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Cultural difference leads to poppycock? （几个单词的翻译） Thread poster: Alan Wang
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Jinhang Wang 
China
Local time: 00:55
English to Chinese
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ysun wrote: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ground%20level Noun
1. ground level - the height of the ground on which something stands; "the base of the tower was below grade"
2. ground level - the floor of a building that is at or nearest to the level of the ground around the building 敝人以为，并非中英文化差异，亦非英美文化差异。只是理解和表达方面的差异。换言之，是取上述定义之 1 还是取其 2，是把 ground level 译为“地面”还是“一楼”，是把 above 译为“高于”还是“以上”。 [Edited at 2013-09-01 13:28 GMT]
把 ground level 译为“地面”还是“一楼”是关键。
把 above 译为“高于”还是“以上” ，还是用“高于”好，免得歧义。
[Edited at 2013-09-01 14:41 GMT]
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nigerose
China
Local time: 00:55
Chinese to English
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Relocate all critical equipment from low-lying basement areas to floors above ground level.
floors above ground level
试译：地上的楼层。避免一楼以上还是二楼以上之争。
参考：
地下室失火两百人疏散- 京华时报·京华网
epaper.jinghua.cn/html/2010-05/15/content_548894.htm
2010年5月15日 - 由于消防员灭火及时，大火并未蔓延至地上的楼层。 昨天上午9点左右，记者赶到现场时看到，地下室楼道口的墙壁已经被完全熏黑，楼道内弥漫着焦 ...
[修改时间: 2013-09-01 14:38 GMT]
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Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 00:55
English to Chinese
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| "地上各楼层" 更有歧义了 | Sep 1, 2013 |
nigerose wrote: Relocate all critical equipment from low-lying basement areas to floors above ground level. floors above ground level 译：地上各楼层。 把floors的复数译出就可以，避免了一楼以上还是二楼以上之争。 参考： http://baike.baidu.com/view/608169.htm “云来集宿舍”为地上五层楼（共182间寝室）暨地下一层楼之建筑，每间寝室内皆备有卫浴之套房设备；除部分残障房外，概分为2人房暨4人房，总计约有500床位。宿舍内计有交谊厅一间、阅览室一间、学生社团办公室（暂借）二间、自助餐厅一间、商品贩卖部一间、面食部一间、咖啡坊一间；地上各楼层皆有茶水间、洗衣间、晾衣间、投币式自动洗烘衣机等。 查看技术方案 - 建工集团上海市建筑装饰工程有限公司 www.scdec.com › 原创风采 › 技术方案 我部施工区域虽为地下一层及地下二层，但施工总体难易程度并不亚于地上各楼层施工。钻石体楼梯、溜冰场是我部这次施工之亮点，也是整个演艺中心施工之亮点和 ...
above ground level 里 level 是强调一种高度的意思，above ground level 就是高于地（平）面。
“地上各楼层”译过来就是 floors on the ground，不准确。
还是用“高于地面”的译法更明确。
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ysun
United States
Local time: 11:55
English to Chinese
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J.H. Wang wrote:
把 ground level 译为“地面”还是“一楼”是关键。
把 above 译为“高于”还是“以上” ，还是用“高于”好，免得歧义。
[Edited at 2013-09-01 14:41 GMT]
我同意你的意见。
实际上，中国人用“以上”和“以下”已经用了几千年了。古人说的“二楼以上”和“二楼以下”都是包括二楼的。但是，现在“以上”和“以下”已经被人用乱了，所以很多文件都要在“以上”和“以下”之后加括弧说明。例如，“县以上（含本级）机关”，“省级以下（不含省）行政机构”等。我前面之所以说“高于......”比“......以上”为佳，就是因为可以排除很多人对“以上”一词的不同理解。
http://www.gov.cn/gongbao/content/2010/content_1688565.htm
第二条 本办法所称税收规范性文件，是指县以上（含本级）税务机关依照法定职权和规定程序制定并公布的，规定纳税人、扣缴义务人及其他税务行政相对人（以下简称税务行政相对人）权利、义务，在本辖区内具有普遍约束力并反复适用的文件。
[Edited at 2013-09-01 20:00 GMT]
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nigerose
China
Local time: 00:55
Chinese to English
