Running an agency, translating from/into multiple languages מפרסם התגובה: Baran Keki
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Baran Keki 
טורקיה
Local time: 23:31
חבר
מאנגלית לטורקית
While browsing the Blue Board, I sometimes see 'single individuals' acting as translation agencies, who seem to be doing everything by themselves (finding clients, translators, acting as a PM, accountant etc.).
How does a French guy in London (or with a London business address) find materials to be translated from English to Turkish, Lithuanian or Italian, and offer fair rates (way above those of multinationals or the 'London agencies' operating out of Chișinău)? I'm not talking about t... See more While browsing the Blue Board, I sometimes see 'single individuals' acting as translation agencies, who seem to be doing everything by themselves (finding clients, translators, acting as a PM, accountant etc.).
How does a French guy in London (or with a London business address) find materials to be translated from English to Turkish, Lithuanian or Italian, and offer fair rates (way above those of multinationals or the 'London agencies' operating out of Chișinău)? I'm not talking about translators working in specific language pairs and outsourcing some of their work to the translators they find through the Proz directory, but the individuals (translator or otherwise) acting as a business entity, apparently accommodating every conceivable language.
Is having a website or posting rubbish on LinkedIn enough? It seems that there is no way you can get listed on the first 5 pages of Google when you search for "English to (whatever language) translation" these days as all the prime real estate there have already already been taken up by certain 'translation Groups', and some of those individuals' websites do seem to date from the early 00s (so no SEO to speak of), and yet their BB pages are full of comments recently left by translators of various languages. How do they find clients, or more to the point, how do they get found by clients?
Is anyone here working or know someone working like this? How does this work?
[Edited at 2023-12-24 13:45 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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My path is exactly the opposite. When my partners (Belgian and Portuguese) and I set up BPT in 1984, our idea was that of a traditional translation agency. We never intended to translate into “every conceivable language”, but we did intend to translate into all European languages. We soon realised that this was unfeasible, as we couldn't find the qualified translators we needed in Belgium (before email became widespread and Proz-type platforms existed). So, little by little, we focused on ju... See more My path is exactly the opposite. When my partners (Belgian and Portuguese) and I set up BPT in 1984, our idea was that of a traditional translation agency. We never intended to translate into “every conceivable language”, but we did intend to translate into all European languages. We soon realised that this was unfeasible, as we couldn't find the qualified translators we needed in Belgium (before email became widespread and Proz-type platforms existed). So, little by little, we focused on just a handful of European languages. At first, we did some publicity via chambers of commerce, embassies, multinationals, OTAN and EU institutions. In the meantime, we were very lucky because Portugal joined the EU in 1986 and there was a need for translations into Portuguese and the existing agencies didn't offer our language. The following year, both myself and another partner were hired as staff translators to work at the European Institutions. In 2006, when I retired, I was left alone with BPT because the other partners weren't interested in continuing. At that point, I decided to concentrate solely on translating into Portuguese (the only one I can consciously revise). In 2015, I returned to my country of origin and here I am working in my "agency" as an independent... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Baran Keki
טורקיה
Local time: 23:31
חבר
מאנגלית לטורקית
TOPIC STARTER | Boutique agencies | Dec 25, 2023 |
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida wrote:
My path is exactly the opposite. When my partners (Belgian and Portuguese) and I set up BPT in 1984, our idea was that of a traditional translation agency.
You seem to be describing what might be called a 'boutique agency', where, I suppose, your partners handled different aspects of the business (like project management, dealing with clients, accounting etc.) as well as translating into major European languages (which couldn't be more than 5 or 6)?
These 'single individuals' that I mentioned appear to be doing everything by themselves (probably from a home office, though some of them seem to have downtown London addresses). They may or may not be translators themselves, but I reckon 90% of them are indeed translators (or else why would you be in this business?) Two examples:
A British agency owner, whose TranslatorsCafe profile says she's a FR/IT/SP > EN legal translator, contacted me last month for a 40K word Turkish legal translation job and had no issues with my per word rate, which was more than twice your average London agency.
I saw a job ad posted on Proz two days ago by a German woman (again a translator, and apparently an agency owner, who incidentally posted a job ad here 5 or 6 years ago, and I somehow managed to land that one by beating others  but instead of coming to me, she chose to use the job board... oh well, I was busy anyways) for a 9k psychotherapy questionnaire (of all things!) translation into Turkish.
I'm sure they're getting similar jobs in Romanian, Serbian, Latvian etc. every now and again, and that's what I'm curious about. Like I says a boutique agency mostly deals with Romance and Germanic languages, not with Turkish or other less-in-demand/exotic languages.
Multinationals and London agencies have their dedicated "sales teams" that go out and actively seek clients, as well as luring them online by splashing the cash on SEO to occupy the top pages on Google for any searches on "language A to language B translation".
