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Proposal that people who post questions via the Kudoz system be obliged to provide context
Thread poster: Helen Shiner
S E (X)
S E (X)
Italy
Local time: 01:26
Italian to English
ildiko, perhaps you have misunderstood? Dec 28, 2010

ildiko wrote:

With all due respect, the way I see it is that those who became non-members freely chose to do so, which makes me wonder if their goal was to make this a better place or to be right... In my opinion, if their priority had been to improve this site to benefit this community, they would still be here, able to contribute. I fail to see why we should invite to participate in bettering this site those who do not consider themselves part of it.


But surely you have noticed that this forum thread was started (and actively continued) by a non-paying member, and that many of the most thoughtful participating posters are also non-paying members?

Speaking for myself, I withdrew paid membership because I cannot be a paid member of a system that explicitly ties my site-visibility to participation in KudoZ in its present form. But as I have stated on numerous occasions, I greatly value countless other aspects of ProZ.

It is difficult to understand how you might have come to the conclusion those who have withdrawn paid-membership in protest do not care about improving things or consider themselves part of the site, given that the three I can think of, myself included, have continued to be active in a positive and constructive way.


 
Ildiko Santana
Ildiko Santana  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:26
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
good point, writeaway Dec 28, 2010

writeaway wrote:
Please don't confuse non-paying with not caring or not being involved. These people are non-paying members, not non-members.


You're right writeaway, thank you for pointing this out! In my comment I was referring to those who have left the site, not those who are not paying. Sorry..


 
Christel Zipfel
Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:26
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
Don't see the survey neither Dec 28, 2010

I am a paying member, albeit only a partial one. So is the survey restricted to full paying members? Please specify.







[Bearbeitet am 2010-12-28 19:41 GMT]


 
Cetacea
Cetacea  Identity Verified
Switzerland
Local time: 01:26
English to German
+ ...
We are still here Dec 28, 2010

ildiko wrote:
In my opinion, if their priority had been to improve this site to benefit this community, they would still be here, able to contribute. I fail to see why we should invite to participate in bettering this site those who do not consider themselves part of it.


Like many other non-payers, I am still here, and I am still contributing. I'm just not marked as a member anymore, since that distinction is reserved for paying members, which is why I decided to refer to myself as a non-member, too. However, I've always failed to see how paying membership fees would make any contribution more meaningful. I've decided to withdraw my financial support because I don't support the current site policy anymore. That has nothing to do with either my willingness nor my ability to answer terminology questions or participate in professional discussions.


 
Ildiko Santana
Ildiko Santana  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:26
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
yes, some misunderstandings Dec 28, 2010

Yes Sarah, Charlie, I apologize once again. To me the distinction between member - paying member/non-paying member was/is definitely a little confusing.

Cetacea wrote:
Like many other non-payers, I am still here, and I am still contributing.


I'm glad to hear that.

I'm just not marked as a member anymore, since that distinction is reserved for paying members, which is why I decided to refer to myself as a non-member, too.


See, that's what threw me. I thought one can still be a member even if you don't pay a dime. I took it literally when you referred to yourself as "non-member."

However, I've always failed to see how paying membership fees would make any contribution more meaningful.


It was never my intention to imply that. I do not believe that $$$ makes anyone more valuable or more professional or that money should buy any special rights.

I've decided to withdraw my financial support because I don't support the current site policy anymore. That has nothing to do with either my willingness nor my ability to answer terminology questions or participate in professional discussions.


I can fully appreciate your decision, and agree with your last statement 100%.
Once again, I have never meant to imply that those not paying for membership are any less than those who do; sorry if I was somewhat confused. I think all members who contribute to the site and to KudoZ (with their expertise, ideas, knowledge, answers, suggestions and time) should be surveyed (regardless of their monetary contribution).


 
Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:26
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Yes, all users should be able to participate in the survey Dec 29, 2010

Current definitions of people using ProZ.com, AFAIK:
Registered users (sometimes called users): people registered at ProZ.com
Members: registered users paying membership fees
The rest are guests: non-registered people browsing the site

I agree that all registered users should be able to participate in the survey.
Katalin


 
cmwilliams (X)
cmwilliams (X)  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:26
French to English
+ ...
Valid survey? Dec 29, 2010

Helen Shiner wrote:

Based on points earned (only one measure, I know), of the top 20 current (last 3 months) contributors to Kudoz in the German-English section, 8 are non-members. 12 of the top 20 all-time contributors to the French-English section are non-members. I imagine this is replicated throughout other language pairs.
...

I would hope that the survey will be extended to all contributors to Kudoz. If this is not the case, I guess it tells me something about how this contribution is valued.


How valid will this survey be if many of the top contributers to Kudoz are not allowed to vote? It was only through the sheer persistance and determination displayed by the originator of this thread, a user rather than member, that the survey came about in the first place. I can only hope that the staff will reconsider and allow all contributors to Kudoz to have their say.


 
Christel Zipfel
Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:26
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
Well, I see there is no response from staff Dec 29, 2010

(and I still continue to not being able to see the survey).

So, it is restricted not only to paying members but in fact to full paying members, right? Would have been nice if this were mentioned immediately.