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J.H. Wang wrote: nigerose wrote: Relocate all critical equipment from low-lying basement areas to floors above ground level. floors above ground level 译：地上各楼层。 把floors的复数译出就可以，避免了一楼以上还是二楼以上之争。 参考： http://baike.baidu.com/view/608169.htm “云来集宿舍”为地上五层楼（共182间寝室）暨地下一层楼之建筑，每间寝室内皆备有卫浴之套房设备；除部分残障房外，概分为2人房暨4人房，总计约有500床位。宿舍内计有交谊厅一间、阅览室一间、学生社团办公室（暂借）二间、自助餐厅一间、商品贩卖部一间、面食部一间、咖啡坊一间；地上各楼层皆有茶水间、洗衣间、晾衣间、投币式自动洗烘衣机等。 查看技术方案 - 建工集团上海市建筑装饰工程有限公司 www.scdec.com › 原创风采 › 技术方案 我部施工区域虽为地下一层及地下二层，但施工总体难易程度并不亚于地上各楼层施工。钻石体楼梯、溜冰场是我部这次施工之亮点，也是整个演艺中心施工之亮点和 ... above ground level 里 level 是强调一种高度的意思，above ground level 就是高于地（平）面。 “地上各楼层”译过来就是 floors on the ground，不准确。 还是用“高于地面”的译法更明确。
“地上各楼层”适合这里给出的例子，但我很快意识到不适合楼主的句子，我改成了“地上的楼层“。
显然，这里的“地上”就是“高于地面”的意思（对应于英文的above）。而不是“与地面接触”的意思（对应于英文的on）。
[修改时间: 2013-09-01 15:04 GMT]
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ysun
United States
Local time: 11:55
English to Chinese
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J.H. Wang wrote:
还是用“高于地面”的译法更明确。
完全同意。我们这里盖楼，都必须遵守各种法律规范和工程规范。Ground floor 一般都得高于 the level of the ground around the building，后者一般又得高于 street level。这不光是为了防洪，也是为了楼内正常排水的需要。所以，ground floor 足够高于 ground level 的情况是很普遍的。lbone 前面所说的“半地下”的地下室，在我们这里也是常见的。如果地下室实际上是“半地下”，那么ground floor 就必然足够高于 the level of the ground around the building。 如果 ground floor 不足够高于 ground level 和 street level，那么下暴雨时楼里就必须把所有厕所全部锁住。
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Alan Wang
China
Local time: 00:55
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | This is no poppycocking | Sep 1, 2013 |
果然是大师，理解就是精到。
ysun wrote: lbone wrote:
如果你想问为什么一楼也可以？我觉得在以下两种情况都是可以的：
1）有的楼一楼就很高，高出地面一米甚至两米左右，这种楼的地下室实际上是“半地下”。你可以去了解一下“半地下”这种建筑结构。
2）有的房子虽然有地下室，但没有二楼。
又仔细看了看原文，这篇中 floors above ground level 的意思是“高于地面的楼层”。 平心而论，上述“高于地面的楼层”就是一种 better translation。即使原作者明确其所谓的 ground level 就是指 ground floor，而不是指 the level of the ground around the building，那么“高于一楼的楼层”也比“地面二楼以上”为佳。
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Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 00:55
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nigerose
China
Local time: 00:55
Chinese to English
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“地上的楼层”或者“地上楼层”中的“地上”，是指“地面以上”。在涉及建筑物的语境中，我想中国人都能明白这个意思。
原文：Relocate all critical equipment from low-lying basement areas to floors above ground level.
“floors above ground level“的翻译也要结合全句上下文，即floors是相对于”low-lying basement （地下室） “而言的，因此我认为翻译为“地上的楼层”或者“地上楼层”应该可以或者更好。
因此，原文的ground level应该指地面，而不是ground floor。
二楼或者二楼以上可以认为不存在防水问题，那么与地面相连的一楼如何防水呢？上面附图中的”ground level“、 ”ground floor bed“提供了答案。
[修改时间: 2013-09-02 01:13 GMT]
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看了大家的讨论，又了解了不少建筑方面的知识，呵呵。
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Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 00:55
English to Chinese
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nigerose wrote: “地上的楼层”或者“地上楼层”中的“地上”，是指“地面以上”。在涉及建筑物的语境中，我想中国人都能明白这个意思。 原文：Relocate all critical equipment from low-lying basement areas to floors above ground level. “floors above ground level“的翻译也要结合全句上下文，即floors是相对于”low-lying basement （地下室） “而言的，因此我认为翻译为“地上的楼层”或者“地上楼层”应该可以或者更好。 因此，原文的ground level应该指地面，而不是ground floor。 二楼或者二楼以上可以认为不存在防水问题，那么与地面相连的一楼如何防水呢？上面附图中的”ground level“、 ”ground floor bed“提供了答案。 [修改时间: 2013-09-02 01:13 GMT]
再看了一下，放在这里的语境中，大体可以。但是，由于汉语语言的限制，似乎仍显得不够精确。
[Edited at 2013-09-02 01:41 GMT]
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Alan Wang
China
Local time: 00:55
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | It needs to be treaded carefully | Sep 2, 2013 |
In this sentence, "by" should be "from", then it will make complete sense.
