| Páginas no tópico: < [1 2 3 4] > | Joke Poster: $0.03 per word for urgent job Tópico cartaz: ksbtranslation
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| The old racket | Feb 25, 2008 |
The sequence of events:
1. MightyCorp, from X-land, will be exporting their wares to Y-land. So, as part of a larger package, they ask their PR or advertising agency to get their product literature translated into Y-ese. They agree to pay 25¢ on the word.
2. The PR/ad agency now and then uses the services of a translator into a language more popular and widespread than Y-ese. No, s/he doesn't know anyone who works with that language, but often works for a large transl... See more The sequence of events:
1. MightyCorp, from X-land, will be exporting their wares to Y-land. So, as part of a larger package, they ask their PR or advertising agency to get their product literature translated into Y-ese. They agree to pay 25¢ on the word.
2. The PR/ad agency now and then uses the services of a translator into a language more popular and widespread than Y-ese. No, s/he doesn't know anyone who works with that language, but often works for a large translation agency, "A" that hires freelancing professionals worldwide in countless language pairs.
3. The "A" translation agency takes the job at 20¢/word. Their PM checks, and discovers they don't know one single translator for Y-ese. Upon further search, this PM finds the "B" translation agency offering service into Y-ese on their web site. So they reoutsource it to them.
4. The "B" agency takes the job for 15¢/word. This outsourcer has 52 entries on the Proz Blue Board, giving it a WWA = 1.7, thanks to a few friends who agreed to join Proz as users, and give them WWA = 5 scores, in spite of never having translated anything in their lives. Otherwise, their composite WWA wouldn't budge from 1. Bottom line is that their reputation is sooo bad that no translator will work for them.
5. So the only way for "B" agency to hire a translator will be by outsourcing the job to the "C" translation agency. Having been established just a couple of weeks ago, it hasn't had a chance yet to develop any kind of reputation at all.
6. The "C" agency takes the job for 10¢/word, and tries to find an X-ese translator in Y-land for 5¢/word. No success. The cheapest one they found charges the same 10¢/word they'll be getting.
7. In desperation, the "C" agency blindly outsources the job to an agency on the opposite corner of the globe, that boldly advertises "height qualiti trenslatian" (sic!) from/to any language for 5¢/word.
8. This last agency, that shall remain nameless and letter-less, posts the job offer under discussion here.
[Edited at 2008-02-25 12:55] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Not mutually exclusive options | Feb 25, 2008 |
Tim Drayton wrote:
Do we really need a discussion here every time someody posts a job at a low rate? If you don't like the rate, don't apply. This is a free market.
It is perfectly possible to not apply AND to pass comment on the forums.
Low rates are perceived as an issue by the translator community.
Why shouldn't it be discussed?
Of course, if the forum posts were organised properly, i.e. by date of last posting, not date started, perhaps there would only be one thread about it, which would be better, for sure.
Lend your support here: http://www.proz.com/topic/97984
[Edited at 2008-02-25 12:12]
| | | | ksbtranslation 
Indonésia
Local time: 11:23
indonésio para inglês
+ ...
CRIADOR(A) DO TÓPICO | Who is to be blamed? | Feb 25, 2008 |
This is the world we live in. No matter we like it or not. So who is to be blamed? Free market system?
| | | | | Who's to blame? | Feb 25, 2008 |
ksbtranslation wrote:
This is the world we live in. No matter we like it or not. So who is to be blamed? Free market system?
You could blame the free market forces, but I would blame anyone even considering accepting such rates. But I don't really care what people do, because IMHO if people offer such rates, they get what they pay for (they just don't understand it), and if people accept such rates, they either translate for the fun of it, have masochistic tendencies, live in a country with low living costs or are really, really desperate (probably because they can't compete on quality due to sub-standard qualifications). If so, I just feel sorry for them.
Jørgen
[Edited at 2008-02-25 14:53]
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Ade Indarta
Indonésia
Local time: 11:23
Membro (2007)
inglês para indonésio
| This is what this site's all about | Feb 25, 2008 |
Hey
I thought that this is what this site's all about:
To help the buyer get the lowest price possible on earth
| | | | Ralf Lemster
Alemanha
Local time: 06:23
inglês para alemão
+ ...
Hi Ade,
I thought that this is what this site's all about:
To help the buyer get the lowest price possible on earth
That may be a perception, based on the misconception that posted jobs represent the market. They don't.
Best regards,
Ralf
| | | | | Two sides of a coin | Feb 25, 2008 |
Ralf Lemster wrote: Hi Ade,
I thought that this is what this site's all about:
To help the buyer get the lowest price possible on earth
That may be a perception, based on the misconception that posted jobs represent the market. They don't.
Posted jobs definitely don't represent the buying market. However translators' profiles should represent a significant sample of the selling market.
