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English translation: goods appropriate to (the couple's) comfort and lifestyle
16:40 Jun 15, 2022
French to English translations [PRO] Law/Patents - Law (general)
French term or phrase:biens agréables pour le confort de l’existence
Marriage contract.
"Contribution aux charges du mariage
Les futurs époux conviennent que toutes leurs dépenses autres que d’investissement constitueront des charges du mariage et que celles-ci seront supportées par eux à proportion de leurs facultés respectives. Il faut entendre par dépenses du mariage, celles qui sont relatives à la satisfaction des besoins ordinaires de l’existence et au train de vie du ménage tels que les frais afférents au le logement, la nourriture, les loisirs, les vêtements, les soins du corps et de l’esprit, les déplacements et voyages, les biens de consommation ou périssables nécessaires, utiles, ou même simplement agréables pour le confort de l’existence."
On the face of it, a rather shockingly informal term to find in a notarially recorded instrument. My stab at this is "goods which are amenable for life's comforts".
Yes, I got it wrong, agréables does go with biens (de consommation ...), but no, it's not the case that "les biens de consommation sont agréables" - more accurately you have to look at "agréables pour" together, which gives it a different twist.
Totally agree. Just an ordinary phrase that lawyers have latched on to. "Shockingly informal" to quote Mpoma so how shocking/how formal should we be when translating? I think Mpoma will just have to go with his gut instinct on this one. Maybe he can skilfully combine shockingness (yes it is a word) with formality.
It strikes me as ordinary language used in a legal way. In other words, you won't find definitions of these terms in Bridge. So I would suggest a plain English translation and let the lawyers fight about the rest.
Well, some people don't need heat, just ego, unwarranted pride and inexperience, to go terribly off the rails, ignoring, in the process, some of the very best translators who post here.
... to the méninges of m'learned friends sweating away in the 8th and 9th arrondissements. But in fact I should have said that I had found that phrase confort de l'existence had a few ghits. It's a legal "thing", indeed.
that the phrase is not a one-off oddity foisted on Mpoma during a mind-disturbing heatwave as some sort of a prank. See:
Modèle contrat de mariage - the.Ismaili https://the.ismaili › modele_contrat_de_mariage PDF simplement agréables pour le confort de l'existence. N'entrent pas dans les dépenses du mariage celles qui seraient susceptibles.
"Les conflits successoraux" - Mouvement Jeune Notariat http://www.mjn.fr › 2018/09 › MJN_2018-v2 PDF 3 Sept 2018 — utiles, ou même simplement agréables pour le confort de l'existence. N'entrent pas dans les dépenses du mariage celles qui seraient ... 434 pages
If they are specific to a household with a certain level of income, I would think so. Besides, the translation I have offered is "commodities that allow a household to live in comfort/make life comfortable". So yes, that could include things like trips. See: https://apps.bea.gov/scb/account_articles/national/0798ied/t... Italy—Ciao, ciao! (gotta go, at least for now)
Anecdote: my sister has taught English for 20 years, I have been in translation/subtitling for 20 years, and we both swore we would never, respectively, translate and teach. And that's how it's been.
Do you get a coalman/coal delivery person to light your fire or sweep your chimney? No, you don't.
Is travel ("déplacements et voyages"), a "household commodity" or even a commodity? Are leisure activities (loisirs) a "household commodity" or even a commodity?
The case is really rested now, because it's now also had time for a two-week spa, health and wellbeing break in Italy as well.
Well, I at least agree that there would be nothing wrong with using "items" in this instance, in the case of furniture, etc. "Things" and "this and that", however, would not be the least bit appropriate!
I don't think it lies, either, when it states on some of its pages that a commodity can refer to ANYTHING of use and value, the latter being something the asker's source text mentions, right before the phrase in question. In a household, commodities that satisfy the "besoins ordinaires de l'existence", would be things like furniture, lamps, refrigerators, etc.
... have a look at the sentence again. The subclause starting "les biens de consommation ou périssables" then has 3 adjectives (the last being an adjectival clause) ... "necessary, useful, or even ... X".
If you wanted to make a case for there being ambiguity about which noun was involved in the "X" adjectival clause above (dépenses or biens), there would absolutely *have* to be an "ou" between nécessaires and utiles rather than a comma. The presence of the comma removes the ambiguity by syntactically locking those 3 adjectives together and attaching them rigidly to the noun biens. There's no doubt on this point, as far as I'm concerned.
But, à titre infiniment subsidiaire (as they say), the suggestion that expenditure can be felt to be agréable is also, as Phil rightly says, semantically incongruous, if not actually absurd. This incongruity is accentuated by the strange confort... expression.
I have the advantage in that I was actually tasked with translating this and have therefore spent more time taxing my brain over the possibilities. I'm sure every contributor would have teased this out in my place.
Hello I came to the same conclusion as you but based merely on "proximity". I was not able to rule out Daryo's parsing so I'd like to understand why you are so sure about this Thanks
if you look at the whole sentence, at the way this enumeration is structured,
it starts with dépenses du mariage,
and the last item is "simplement agréables pour le confort de l’existence".
so "simplement agreables" qualifies "dépenses" i.e. any spending, not necessarily only goods. It could also be any kind of "services", like treating yourself to a holiday.
If you restrict these "dépenses" only to "goods", that's not exactly what's in the ST.
I put "goods which enhance an agreeable lifestyle", but I think anyone visiting here for this expression might prefer several of the other solutions, equally valid.
Possibly confort is not a perfect fit for English "comfort": paraphrase probably preferable.
(dépenses du mariage) ... ou même simplement agréables pour le confort de l’existence." = ou même simplement (des dépenses ) pour se faire plaisir.
IOW "I don't have to justify whether this particular spending was really necessary or not, I bought it just because I liked it - end of story - it's goind to be counted as 'dépenses du mariage'."
that are pleasant and provide a comfortable existence
Explanation: "Jane Austen and ***Marriage*** https://books.google.fr › books· Traduire cette page Hazel Jones · 2009 · Literary Criticism ... by marriage articles, nowhere near enough to provide ***a comfortable existence*** or the financial incentives necessary for the girls to marry well."
Keeping it fairly literal would probably be a good idea.
Conor McAuley France Local time: 04:05 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 210