In fact, I believe proofreading is a process full of pitfalls, one simply cannot be too careful. One might be forgiven for not correcting an error, but it would be hard for an outsourcer to swallow if one adds an error in the process.
Reasonable fee should be over half of that a translator charges for translation.
J.H. Wang wrote: Alan Wang wrote: Common sense Relocate all critical equipment from low-lying basement areas to floors above ground level (floor). It’s not really necessary to add the last word. What is necessary here is the translator’s common sense. I once detected an error in a sentence:
Ensure there is no storage in areas which are shielded by ceiling sprinklers.
The error is so obvious to me that I didn’t even mention it. I translated it using common sense. It was then proofread and sent back to me for a check to see if I agree to the changes. Sure enough, I saw the proofreader changed my translation of this sentence, it was now perfectly in line with its meaning. There is only one problem. It was wrong instruction! What is the wrong about the sentence? I will reveal it later if needed. [Edited at 2013-08-30 14:48 GMT] 原文是想表达“保护”的意思。我不是很确定这个词用得是否足够准确，我觉得基本上可以读得懂。 [Edited at 2013-08-30 15:17 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-09-02 06:05 GMT]
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Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 00:55
English to Chinese
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| 清楚 shielded 的意思较重要 | Sep 2, 2013 |
Alan Wang wrote: In this sentence, "by" should be "from", then it will make complete sense. In fact, I believe proofreading is a process full of pitfalls, one simply cannot be too careful. One might be forgiven for not correcting an error, but it would be hard for an outsourcer to swallow if one adds an error in the process. Reasonable fee should be over half of that a translator charges for translation. J.H. Wang wrote: Alan Wang wrote: Common sense Relocate all critical equipment from low-lying basement areas to floors above ground level (floor). It’s not really necessary to add the last word. What is necessary here is the translator’s common sense. I once detected an error in a sentence:
Ensure there is no storage in areas which are shielded by ceiling sprinklers.
The error is so obvious to me that I didn’t even mention it. I translated it using common sense. It was then proofread and sent back to me for a check to see if I agree to the changes. Sure enough, I saw the proofreader changed my translation of this sentence, it was now perfectly in line with its meaning. There is only one problem. It was wrong instruction! What is the wrong about the sentence? I will reveal it later if needed. [Edited at 2013-08-30 14:48 GMT] 原文是想表达“保护”的意思。我不是很确定这个词用得是否足够准确，我觉得基本上可以读得懂。 [Edited at 2013-08-30 15:17 GMT] [Edited at 2013-09-02 06:05 GMT]
如果你觉得 from 比较好，那好吧。
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nigerose
China
Local time: 00:55
Chinese to English
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shielded后面有接by的，也有接from的，要根据意思而定。
专业文章的翻译，难点不一定在专业术语，反而在常见的介词上。
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Alan Wang
China
Local time: 00:55
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
Regarding proofreading, the proofreader has far less time to spend on a file than the translator, so less reason to believe s/he can see things straight where the translator failed if the translator failed.
Over the time, I have somehow developed a motto: don’t make a change if you are not certain it is obviously better than the original. This may be relaxed a little if the original translation is too good and at the same time you need to leave your mark. So the obviously better ... See more Regarding proofreading, the proofreader has far less time to spend on a file than the translator, so less reason to believe s/he can see things straight where the translator failed if the translator failed.
Over the time, I have somehow developed a motto: don’t make a change if you are not certain it is obviously better than the original. This may be relaxed a little if the original translation is too good and at the same time you need to leave your mark. So the obviously better can be sometimes changed for apparently or seemingly better.
And Never make a significant change, if you have not gone over it again and again and are absolutely sure that the original translation is wrong. This is more important, especially if the translator is a 高手。
[Edited at 2013-09-02 09:23 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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