 
Rolf Kern
Rolf Kern  Identity Verified
Switzerland
Local time: 01:26
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
Context Dec 29, 2010

The field for "Explanation / More about term" is required, and if you submit a question without entering information in this field you get an error message:


Yes, but the information entered here in most cases in no "context".

[Bearbeitet am 2010-12-29 20:14 GMT]


 
Charlie Bavington
Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:26
French to English
Pile in! Dec 30, 2010

cmwilliams wrote:

How valid will this survey be if many of the top contributers to Kudoz are not allowed to vote?

Fair play to 'em, the great unwashed (unpaying!) are now allowed to have a punt. Well, I was, anyway.

Note to the survey analysts - first survey, Q9 - I really, really, really hope you are cross correlating that with the questions before. I responded truthfully that, out of the last 10 questions I had answered, none were lacking context. That is because, a question or two before, I had told you that I refused to answer questions where I felt the context was lacking. So for the love of God and proper statistics, do not just count me as someone who feels all questions have proper context by virtue of Q9 in isolation. If Q9 had read how many of the last 10 questions I looked at lacked proper context, the answer would probably have been about 7.


 
Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:26
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
I agree, those two questions are not worded right Dec 30, 2010

Charlie Bavington wrote:

Note to the survey analysts - first survey, Q9 - I really, really, really hope you are cross correlating that with the questions before. I responded truthfully that, out of the last 10 questions I had answered, none were lacking context. That is because, a question or two before, I had told you that I refused to answer questions where I felt the context was lacking. So for the love of God and proper statistics, do not just count me as someone who feels all questions have proper context by virtue of Q9 in isolation. If Q9 had read how many of the last 10 questions I looked at lacked proper context, the answer would probably have been about 7.


Actually, I had similar thoughts about those two questions.
One of them asked "what do you do when answering a question that lacks proper context" (or something like that, the "answer" part is sure), and there were choices for "I don't answer it", "I ask for more context, etc.
I thought it was strange to construct the question this way, because the question itself contained the word "answering", so how would someone chose "I don't answer it".

So, I assumed whoever created the survey meant "what do you do when you look at a question that lacks proper context".

Then, the next question was the one Charlie mentioned, too, "out of the 10 questions you answered recently, how many lacked proper context". I was thinking what to do, because as Charlie said, if someone purposely does not answer questions that lack context, then the answer would be 0 - which could be a control question for the previous one, to see if someone selected "I do not answer" would select 0 in this one.
I decided the probability of this being such a control question was low, and instead, they meant the same thing, "questions you answered" really meant "questions you looked at", and I answered according to this interpretation. (I think I said 4 was lacking context.)

My interpretation is different than Charlie's, so I am not sure how the results of these questions of the survey is going to be interpreted...
And I think these two questions were very important.

Katalin


 
Charlie Bavington
Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:26
French to English
The meaning of "answer" Dec 30, 2010

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

So, I assumed whoever created the survey meant "what do you do when you look at a question that lacks proper context".
(...)
I decided the probability of this being such a control question was low, and instead, they meant the same thing, "questions you answered" really meant "questions you looked at", and I answered according to this interpretation. (I think I said 4 was lacking context.)
(...)
And I think these two questions were very important.


I think you are probably right. In fact, I'm sure I've seen "answer" used like that (i.e. roughly = open a question to see if you can provide any help) on the site before. It's a pity I decided to answer so honestly - clearly, given that the survey in general and those Qs in particular are a result of this thread and I more or less agree with the sentiments expressed herein, I should have jusy clicked "10" and moved on.

Still, at least I got to take the survey.


 
philgoddard
philgoddard
United States
German to English
+ ...
I see the survey has closed Jan 4, 2011

When can we expect to see the results?

 
Ernestine Shargool
Ernestine Shargool  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:26
Italian to English
+ ...
Oh NO! Jan 4, 2011

philgoddard wrote:

When can we expect to see the results?


I've been away/busy with visitors etc over the holidays. Just been catching up with work stuff today. Was there a deadline for answering? If so I was too preoccupied with other things to notice it. I imagine other colleagues may have missed it for the same reasons. Is there any chance of extending the answering time?

One of the reasons I didn't respond to the survey immediately was that I found some of the questions/possible answers ambiguous, as pointed out by colleagues on this thread.

I believed I would have some time to consider the questions/replies carefully and perhaps ask for enlightenment...


 
Helen Shiner
Helen Shiner  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:26
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Extension Jan 4, 2011

Ernestine Shargool wrote:

philgoddard wrote:

When can we expect to see the results?


I've been away/busy with visitors etc over the holidays. Just been catching up with work stuff today. Was there a deadline for answering? If so I was too preoccupied with other things to notice it. I imagine other colleagues may have missed it for the same reasons. Is there any chance of extending the answering time?

One of the reasons I didn't respond to the survey immediately was that I found some of the questions/possible answers ambiguous, as pointed out by colleagues on this thread.

I believed I would have some time to consider the questions/replies carefully and perhaps ask for enlightenment...




How disappointing that, as feared, the surveys were only available over the holiday period. Today was the first day back for many people. I do hope, Jared, you will let the survey run for another week at least to allow as many people as possible to have their say. It would be much appreciated.


 
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Proposal that people who post questions via the Kudoz system be obliged to provide context






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