: The quote and comment of Mr. Armora both appear to be inapt. "Concatenation" as used in the Armora quote has nothing to do with interpreting the law and everything to do with certain facts which do not relate to the present question -- namely facts of improper linking of temporary employments in sequence.
Michael Grabczan-Grabowski May 27, 2020:
@Seth In that case, since it's not clear whether they're referring to the legal bases nor the legal implications, then how about translating it as legal considerations? It's a bit more general and could potentially encompass both bases and implications (and thus all the legal 'links').

If a text is vague enough to encompass more than one meaning, you, as the translator, also have the option to be equally ambiguous. It would be best if you covered the multiple possible meanings in a way similar to the original.
Seth Phillips (asker) May 27, 2020:
@Michael - excellent question and point The document only mentions hechos comunicacionales twice and doesn't elaborate any further on them. The application for constitutional interpretation was not an appeal per se, it was an attorney who filed and acted on her own initiative (pro se). The application called for the Constitutional Division (of the Venezuelan Supreme Court) to review a few articles of of Venezuelan Constitution in relation to the legitimacy (of lack thereof) of a government official holding position as an attorney general. The considerations section mentioned some fishy acts between that government official and members of the National Assembly, so it's like that the hechos comunicacionales was between them (though no indication who issued those).
David Hollywood May 27, 2020:
but again I will say that as the translator, and the person in charge, you have to decide
David Hollywood May 27, 2020:
·founded in law" is the way I would go
Michael Grabczan-Grabowski May 26, 2020:
@Asker Can you confirm what sort of hechos comunicacionales they are referring to? Are they official notices from an authority or the correspondence between the authority and the appellant?

The phrase concatenación con el derecho ("linkage" with the law) is quite vague because it's not immediately clear whether they're referring to the legal basis (as Robert suggests) or the legal implications or ramifications (as Phil suggests). In my view, it could be argued both ways.

@Asker: Would you be able to clarify which of the above meanings is most likely the most accurate, taking into account the wider context? Are they referring to the legal substantiation of the communications or the legal effects that these communications have caused?

Proposed translations

+2
30 mins
Selected

how it relates to the law

My take
Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : I agree with this, but I beat you to it :-)
3 mins
I didn't realize we were in a race... regardless, we both came in at 30 min. Stay safe.
agree Lester Tattersall : Yes. Except that I'd say "how they relate..."
3 hrs
Thank you, Lester.
agree Luis M. Sosa
21 hrs
Thank you, Luis.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
17 mins

in accordance/conected to/in conformity with the laws

Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : This might make sense (I don't know) if it said "en concatenación con".
14 mins
agree Ian Masica
1 hr
Gracias Ian!
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+2
30 mins

legal implications

As Ramon says, concatenation means linkage. It seems a rather odd word to use here, but I'm not a native speaker, so I can't judge.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Taña Dalglish : You've already said "concatenation" means linkage; linkage with legal implications??? Your being a non-native Spanish speaker is not relevant here, as you have an idea what it means in English.//Phil, I am saying you understand perfectly what it means!
31 mins
Sorry, I don't understand your comments.
agree Lester Tattersall
3 hrs
agree Michael Grabczan-Grabowski : Methinks this could work too. It's also a "linkage to the law" as much as "legal basis" is, although to be fair, I always see resoluciones de recursos referring to legal bases for all the arguments made rather than the latter's legal effects.
4 hrs
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+1
1 hr
Spanish term (edited): su concatenación con el derecho

their conformity to the law / the legal basis for their issuance

Every act by a government authority usually has to tie in with a specific statute allowing or obliging it to perform the act. My understanding of the sentence is therefore that the party making the appeal looked into the various communications (hechos comunicacionales) by the authority, and whether they were compliant with the law, i.e., their "legality" or "legitimacy".

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Note added at 2 hrs (2020-05-26 19:42:43 GMT)
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What I'm trying to point out above all is that the construction "analizar su concatenación con el derecho" means "to see whether or not they are legal or have a legal grounding". The "whether or not" part is implicit here, but it's crucial to our understanding of what "concatenación" means; it's describing a process.
Peer comment(s):
agree Michael Grabczan-Grabowski : If it were me, I'd also tend more toward "legal basis" than anything else. The original Spanish is somewhat vague and talking in general terms, so I don't see why "legal basis" couldn't logically work. I also think Phil's option can work too, though.
1 hr
Thanks for asking, Michael. I'm inferring it from the asker's previous question, but more context would surely help, although the asker may be reluctant to provide it.
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2 hrs
Spanish term (edited): (analizando su) concatenación con el derecho

analysing their linkage / how they (such facts) string together / with the law

I an unsure these 'points of disclosure' or 'communicable facts' dovetail with the law, rather are subsumed thereunder and are classified according to such rules.

String together might be a way of reflecting the 'concatenation'-
Example sentence:

In formal language theory and computer programming, string concatenation is the operation of joining character strings end-to-end

To string together six theorems of physics by Pythagoras theorem.

