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对于“turned down",是不是这样翻译最符合原文?
Thread poster: Kemp9
Ying Wang
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对等 Oct 8, 2013

wherestip wrote:

http://hotword.dictionary.com/happiness/



“The pursuit of Happiness” was thought to be an unalienable right by the writers of the US Declaration of Independence. However, in 1776, the definition of happiness evoked a different meaning than it does today. When the framers of this historic document wrote about “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness,” what exactly did they mean by “happiness”?

The term happiness comes from the Old Norse term happ meaning “luck” or “chance.” It’s also related to the Old English word hæpic meaning “equal.” While early senses of happiness dating from the 1500s are still very much in use, such as “good luck,” “success,” and “contentment,” Francis Hutcheson, an Irish reverend and philosopher pictured here, brought a new, more political interpretation of happiness to English speakers with his 1725 treatise An Inquiry into the Original of Our Ideas of Beauty and Virtue. His political philosophy: “that Action is best which accomplishes the greatest Happiness for the greatest Numbers; and that worst, which in like manner occasions Misery.” The popularity of Hutcheson’s philosophies helped tie the concepts of civic responsibility and happiness to one another in the minds of the great political thinkers of the 18th century, including the writers of the Declaration of Independence.

US Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy explained this often forgotten sense of happiness in his 2005 lecture at the National Conference on Citizenship. Kennedy notes that while in modern times there is a “hedonistic component” to the definition of happiness, for the framers of the Declaration of Independence “happiness meant that feeling of self-worth and dignity you acquire by contributing to your community and to its civic life.” In the context of the Declaration of Independence, happiness was about an individual’s contribution to society rather than pursuits of self-gratification. While this sense has largely fallen out of use today, it’s important to keep these connotations of happiness mind when studying political documents from the 18th century.




有意思,看看下面的这段关于幸福的解释,看起来,与happiness的初始意思惊人相似呀。
http://blog.jxcn.cn/u/guodong/202015.html

那么,幸福的状况到底是个什么样子?《说文解字》中对幸福的“幸”是这么解释的:“幸,吉而免凶。”即免于凶患,大吉大利,无病无灾是谓幸。“福”字,左边的偏旁原是指古时祭祀用的祭台(象形),右为祭祀酒食。在甲骨文中,“福”是两手捧酒浇于祭台之上的会意字,是古代祭祀的形象写照。《说文解字》对“福”的解释基本采用的是《左传》上的说法:“福,佑也。”意为祈祷风调雨顺,五谷丰登,生命安康。后来的人又将其义引申,认为有衣避寒(左为衣字旁),有屋栖身(右上之“一”表房屋的横梁),人丁兴旺(右中之“口”),有食饱腹(右下之“田”表有田可耕,有收获),是谓福。
总起来说,幸福的状况,原是指一个人无病无灾,衣可避寒,食可饱腹,居有定所,生活安顿之情状。

幸福与幸福感,前者是一种客观实在的状况,后者是对这种状况的感受。如果将幸福的状况描述为吃饱穿暖,无病无灾,居有定所,生活安顿之情状,那么幸福的感觉就是那种无忧无虑、快乐、祥和、温暖、甜蜜的感觉。

幸福与幸福感,并不是一码事,一是存在,一是感受。因此,如果一个人对你说,他不幸福,其实他往往是在说,他没有感到幸福,或是没有幸福感。


 
wherestip
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The meaning of "happiness" in the Declaration of Independence by the founding fathers Oct 8, 2013

我反而觉得与 "... , 其乐无穷" 意思更为相仿。

比如说 按照上面一段英文解释的意思编一句吧: "为社会与公共利益作出贡献, 其乐无穷"。 所以是否 当初撰写 美国独立宣言 的鼻祖们在当时时代背景下对 happiness 取的意思 更接近于 "快乐"、"欢乐"呢?

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

p.s., 又仔细看了一下 Ying Wang 的发言,咱们好像是说岔了... 怪我 ! Anyway ...


[Edited at 2013-10-09 05:32 GMT]


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
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的确如此 Oct 9, 2013

Ying Wang wrote:

wherestip wrote:

http://hotword.dictionary.com/happiness/



“The pursuit of Happiness” was thought to be an unalienable right by the writers of the US Declaration of Independence. However, in 1776, the definition of happiness evoked a different meaning than it does today. When the framers of this historic document wrote about “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness,” what exactly did they mean by “happiness”?