I mean "word of mouth" or "occasional inquiries from regular direct clients in other languages" can get you only so far. How do these individuals run their businesses (getting found by clients) all on their own and in languages they haven't the slightest knowledge of? I've tried all sorts of translation related keywords on Google to find that British woman's website, and I couldn't. All I could find were the names of the usual translation "Groups" and London agencies.
I'd very much like to hear from people who, in addition to translating from certain languages, offer services in other (any) languages. Of course, I'm not expecting them to reveal their trade secrets, but just some general idea would be appreciated.
[Edited at 2023-12-25 18:52 GMT]
| | | | | Buddy industry | Dec 27, 2023 |
Translation also is a kind of family or buddy industry where you as a freelancer or PM may outsource jobs to your relatives, friends, colleagues and classmates from University (for the latter you may also exclude them by slander when you cultivate multiple connections on a personal level). Networking seems to be trumps and once you have a highly efficient network you as a freelancer may also pretend to act as an agency. That's also the reason why agencies from India and Chişinău (aka "London")... See more Translation also is a kind of family or buddy industry where you as a freelancer or PM may outsource jobs to your relatives, friends, colleagues and classmates from University (for the latter you may also exclude them by slander when you cultivate multiple connections on a personal level). Networking seems to be trumps and once you have a highly efficient network you as a freelancer may also pretend to act as an agency. That's also the reason why agencies from India and Chişinău (aka "London") can offer jobs in European languages and from companies outside India nobody would expect, because of outsourcing on different tiers down to bottom feeding. Even you, Baran, could offer jobs from Dutch into German and then outsource them to any blxxxdy German you know personally and who accepts your price. So please go ahead and give it a try.
[Bearbeitet am 2023-12-27 14:00 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Tom in London
הממלכה המאוחדת
Local time: 20:31
חבר (2008)
מאיטלקית לאנגלית
| Possible tax advantages | Dec 27, 2023 |
It may be that some translators operate as an agency (i.e. a company). There may be tax advantages in doing so. There is nothing illegal about it. In fact I have considered it myself.
[Edited at 2023-12-27 15:47 GMT]
| | | | | Chancers, ducking and diving | Dec 27, 2023 |
Tom in London wrote:
It may be that some translators operate as an agency (i.e. a company). There may be tax advantages in doing so. There is nothing illegal about it. In fact I have considered it myself.
Tax avoidance may be legal but it is still wrong.
On topic: Way back in the mists of time we worked with a guy locally who was just really good at sales and marketing and saw a gap in the market. He had no language skills at all. He just talked people into trusting him. He found us quite randomly by asking at the local university. I imagine some work he sent out would have been rubbish though.
So maybe that’s your answer, Baran. My customers sometimes ask if I know someone translating into some other language and I just say no, but I could always say yes.
| | | | Tom in London
הממלכה המאוחדת
Local time: 20:31
חבר (2008)
מאיטלקית לאנגלית
Christopher Schröder wrote:
Tax avoidance may be legal but it is still wrong.
Setting up a company, and paying yourself a salary from that company, is legal. It is not tax avoidance because the company, and the employee, both pay taxes. There are other reasons why a lone translator might want to set up a company.
If you think that's wrong, you'll need to tell the thousands of companies that employ people and pay them a salary!
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Tom in London wrote:
Christopher Schröder wrote:
Tax avoidance may be legal but it is still wrong.
Setting up a company, and paying yourself a salary from that company, is legal. It is not tax avoidance because the company, and the employee, both pay taxes. There are other reasons why a lone translator might want to set up a company.
If you think that's wrong, you'll need to tell the thousands of companies that employ people and pay them a salary!
Changing to trading as a company to pay less tax, which is what you talked about originally, is a form of tax engineering/avoidance, and is wrong in my opinion because I firmly believe in people paying their fair share of tax to support public services and the welfare state. It may be a lefty view but it’s hard to argue against it.
There are unlikely to be any other real benefits of making that change. Bear in mind I recently switched the other way so I have some experience here.
Given your refusal to register for VAT due to the paperwork involved, I would not recommend that you incorporate for that reason either.
The tax advantages are minimal these days anyway unless you are well into the higher rate and have a non-working spouse to split the income with.
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Baran Keki
טורקיה
Local time: 23:31
חבר
מאנגלית לטורקית
TOPIC STARTER | Bottom feeding economy | Dec 28, 2023 |
Matthias Brombach wrote:
That's also the reason why agencies from India and Chişinău (aka "London") can offer jobs in European languages and from companies outside India nobody would expect, because of outsourcing on different tiers down to bottom feeding. Even you, Baran, could offer jobs from Dutch into German and then outsource them to any blxxxdy German you know personally and who accepts your price. So please go ahead and give it a try.
