| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > | to Kudoz or not to Kudoz? that is the question Thread poster: Gad Kohenov
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Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X) 
Poland
Local time: 16:16
English to Polish
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| frustrating thing | Jan 3, 2011 |
Another frustrating thing is that when KudoZ editors try to clean things up - by removing questions that violate this rule, for example (in accordance with the instructions), this is sometimes overruled by moderators who make the question visible again. A recent question was squashed by editors twice and reinstated twice.
Editors are asked to read lengthy instructions and even pass a test, then their work ... See more Another frustrating thing is that when KudoZ editors try to clean things up - by removing questions that violate this rule, for example (in accordance with the instructions), this is sometimes overruled by moderators who make the question visible again. A recent question was squashed by editors twice and reinstated twice.
Editors are asked to read lengthy instructions and even pass a test, then their work (performed exactly as instructed) is reversed. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 10:16
Spanish to English
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| What about a notification visible on the question page... | Jan 3, 2011 |
stating:
"This user has asked 02 question(s) in the past 30 days."
with no qualifications as to whether the number in question is bad or good? Both the asker and answers would see this information and can adjust their behavior accordingly.
[Edited at 2011-01-03 22:25 GMT]
| | | | Gad Kohenov
Israel
Local time: 17:16
English to Hebrew
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TOPIC STARTER
One of the better ideas that came up until now. Try to convince the "Powers to be" to implement it. Maybe you should put it up in suggestions. I will support you and all my friends here.
D.F.
| | | | Lingopro
Israel
Local time: 17:16
Hebrew to English
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| My two cents (or more) to this discussion | Jan 3, 2011 |
I think, as frustrating as this subject is (DF's original post), we should remain calm and sane and remember that translators are natural service providers, and as such, we are prone to wanting to help others who are less fortunate than we are in their linguistic capabilities.
Having said that and with respect to the issue at hand, the first and foremost thing each of us can do is exercise more self control (self included) when faced with the "helping/answering" addiction. This is ... See more I think, as frustrating as this subject is (DF's original post), we should remain calm and sane and remember that translators are natural service providers, and as such, we are prone to wanting to help others who are less fortunate than we are in their linguistic capabilities.
Having said that and with respect to the issue at hand, the first and foremost thing each of us can do is exercise more self control (self included) when faced with the "helping/answering" addiction. This is something that does not require "Proz system adjustments", only self discipline.
Any sort of payment for questions/answers (lest it be mentioned) is utterly misplaced in my opinion. I think it misses the entire point of Kudoz, and will probably cause me to shy away from Proz all together.
I enjoy answering questions, particularly from participating answerers, because I am often exposed to interesting reads. However, I do not enjoy answering those who obviously exploit my knowledge or time (I admit it took time to kick the habit of answering those who don’t deserve my help, and I still accidently “relapse” from time to time).
Although I support the idea of a stronger and more united community, I disagree with a requirement for a degree or diploma of sorts. A test or proven work could suffice - some professionals amongst us do not have a diploma to prove their professionalism. Perhaps their mastery of a language pair was attained through other means, yet they have their experience and returning clientele.
I completely agree with Jeff’s suggestion of making a readily visible notification (where is the LIKE button when you need one…???) - I for a fact keep forgetting to look at the hover-over text. Luckily in my languages, most regular “cheaters” have made themselves well known.
To sum, I wish us all abundant and lucrative work, prosperity, healthy and peace in 2011 and beyond! ▲ Collapse
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Germaine
Canada
Local time: 10:16
English to French
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| Another 2 cents... | Jan 4, 2011 |
desertfox wrote:
We provide them with the tough terms and they just add the connecting words. (...) These people present a work that looks exactly as if we did it and give it for a lower price. Happy customer. Comes again and again to that translator. (...) If we all refuse to work for less than a certain price, agencies will have to go to amateurs, and if we don't answer their questions in Kudoz their work will be bad. That way clients will learn a lesson.
I really doubt that for filling some blanks with even a dozen kudoZ, an incompetent translator will suddenly look great. And there is no way that for “connecting words”, his work will look exactly as if “we” did it. On that issue, I fully agree with Lesley Clarke: “(...) if you don't know how to write, you don't know how to write, no matter how much terminology you are able to get off Proz.”