Assuming that the average rate (from translators' profiles) for the language pair involved were 0.10/word, it would be nice if Proz included some indicator, possibly graphical, on the job page saying that This rate is 30% of the average of the rates informed as practiced by [e.g. here] 6,502 translators for this pair on Proz.
| | | | pascie
Local time: 00:23
inglês para francês
+ ...
| I don't agree with you, Samuel | Feb 25, 2008 |
Samuel Murray wrote: ksbtranslation wrote:
Even an amateur will decline this job. An amateur has to decline it, because it is paid work, otherwise he would be a professional.
A shortsighted person cannot be a professional. Sorry.
An amateur has any reasons to get paid. This does not make any sense at all.
This issue goes beyond that as these 'cheap' working people are in violation of Unfair Competition Law.
Plus, they are not in compliance with Rule#1 of the Translator Ethics Standards consisting in 'Practice fair competition'. Therefore, this a serious issue.
[Edited at 2008-02-25 16:28]
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Nicole Schnell
Estados Unidos
Local time: 21:23
inglês para alemão
+ ...
In memoriam
Ralf Lemster wrote:
That may be a perception, based on the misconception that posted jobs represent the market. They don't.
One of the most basic things I ever learned in more than 20 years of marketing:
The best jobs are never advertised.
And that is it.
| | | | | Depends on the country | Feb 25, 2008 |
My international clients represent 90% of my customers and only 10% are Peruvian customers. In a country like Peru, where the standard rate is US$0.01 (or less!) per word, then US$0.03 doesn't look bad at all. I normally have to fight with the 10% of Peruvian companies with whom I work in order to obtain that US$0.03-per-word rate. I can imagine the situation is very similar in other underdeveloped countries. And that's the kind of translators they want to have.
| | | | Gianni Pastore
Itália
Local time: 06:23
Membro (2007)
inglês para italiano
Tim Drayton wrote:
Do we really need a discussion here every time someody posts a job at a low rate?
| | | | | Hasn't it been suggested before? | Feb 25, 2008 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Assuming that the average rate (from translators' profiles) for the language pair involved were 0.10/word, it would be nice if Proz included some indicator, possibly graphical, on the job page saying that This rate is 30% of the average of the rates informed as practiced by [e.g. here] 6,502 translators for this pair on Proz.
If it was, where's any follow-up? If it wasn't, why?
I feel fed up both with ridiculous rates offered from time to time and with rants about them.
IMO, the suggestion is very sound and hopefully would be an eye-opener both to the job posters and to the bidders.
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| Off-topic to Pascie | Feb 25, 2008 |
pascie wrote: Samuel Murray wrote: ksbtranslation wrote:
Even an amateur will decline this job. An amateur has to decline it, because it is paid work, otherwise he would be a professional. A shortsighted person cannot be a professional. Sorry. An amateur has any reasons to get paid. This does not make any sense at all. This issue goes beyond that as these 'cheap' working people are in violation of Unfair Competition Law. Plus, they are not in compliance with Rule#1 of the Translator Ethics Standards consisting in 'Practice fair competition'. Therefore, this a serious issue.
Samuel was (I assume jokingly) referring to the formal definitions of "amateur" and "professional" - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur. He is absolutely right, but I don't think he meant to be taken seriously.
[Edited at 2008-02-25 17:43]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Holanda
Local time: 06:23
Membro (2006)
inglês para africâner
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| Unfair competition | Feb 25, 2008 |
pascie wrote:
This issue goes beyond that as these 'cheap' working people are in violation of Unfair Competition Law.
I would love to hear *how* their actions violate principles of unfair competition (regardless of which country's laws are meant).
Plus, they are not in compliance with Rule#1 of the Translator Ethics Standards consisting in 'Practice fair competition'.
I could find no reference to the standards you are referring to. Do you have a URL for me?
| | | | pascie
Local time: 00:23
inglês para francês
+ ...
| I don't agree | Feb 25, 2008 |
Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote: pascie wrote: Samuel Murray wrote: ksbtranslation wrote:
Even an amateur will decline this job. An amateur has to decline it, because it is paid work, otherwise he would be a professional. A shortsighted person cannot be a professional. Sorry. An amateur has any reasons to get paid. This does not make any sense at all. This issue goes beyond that as these 'cheap' working people are in violation of Unfair Competition Law. Plus, they are not in compliance with Rule#1 of the Translator Ethics Standards consisting in 'Practice fair competition'. Therefore, this a serious issue. Samuel was (I assume jokingly) referring to the formal definitions of "amateur" and "professional" - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur. He is absolutely right, but I don't think he meant to be taken seriously. [Edited at 2008-02-25 17:43]
I am surprised that as a professional translator you would refer to wikipedia.
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