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什么是母语？ Thread poster: Phil Hand
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ysun 
United States
Local time: 03:59
English to Chinese
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| "failure to communicate" | Jul 16, 2012 |
Phil Hand wrote:
What we have here is failure to communicate
ysun:
These are relevant and interesting questions. We spent a long time discussing them in the big thread. I would discuss them here with you now, except for the fact that you chose to poison this debate by accusing me of racism. As it is, I have no desire to engage with you, except to say, buzz off.
Phil,
I've never accused you of racism. However, I agree with what you said here: “what we have here is failure to communicate”. Obviously, you failed to understand what the peers wrote in plain Chinese on a number of occasions.
It is also obvious that you were unable to answer my questions even when I wrote in English:
http://www.proz.com/post/1981888#1981888
[Edited at 2012-07-16 15:25 GMT]
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Linda Yang
Local time: 16:59
English to Chinese
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Phil Hand wrote:
中国早晚要接轨，为了接轨她需要一个专业能力强的翻译队伍......我是希望参与这场建设工作。
Count me in!
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ysun
United States
Local time: 03:59
English to Chinese
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有人连篇累牍，提出了如何核实母语的建议，于是有人问道： “Why do you care what people claim?” 这话问得好。真正有实力的人，还在乎这个吗？甭管有什么冠冕堂皇的理由，说穿了，某些人就是怕别人夺了自己的饭碗。为什么别人能夺了自己的饭碗？如果找不出问题的关键，即使挖空心思想出各种办法来限制别人，那也是白搭。谓予不信，那就骑驴看唱本吧！
《西游记》中，悟能总觉得是悟空坏了他的美事，于是就总是撺掇唐僧念紧箍咒。结果怎么样呢？
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andyyin1107
Australia
Local time: 18:59
Chinese to English
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| Native Language | Aug 8, 2012 |
I believe that Native language refers to the language you speak at home most of the time. Especially for children under the age of 12, who are believed to have the ability to grasp more than two languages.
For native language, you will be able to understand without even paying attention to . Such as listening to the radio while doing the housework. You should understand thoroughly while you are concentrating doing sth else. Then you can call it your native language or mother tongue.
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| language you dream in | Aug 8, 2012 |
wherestip wrote:
I would say it's the language you think in.
Another way to think of it is when you dream(REM sleep), what language do you speak in?
I used to think the same way until I found out that one of my friends—whom I know to be a native English speaker—actually dreams in Chinese…
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| native language | Aug 8, 2012 |
andyyin1107 wrote:
I believe that Native language refers to the language you speak at home most of the time. Especially for children under the age of 12, who are believed to have the ability to grasp more than two languages.
This is strictly speaking not correct. In Canada, for example, many second-generation Chinese speak Chinese at home (esp. when talking to parents) but English elsewhere. According to your definition they would not be native English speakers, yet they are, and they often speak English much better than they speak Chinese.
For native language, you will be able to understand without even paying attention to . Such as listening to the radio while doing the housework. You should understand thoroughly while you are concentrating doing sth else. Then you can call it your native language or mother tongue.
I wish it were this simple.
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 03:59
Chinese to English
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| True bilinguals | Aug 8, 2012 |
Ambrose Li wrote: wherestip wrote:
I would say it's the language you think in.
Another way to think of it is when you dream(REM sleep), what language do you speak in? I used to think the same way until I found out that one of my friends—whom I know to be a native English speaker—actually dreams in Chinese…
Well, perhaps the person actually has 2 native languages then. That is not as impossible as some people make it out to be.
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Tracy Fan
Local time: 16:59
English to Chinese
Phil Hand wrote:
一般来说我不太主张“中译外校对“的翻译模式，唯一成功的经验是在做医学文件时，译者都是中国医生，翻得非常到位，核对一下修理表达问题即可。
或许偏离了本帖的主题，但我觉得还是有必要说下（仅仅针对中译外校对模式来说），C-E，以英语为母语的人，翻的一般句子顺畅，辞藻优美，这个是有普遍共识的。但是比起这个，我觉得更重要的是“信”。以英语为母语的人普遍对汉语的理解没那么深，意思可能会出现偏差。再者，中文的东西，有许多中国化的因素，老外细节方面把握不好，大面上改改是可以的。这是我的亲身经验。所以中译外校对这个模式如果运用的好，双方有效沟通，反而比较能把握质量。
不单单是医学方面，许多专业领域都有这个问题。其实很多译员觉得自己译的很不错，往往最终客户拿到手里是没办法用的，这不单单是语言顺不顺，美不美的问题了，是效用的问题。当你多年积累，渐渐深入了解一个行业后，回过头来看看自己之前的译文，或许会吓出一身冷汗。
PS：诚实是美德！自己的母语是什么，自己最清楚，有些事情没有必要。
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 16:59
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER | 理论上是这样，但是。。。 | Aug 26, 2012 |
Tracy Fan wrote:
C-E，以英语为母语的人，翻的一般句子顺畅，辞藻优美，这个是有普遍共识的。但是比起这个，我觉得更重要的是“信”。以英语为母语的人普遍对汉语的理解没那么深，意思可能会出现偏差。再者，中文的东西，有许多中国化的因素，老外细节方面把握不好，大面上改改是可以的。这是我的亲身经验。所以中译外校对这个模式如果运用的好，双方有效沟通，反而比较能把握质量。
不单单是医学方面，许多专业领域都有这个问题。其实很多译员觉得自己译的很不错，往往最终客户拿到手里是没办法用的，这不单单是语言顺不顺，美不美的问题了，是效用的问题。当你多年积累，渐渐深入了解一个行业后，回过头来看看自己之前的译文，或许会吓出一身冷汗。
理论上是这样子，但是呢，其中有一个不成立的假设：中文为母语的人一定看懂原文。正是因为太多中文为母语的人以为，只要是中文的文件，自己一定能理解，导致了很多很尴尬的译误。
这个模式的主要问题是：你把外国人的角色限制为“美化”。因为往往用看不懂中文的外国人，译者的错误或不清晰的表述根本无法改善，而我同意你的观点：“信”最重要，但在你这个模式下，校对人不可能让译文更加“信”，那么，不就多余吗？
好的工作流程中，无论是什么行业，每个工作环节必须有实际的作用和效果。中翻外对的模式中，翻译质量完全依赖于译者的能力 - 但是每个译者都会出错误的。而校对变得无关紧要的。这个模式就有本质上的问题。
反过来说，如果是外翻中对的一个工序，有可能译者犯错了，但还有第二次抓错误的机会。从综合效力的角度来讲，这样子支配资源应该更加合理吧。
各位觉得呢？
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 03:59
Chinese to English
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| 润色人中文一点儿不懂当然不行 | Aug 26, 2012 |
Phil Hand wrote:
这个模式的主要问题是：你把外国人的角色限制为“美化”。因为往往用看不懂中文的外国人，译者的错误或不清晰的表述根本无法改善，
That's for sure. If it's a turd to start out with, it's still going to be a turd no matter how much polishing is done to it. It's truly garbage in, garbage out in that case.
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ysun
United States
Local time: 03:59
English to Chinese
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