I think that basically, we all refuse to work for less than a “certain price”. After all, we all have to make a living: pay a rent/mortgage, put bread on the table, reimburse the cost of that translation diploma... I live in Montreal and I’m pretty sure that no agency would even try to get a translation for the equivalent of $15/hour: you can’t even get a good typist for that price! But globalization is what it is and there will be someone, somewhere, to jump on the opportunity. So, since what you can call a “certain price” is conditioned by your local economics, what if the "right move" were to leave the domestic markets to their own translators? Realizing that a Canadian contract is translated overseas by a person who doesn’t have a clue of the Canadian corporate laws is much more disturbing to me than the help such a person is professional enough to ask for. I would gain nothing for not helping. No pleasure in watching "junior" (and bad) translations taking place in the glossary and certainly no pride in the resulting image of the site. I prefer to help when I can and to hope for both parties to wake up...
For them to “learn a lesson”, clients have to be able to evaluate by themselves the quality of the translation they are receiving. In fact, first of all, they have to CARE about quality. When you read in bold, on a four-color packaging “ Hi-Definition Slap Wrap... L’enveloppe de claque de Salut-Définition...”, you understand that many people didn’t care: the translator, his client, the commercial artist, the printer... Unfortunately, there is a market for careless translations and as businesses, agencies understand that. I recently visited a Website where instant estimates for a 200,000 words translation (US English-France French) ranged from US$8,017 (“automatic translation + revision (...) eliminating the most serious errors”) to US$27,893 (“2 professional translators + quality control”). The e-mail I received stated a budget of US$2500 for the proofreading under the first option. The client will probably learn something... Will it hurt? I doubt it. And I don’t care: I’m not in the business of serving lessons. There are plenty of potential clients who care and companies who cannot afford to get hurt. Let’s care about these.
| | | | Haluk Erkan
Türkiye
Local time: 17:16
German to Turkish
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people help each other - for nothing
| | | | Gad Kohenov
Israel
Local time: 17:16
English to Hebrew
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TOPIC STARTER | Dear Germaine, | Jan 4, 2011 |
You miss the point entirely. Not in every translation you have long winding sentences. I am not speaking of translating books. Publishers will never get one page from me in the future. At least in my country where they don't pay you a living salary.
I was talking about translations to be done in Excel. Short- two- word- terms-lists.
Ugly work. No "running text" just every line a new tough term. All those parasites have to do is "copy-paste" from your answers. Un point c'est tout!
... See more You miss the point entirely. Not in every translation you have long winding sentences. I am not speaking of translating books. Publishers will never get one page from me in the future. At least in my country where they don't pay you a living salary.
I was talking about translations to be done in Excel. Short- two- word- terms-lists.
Ugly work. No "running text" just every line a new tough term. All those parasites have to do is "copy-paste" from your answers. Un point c'est tout!
We have proofs that such people took clients of ours (mine and not only mine).
If we answer only those who area ctive answerers we will will not be suckers used by parasites. Some of them are suspect of being translation agencies. Coming every Friday with a "shopping list" (for free, since we are suckers). When I saw the same shopping list appears, by the same person, every Friday I decided to "mettre le hola" as they call it in French (put and end to this Paradise for Parasites).
I (and others) will wait for a decision of Proz to put a notice next to the question of such persons, saying: "This asker asked 100 questions and answered none". This is a simple statement of fact, to be interepreted by everyone as they wish. This sign should not disappear until the person gets the hints and start contributing. If they don't it will be clear they can't do it and are not real translators.
If nothing is done we could strike an indefinite time too, or just "vote with our feet" and start an exodus out of here.
One tranalstor told he has no influence here. Wrong G. you are a client here and if we join hands we have tremendous power. I repeat again: they use the policy of divide and rule. We should answer by "United we stand - divided we fall".
Imagine the 10 best kudoz answerers in English>Hebrew "hanging their shoes" as we say in football! practicatlly that means the end there. A strike of a week as I suggested is not enough. A week later parasites will come back. But half a year and they will looking for another profession to 'take the wool of the backs of practiioners"
(I forgot the original French expression). Anyway we work hard and they will reap the fruits!
D.F. ▲ Collapse
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Verbunden werden auch did Schwachen machtig (union is strength).