The term happiness comes from the Old Norse term happ meaning “luck” or “chance.” It’s also related to the Old English word hæpic meaning “equal.” While early senses of happiness dating from the 1500s are still very much in use, such as “good luck,” “success,” and “contentment,” Francis Hutcheson, an Irish reverend and philosopher pictured here, brought a new, more political interpretation of happiness to English speakers with his 1725 treatise An Inquiry into the Original of Our Ideas of Beauty and Virtue. His political philosophy: “that Action is best which accomplishes the greatest Happiness for the greatest Numbers; and that worst, which in like manner occasions Misery.” The popularity of Hutcheson’s philosophies helped tie the concepts of civic responsibility and happiness to one another in the minds of the great political thinkers of the 18th century, including the writers of the Declaration of Independence.

US Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy explained this often forgotten sense of happiness in his 2005 lecture at the National Conference on Citizenship. Kennedy notes that while in modern times there is a “hedonistic component” to the definition of happiness, for the framers of the Declaration of Independence “happiness meant that feeling of self-worth and dignity you acquire by contributing to your community and to its civic life.” In the context of the Declaration of Independence, happiness was about an individual’s contribution to society rather than pursuits of self-gratification. While this sense has largely fallen out of use today, it’s important to keep these connotations of happiness mind when studying political documents from the 18th century.




有意思,看看下面的这段关于幸福的解释,看起来,与happiness的初始意思惊人相似呀。
http://blog.jxcn.cn/u/guodong/202015.html

那么,幸福的状况到底是个什么样子?《说文解字》中对幸福的“幸”是这么解释的:“幸,吉而免凶。”即免于凶患,大吉大利,无病无灾是谓幸。“福”字,左边的偏旁原是指古时祭祀用的祭台(象形),右为祭祀酒食。在甲骨文中,“福”是两手捧酒浇于祭台之上的会意字,是古代祭祀的形象写照。《说文解字》对“福”的解释基本采用的是《左传》上的说法:“福,佑也。”意为祈祷风调雨顺,五谷丰登,生命安康。后来的人又将其义引申,认为有衣避寒(左为衣字旁),有屋栖身(右上之“一”表房屋的横梁),人丁兴旺(右中之“口”),有食饱腹(右下之“田”表有田可耕,有收获),是谓福。
总起来说,幸福的状况,原是指一个人无病无灾,衣可避寒,食可饱腹,居有定所,生活安顿之情状。

幸福与幸福感,前者是一种客观实在的状况,后者是对这种状况的感受。如果将幸福的状况描述为吃饱穿暖,无病无灾,居有定所,生活安顿之情状,那么幸福的感觉就是那种无忧无虑、快乐、祥和、温暖、甜蜜的感觉。

幸福与幸福感,并不是一码事,一是存在,一是感受。因此,如果一个人对你说,他不幸福,其实他往往是在说,他没有感到幸福,或是没有幸福感。



http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=VAX_mxmrBdbpjOZL7kwkpzH6VQ4TBKYtQjJQf8cJPOOzV9rC5Yofm3MfQhMwH3LHEJ3KPH6VUo1AloCR-yk_pzftoNhGiuCCTdEo7FGC07pXh6cJ60Oa-R5tVCL41y0K


事实上,随着我对英语了解的增多,我发现中英文之间意思相同或相近的词语也是非常多的。


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
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From the Merriam-Webster online dictionary Oct 9, 2013





http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/happiness

hap·pi·ness noun \ˈha-pē-nəs\
: the state of being happy

: an experience that makes you happy

Full Definition of HAPPINESS

1
obsolete : good fortune : prosperity

2
a : a state of well-being and contentment : joy
b : a pleasurable or satisfying experience

3
: felicity, aptness





See happiness defined for English-language learners »

happiness
One entry found.

hap·pi·ness /ˈhæpinəs/ noun
plural hap·pi·ness·es

1 (noncount) : the state of being happy : joy
▪ They made a toast to long life and happiness. ▪ They found happiness together.

2 (count) somewhat formal : an experience that makes you happy
▪ I wish the them every happiness. (=I hope that they will be very happy)





I don't want to keep dragging this discussion out forever, but between "幸福“ and "快乐", I still think the latter is more fitting for the "happiness" in the "Come on, get happy" segment of text.


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 21:16
English to Chinese
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同意 Oct 9, 2013

wherestip wrote:

I don't want to keep dragging this discussion out forever, but between "幸福“ and "快乐", I still think the latter is more fitting for the "happiness" in the "Come on, get happy" segment of text.


在这篇文章中,还是"快乐"更准确些。"幸福“ 的内涵比"快乐"更丰富、厚重。


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
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In other words Oct 9, 2013

I still think it is more of an issue of how one interprets the Chinese term "幸福".

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

BTW, I was at a Chinese restaurant yesterday, and while waiting for my takeout, I picked up a copy of a Chinese newspaper "侨报". It had a lot to say about "幸福". But to bring it up for discussion might be like opening another whole can of worms.