Reference:

http://eng.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/bus-financial/95130-concatenación-de-contrataciones.html

Note from asker:
Thanks Adrian, your answer makes a lot of sense for my text ;)
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8 hrs

abidance by the law

my take
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11 hrs

the degree to which they conform to (the) law

I would say

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2020-05-27 04:56:06 GMT)
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or "with" as you wish

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2020-05-27 04:57:29 GMT)
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anyway you have so much to choose from so again it's your call

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2020-05-27 05:07:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

to what extent they are founded in law
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+1
11 hrs

their relationship to the Law

(It should be understood that here "the Law" means statutes, regulations, guidelines, administrative decrees, administrative law decisions, case law, and (redundant here) Supreme Court case law.)
---
I have read the other answers and feel that they are grammatically inapposite ("how it relates to the law"), unidiomatic ("conformity"; "legal basis"; "legal implications"), or far outside the author's intent ("compliance"; "linkage"; "concatenations"; etc.).
Peer comment(s):
agree Marcelo González
4 days
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3 hrs

compliance with the law / (legal connections)

I found 'concatenación' to mean 'concatenation' or 'linking together' in my dictionary, so I chose 'connection' as a first definition. With the law study example I chose 'compliance' as a second definition and hope that it fits in with the example sentence.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2020-05-27 07:28:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Another answer suggested for a translation of 'concatenación con el derecho' is 'founded on law'. This might cover and replace all of 'analizando su concatenación con el derecho' (on analyzing their compliance with the law (legal connections)) in the example sentence above.
Example sentence:

Luego de una investigación sobre diversos hechos comunicacionales y analizando su concatenación con el derecho,el presente recurso encuentra su génesis.

Following an investigation on various communicative deeds and on analyzing their compliance with the law (or legal connections) the present means (or methods) find their origin...

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15 mins

concatenation

Ambas palabras tienen el mismo significado, yo lo mantendría literal,

Concatenar: Unir o enlazar dos o más cosas.
Concatenate: to link together in a series or chain

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Note added at 28 mins (2020-05-26 18:01:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

concatenation with the law?

Lo que entiendo es que busca decir es que se analiza el enlace/conexión con la ley,

Entiendo que otros traductores lo cambiarían, pero a mi me gustan las cosas literales siempre que se pueda, no soy poeta, soy traductor.

Cualquier pregunta estoy a la orden.

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Note added at 32 mins (2020-05-26 18:05:12 GMT)
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1. Enlazar o vincular hechos o ideas que guardan entre sí una relación lógica o de causa y efecto.
2. Unir diferentes cosas o acontecimientos en un mismo tiempo. el gobierno intenta concatenar sus esfuerzos para lograr una mejora de la economía del país.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2020-05-27 13:19:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://www.iustel.com/v2/revistas/detalle_revista.asp?id_no...


Mi seguridad es por la traducción literal, ambas palabras significan lo mismo, cuando escuchados un término poco tendemos a descartarlo.

Estoy de acuerdo en que no es necesariamente lo mejor, pero tu conoces el documento completo mejor que todos nosotros.

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Note added at 19 hrs (2020-05-27 13:20:26 GMT)
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https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-10th-circuit/1426821.html

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Note added at 19 hrs (2020-05-27 13:22:15 GMT)
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Este último link es de la Corte de Apelaciones de los EEUU, ahí utilizan concatenation literalmente por su significado, enlace, unión, etc.
Reference:

https://dle.rae.es/concatenar

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concatenate

Note from asker:
"con el derecho"?
Pues la traducción literal no funciona, es esencial transmitir el sentido del origen.
Peer comment(s):
neutral TechLawDC : "Concatenation with the law" and "concatenation of the facts" are terms I have never seen in the many thousands of legal cases I have read in English. Seems like a solipsism. Do you have examples that would justify your "5" rating?
11 hrs
Check the last link, concatenation is used by Judge Harris Hartz, I'm guessing he knows more than we do... so, no solipsism here. (link in the notes)
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22 hrs

legal considerations

This would be my suggestion, as per the discussion.
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Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

Ref.

Doxa. Cuadernos de Filosofía del Derecho. N. 42 (2019) - RUArua.ua.es › dspace › bitstream › DOXA_42PDF
necessary*** connection between the Law, on the one hand,** and a given ... una **concatenación** de hechos que, en última instancia, se fundamentan en el poder18.

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Note added at 1 hr (2020-05-26 18:54:56 GMT)
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https://rua.ua.es/dspace/bitstream/10045/99656/1/DOXA_42.pdf

https://www.lexico.com/definition/concatenation
a series of interconnected things.

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Note added at 1 day 0 min (2020-05-27 17:33:33 GMT)
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Seth:
I looked up the definition of "hecho comunicacional" (hecho notorio judicial).

Consideraciones sobre el “hecho comunicacional” como ...allanbrewercarias.net › Content › II, ...
PDF
lo 6 de la Ley Orgánica de Amparo sobre Derechos y Garantías Constitu- cionales ... tituía un “hecho comunicacional” (“hecho notorio judicial”) que no re-.

hecho notorio judicial (aquel que le consta al juez o tribunal de la causa, no por virtud de su ciencia general, sino por haber resuelto otros asuntos similares anteriormente) y su posible invocación en el ámbito del derecho fundamental a la igualdad en la aplicación de la ley, http://hj.tribunalconstitucional.es/en/Resolucion/Show/25520
---legal fact (that which is known to the judge or court of the case, not by virtue of its general science, but because it has resolved other similar cases previously) and its possible invocation in the field of the fundamental right to equality in the application of the law-


Your text:
Luego de una investigación sobre diversos hechos comunicacionales y analizando su concatenación con el derecho, el presente recurso encuentra su génesis en una serie de actos de cuya subordinación al orden constitucional surgen inquietudes razonables y relevantes, emanados de un grupo de diputados de la Asamblea Nacional (..

Following a review of various verbal statements and analyzing (the legal facts) and their interconnection within the ambit of the law ... finds its genesis in a series of acts whose .... to the consitutional order which gives rise to reasonable and relevant concerns emanating from a group of deputies of the National assembly (...).
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree AllegroTrans
1 day 2 hrs
Thank you.
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