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Gad Kohenov
Israel
Local time: 17:16
English to Hebrew
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TOPIC STARTER | Hallo Effendi ! | Jan 4, 2011 |
Ein Bashi-bazouk ist null , die Yeniçeri korps ------> die Regierung stürzen
çok teşekkür ederim
The DesertFox salutes the Gray Wolk (Atatürk).
| | | | Gad Kohenov
Israel
Local time: 17:16
English to Hebrew
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Until the parasites take all your work away from you? There is a limit to every joke. And the joke is on all of you!
D.F.
| | | | | Seconding Linguapro - charging for Kudoz use wouldn't help | Jan 4, 2011 |
Linguapro wrote:
Any sort of payment for questions/answers (lest it be mentioned) is utterly misplaced in my opinion. I think it misses the entire point of Kudoz, and will probably cause me to shy away from Proz all together.
I enjoy answering questions, particularly from participating answerers, because I am often exposed to interesting reads. However, I do not enjoy answering those who obviously exploit my knowledge or time (I admit it took time to kick the habit ... See moreLinguapro wrote:
Any sort of payment for questions/answers (lest it be mentioned) is utterly misplaced in my opinion. I think it misses the entire point of Kudoz, and will probably cause me to shy away from Proz all together.
I enjoy answering questions, particularly from participating answerers, because I am often exposed to interesting reads. However, I do not enjoy answering those who obviously exploit my knowledge or time (I admit it took time to kick the habit of answering those who don’t deserve my help, and I still accidently “relapse” from time to time).
Although I support the idea of a stronger and more united community, I disagree with a requirement for a degree or diploma of sorts. A test or proven work could suffice - some professionals amongst us do not have a diploma to prove their professionalism. Perhaps their mastery of a language pair was attained through other means, yet they have their experience and returning clientele.
To my mind, the simplest test of all is whether users have given any answers which were accepted. Is it unreasonable to expect users to answer three questions successfully before being allowed ask questions?
The system currently differentiates between PRO and NON-PRO questions. I would like to see a system with PRO and NON-PRO askers. Non-pro askers could ask questions which would appear in Kudoz, but no e-mail notifications would be sent out about them, so the askers would not get answers in real time. This would help those of us who sometimes "relapse" and answer questions on the basis that the asker has already wasted our time by having a question sent out to us; answering it won't waste any more time.
The NON-PRO questions would have to be on a "not for points" basis to avoid NON-PROs grading each other's questions.
All that said, I am personally very happy with Kudoz at the moment. Years ago, I used to answer random questions. Now that I have grown up, I only answer questions in my strongest fields. Not very many questions are sent to me, and the ones I get are generally interesting. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Unedited since many days |
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Lingopro
Israel
Local time: 17:16
Hebrew to English
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| Nice idea from Sarah: | Jan 5, 2011 |
The system currently differentiates between PRO and NON-PRO questions. I would like to see a system with PRO and NON-PRO askers. Non-pro askers could ask questions which would appear in Kudoz, but no e-mail notifications would be sent out about them, so the askers would not get answers in real time. This would help those of us who sometimes "relapse" and answer questions on the basis that the asker has already wasted our time by having a question sent out to us; answering it won't ... See more The system currently differentiates between PRO and NON-PRO questions. I would like to see a system with PRO and NON-PRO askers. Non-pro askers could ask questions which would appear in Kudoz, but no e-mail notifications would be sent out about them, so the askers would not get answers in real time. This would help those of us who sometimes "relapse" and answer questions on the basis that the asker has already wasted our time by having a question sent out to us; answering it won't waste any more time.
The NON-PRO questions would have to be on a "not for points" basis to avoid NON-PROs grading each other's questions.
▲ Collapse
| | | | Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)
Poland
Local time: 16:16
English to Polish
+ ...
| PRO and non-PRO askers | Jan 5, 2011 |
And by what criteria would the PRO group be formed? KudoZ points could be viable; however, this would make it difficult to jump-start the system (a number of highly skilled translators currently not using KudoZ would probably find it too time-consuming to earn their points, just to ask a couple of questions in the future).
Other criteria might be too big a barrier, and/or too laborious to implement and maintain. Or?
[Edited at 2011-01-05 11:40 GMT]
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