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 21:16
English to Chinese
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幸福与快乐的一点简单的比较 Oct 9, 2013

根据我个人的体会,幸福是一种时间比较持久、比较深沉厚重的心理体验。相对而言,快乐往往是一种相对较为短暂的、不太深沉的心理体验。

大致的看法,欢迎拍砖。

[Edited at 2013-10-09 14:29 GMT]


 
wherestip
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“幸福” 传统上的释义 Oct 9, 2013

J.H. Wang wrote:

根据我个人的体会,幸福是一种时间比较持久、比较深沉厚重的心理体验。相对而言,快乐往往是一种相对较为短暂的、不太深沉的心理体验。

大致的看法,欢迎拍砖。



我同意你的看法。 而且传统上的理解,"幸福"与否 和物质上的充裕与否有一定关联,"快乐"则不然。穷人一样有"快乐"的时刻(逝去的),要说是过着"幸福" 的生活就比较牵强了(持续的)。


[Edited at 2013-10-09 15:46 GMT]


 
Phil Hand
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不用说到传统 Oct 10, 2013

幸福现在的用法还概括了英语的 lucky。
比如说,生日的时候收到大礼物,朋友很可能说:哇,你好幸福啊!/Oh my god, you're so lucky!
在我看来,幸福主要是指人的外在情况,如果想明确内在心情的话,还得加一个字:幸福感。而happiness 恰恰是心理感觉。


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 21:16
English to Chinese
+ ...
幸福的内涵比较广 Oct 10, 2013

Phil Hand wrote:

幸福现在的用法还概括了英语的 lucky。
比如说,生日的时候收到大礼物,朋友很可能说:哇,你好幸福啊!/Oh my god, you're so lucky!
在我看来,幸福主要是指人的外在情况,如果想明确内在心情的话,还得加一个字:幸福感。而happiness 恰恰是心理感觉。



除了Phil 说的那种 lucky的情况外,我觉得,它既可以指一种心理体验(接近于 happy),也可以指一种客观的生活状态(这种情况下,意思接近于 well-being)。


纠正一下,前面说是持久的状态,现在看来,也可以指短暂的状态。


 
Kemp9
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TOPIC STARTER
综合原文的意思,应是指,来,幸福起来 Oct 10, 2013

J.H. Wang wrote:

wherestip wrote:

I don't want to keep dragging this discussion out forever, but between "幸福“ and "快乐", I still think the latter is more fitting for the "happiness" in the "Come on, get happy" segment of text.


在这篇文章中,还是"快乐"更准确些。"幸福“ 的内涵比"快乐"更丰富、厚重。


综合原文的意思,应是指,来,幸福起来——可能这是讽刺,意思是说人们追求错误的幸福;另外单单是指快乐,不是作者的意图,作者讲到冥想等,自然讲到幸福这种“时间比较持久、比较深沉厚重的心理体验”——还是那句话,应该联系上下文。


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 21:16
English to Chinese
+ ...
关于幸福与幸福感的一点看法 Oct 10, 2013

Ying Wang wrote:

wherestip wrote:

http://hotword.dictionary.com/happiness/



“The pursuit of Happiness” was thought to be an unalienable right by the writers of the US Declaration of Independence. However, in 1776, the definition of happiness evoked a different meaning than it does today. When the framers of this historic document wrote about “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness,” what exactly did they mean by “happiness”?

The term happiness comes from the Old Norse term happ meaning “luck” or “chance.” It’s also related to the Old English word hæpic meaning “equal.” While early senses of happiness dating from the 1500s are still very much in use, such as “good luck,” “success,” and “contentment,” Francis Hutcheson, an Irish reverend and philosopher pictured here, brought a new, more political interpretation of happiness to English speakers with his 1725 treatise An Inquiry into the Original of Our Ideas of Beauty and Virtue. His political philosophy: “that Action is best which accomplishes the greatest Happiness for the greatest Numbers; and that worst, which in like manner occasions Misery.” The popularity of Hutcheson’s philosophies helped tie the concepts of civic responsibility and happiness to one another in the minds of the great political thinkers of the 18th century, including the writers of the Declaration of Independence.

US Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy explained this often forgotten sense of happiness in his 2005 lecture at the National Conference on Citizenship. Kennedy notes that while in modern times there is a “hedonistic component” to the definition of happiness, for the framers of the Declaration of Independence “happiness meant that feeling of self-worth and dignity you acquire by contributing to your community and to its civic life.” In the context of the Declaration of Independence, happiness was about an individual’s contribution to society rather than pursuits of self-gratification. While this sense has largely fallen out of use today, it’s important to keep these connotations of happiness mind when studying political documents from the 18th century.