[Bearbeitet am 2023-12-27 14:00 GMT]
I'm all too familiar with getting yourself registered with wealthy European agencies as an English to Swedish, Dutch, Spanish, French, German etc. translator with stolen/fake CVs and then outsourcing those 7-8 cent per word paying agency jobs on Upwork for 2 or 3 cents per word. Hell, I got offered to proofread my own translation by a 'Middle Eastern translation agency' half an hour after I'd delivered the translation for an astounding 3 cents per word.
I also know of 'agencies' with dedicated PMs and accounting departments that do the same. One of them would ask me to use their 'end client's' MemoQ server (they're brazen like that).
I'm not interested in those types of individuals (or groups of individuals). The kind of people I'm describing here get a sizeable volume of translation work in a language that you don't normally expect from a boutique agency (like Georgian, Azeri, Bosnian, Turkish etc.) and are willing to pay you 10 cents per word or more. They do everything by themselves, so you deal with the same person throughout the process, instead of looking for different people and email addresses when it comes to chasing the payment.
Some of them tend to contact you more often for the same pair (and for the same end client), and their BB record suggests that they're doing the same with other (not so popular) language pairs, and yet their websites often leaves a lot to be desired. Though, I personally believe that websites don't do much in terms of drumming up trade. I've had a website for years, and paid good money on SEO, and in the end all I got was a handful of unsolicited translator applications.
As I said, big translation agencies have their own sales teams that actually meet and greet the clients instead of relying on websites and SEO. They (those single individuals) must be doing something to get those end clients that pay 22 to 25 cents per word. Maybe they're attending 'fairs', I don't know.
| | | | Baran Keki
טורקיה
Local time: 23:31
חבר
מאנגלית לטורקית
TOPIC STARTER | You'll get no argument from me | Dec 28, 2023 |
Christopher Schröder wrote:
Tax avoidance may be legal but it is still wrong.
Changing to trading as a company to pay less tax, which is what you talked about originally, is a form of tax engineering/avoidance, and is wrong in my opinion because I firmly believe in people paying their fair share of tax to support public services and the welfare state. It may be a lefty view but it’s hard to argue against it.
I remember reading on a Turkish translator's Proz profile something like "I'm a tax registered translator. I pay my taxes, whereas other Turkish translators don't pay their taxes, they work illegally". I thought it was brilliant. Why work on your marketing skills when you can put the taxman on others' arses and eliminate the competition that way? After all, anyone who's watched a dozen or so Netflix series and has a computer can do translation. There might be rapists, murderers, arsonists out there who're trying to pass themselves off as translators. Why risk it, goddammit?
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I believe the outsourcing colleagues you had in mind are the small exception who look for assistance in rather rare language combinations because they had managed to catch some big fish by pure diligent networking, yes, perhaps on fairs and by distinguishing wheat from chaff when choosing partner freelancers from the proz register. Sometimes they are in need to post jobs, too. One day I coincidentally was contacted by a direct client, who not only asked for my combinations but also if I could m... See more I believe the outsourcing colleagues you had in mind are the small exception who look for assistance in rather rare language combinations because they had managed to catch some big fish by pure diligent networking, yes, perhaps on fairs and by distinguishing wheat from chaff when choosing partner freelancers from the proz register. Sometimes they are in need to post jobs, too. One day I coincidentally was contacted by a direct client, who not only asked for my combinations but also if I could manage the others he needed. I couldn't, but I delivered my part and then the client disappeared, because he found another freelancer who could manage all his combinations, or he returned to an agency again. ▲ Collapse
| | | | IrinaN
ארצות הברית
Local time: 14:31
מאנגלית לרוסית
+ ...
| @Christopher | Dec 29, 2023 |
I can't say anything about the UK laws but running a single-member LLC treated as S Corp for tax purposes is the best thing in the US freelancer's world. Perfectly legal but makes sense only if you make at least 70-80K. Should some day you'll get really curious and have absolutely nothing better to do , you can study the information on the net, there is plenty.
I didn't do a lot of outsourcing but with my connections ... See more I can't say anything about the UK laws but running a single-member LLC treated as S Corp for tax purposes is the best thing in the US freelancer's world. Perfectly legal but makes sense only if you make at least 70-80K. Should some day you'll get really curious and have absolutely nothing better to do, you can study the information on the net, there is plenty.
I didn't do a lot of outsourcing but with my connections in the translation/interpretation industry I could find fully reliable turnkey vendors in at least 5-6 pairs. ▲ Collapse
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| Unputdownable | Dec 29, 2023 |
IrinaN wrote:
Perfectly legal but makes sense only if you make at least 70-80K. Should some day you'll get really curious and have absolutely nothing better to do , you can study the information on the net, there is plenty.
Can’t wait!😂😂
Legal, yes, but any tax breaks for the rich are fundamentally wrong imho.
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