有意思,看看下面的这段关于幸福的解释,看起来,与happiness的初始意思惊人相似呀。
http://blog.jxcn.cn/u/guodong/202015.html

那么,幸福的状况到底是个什么样子?《说文解字》中对幸福的“幸”是这么解释的:“幸,吉而免凶。”即免于凶患,大吉大利,无病无灾是谓幸。“福”字,左边的偏旁原是指古时祭祀用的祭台(象形),右为祭祀酒食。在甲骨文中,“福”是两手捧酒浇于祭台之上的会意字,是古代祭祀的形象写照。《说文解字》对“福”的解释基本采用的是《左传》上的说法:“福,佑也。”意为祈祷风调雨顺,五谷丰登,生命安康。后来的人又将其义引申,认为有衣避寒(左为衣字旁),有屋栖身(右上之“一”表房屋的横梁),人丁兴旺(右中之“口”),有食饱腹(右下之“田”表有田可耕,有收获),是谓福。
总起来说,幸福的状况,原是指一个人无病无灾,衣可避寒,食可饱腹,居有定所,生活安顿之情状。

幸福与幸福感,前者是一种客观实在的状况,后者是对这种状况的感受。如果将幸福的状况描述为吃饱穿暖,无病无灾,居有定所,生活安顿之情状,那么幸福的感觉就是那种无忧无虑、快乐、祥和、温暖、甜蜜的感觉。

幸福与幸福感,并不是一码事,一是存在,一是感受。因此,如果一个人对你说,他不幸福,其实他往往是在说,他没有感到幸福,或是没有幸福感。




引文中有“幸福与幸福感,并不是一码事,一是存在,一是感受。”的说法。不过,我个人并不认同这种说法。我觉得,一般来说,可以认为一个人感觉到幸福,那他/她就是幸福的。但是,幸福本身与有“幸福”这种观念并不是一回事。前者是指处于实际的幸福状态,后者是指对幸福概念的认知。就像现在大家普遍都有的成功观念一样,有这个观念和处于成功的状态不是一回事。

[Edited at 2013-10-10 10:42 GMT]


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 21:16
English to Chinese
+ ...
幸福与快乐有意义重叠 Oct 11, 2013

Kemp9 wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:

wherestip wrote:

I don't want to keep dragging this discussion out forever, but between "幸福“ and "快乐", I still think the latter is more fitting for the "happiness" in the "Come on, get happy" segment of text.


在这篇文章中,还是"快乐"更准确些。"幸福“ 的内涵比"快乐"更丰富、厚重。


综合原文的意思,应是指,来,幸福起来——可能这是讽刺,意思是说人们追求错误的幸福;另外单单是指快乐,不是作者的意图,作者讲到冥想等,自然讲到幸福这种“时间比较持久、比较深沉厚重的心理体验”——还是那句话,应该联系上下文。


具体用哪一个,还是要看具体语境。


 
QHE
QHE
United States
Local time: 09:16
English to Chinese
+ ...
citation for “Happiness” and “Mind” Oct 27, 2013

wherestip wrote:

http://hotword.dictionary.com/happiness/



“The pursuit of Happiness” was thought to be an unalienable right by the writers of the US Declaration of Independence. However, in 1776, the definition of happiness evoked a different meaning than it does today. When the framers of this historic document wrote about “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness,” what exactly did they mean by “happiness”?

---

US Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy explained this often forgotten sense of happiness in his 2005 lecture at the National Conference on Citizenship. Kennedy notes that while in modern times there is a “hedonistic component” to the definition of happiness, for the framers of the Declaration of Independence “happiness meant that feeling of self-worth and dignity you acquire by contributing to your community and to its civic life.” In the context of the Declaration of Independence, happiness was about an individual’s contribution to society rather than pursuits of self-gratification. While this sense has largely fallen out of use today, it’s important to keep these connotations of happiness mind when studying political documents from the 18th century.




A court decision cited in one of the documents I’ve come across may illustrate another dimension of happiness:

http://www.ccfjfoundation.net/courtdecFLHiddenHarbour.html

http://www.leagle.com/decision/1979997368So2d629_1835

Judge Downey said:

"... It appears to us that inherent in the condominium concept is the principle that to promote the health, happiness, and peace of mind of the majority of the unit owners since they are living in such close proximity and using facilities in common, each unit owner must give up a certain degree of freedom of choice which he might otherwise enjoy in separate, privately owned property. Condominium unit owners comprise a little democratic sub society of necessity more restrictive as it pertains to use of condominium property than may be existent outside the condominium organization."...


P. S. The statute, bylaws, rules and regulations, that governing the condominium and HOA, are extremely complex legal issues. I have no intention to lift the lid of that box (这里的condominium and HOA 与中国的物业管理和居民委员会是完全不同的).


 
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对于“turned down",是不是这样翻译最符合原文?






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