| דפים בנושא: < [1 2 3] > | Kudoz and terminology: do ProZ members know what a term is? מפרסם התגובה: Fatima Noronha
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Mario Chavez (X) 
Local time: 11:28
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| Outdated news | Apr 3, 2017 |
Chris S wrote:
Mario Chavez wrote:
Fatima's posting invited 3 pages of answers last night. Today, just one. I couldn't find a single reply or comment that would merit removal by Proz moderators. Oh, maybe except mine, where I gave a suggestion about the future of Kudoz terms section.
Today I learned of the assassination of Miroslava Breach, a journalist for a Northern Mexican newspaper. A note was posted on her car by the killers: For being a loudmouth
What does this gruesome news have to do with censorship? It's part of a continuum. The moment a controlling group is trying to remove your opinion without cause, or for a superficial one, that's the whiff of censorship. Censorship, in its most extreme, means death.
Thanks, Proz, for proving my point: this is not a professional portal.
[Edited at 2017-04-03 07:27 GMT]
[Edited at 2017-04-03 07:31 GMT]
Mario, I hear whispers ProZ was behind Kennedy's assassination too! Get out while you can!!!
No, Chris, no, no, no. Kennedy was killed by a lone gunman. Didn't you see The X Files episode? Shame on you!
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Mario Chavez wrote:
By some translators are trying to rise above the rest I meant this:
Some translators are using anything that seems useful marketing (such as Kudoz points) to become visible to potential clients.
I'm still utterly baffled as to why you seem to think "anything that seems useful marketing" is something inherently evil and wrong. We obviously don't see eye-to-eye, as you say. But we're going off-topic in any case.
| | | | Samuel Murray
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| KudoZ uses "terms" in the general sense | Apr 3, 2017 |
Fatima Noronha wrote:
So, I was expecting to see queries about "terms", aka, terminological units...
Nope. Although translators often work with terms, very few translators actually know how to write terms according to the academic definition of what a "term" is. We are not terminologists. So mostly, translators use the term "term" to mean "a word or phrase in one language that has a translation in another language". The so-called "term bases" that some CAT tools have are often nothing more than simple or complex glossaries. And that is how KudoZ uses the term "term" as well.
[Edited at 2017-04-03 12:12 GMT]
| | | | Jessica Noyes
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| Glossary is important | Apr 3, 2017 |
Many of us have seen sarcastic responses to certain KudoZ postings such as, "Did you try the glossary?" Then these responders post a link to a place in the glossary where the term in question is buried deep within a longish phrase or sentence. Often the term has indeed been thoroughly discussed, with helpful answers, but it is extremely difficult to locate. I wish moderators would clean up the questions as part of their role (I myself have been a moderator) instead of expecting users to rattle t... See more Many of us have seen sarcastic responses to certain KudoZ postings such as, "Did you try the glossary?" Then these responders post a link to a place in the glossary where the term in question is buried deep within a longish phrase or sentence. Often the term has indeed been thoroughly discussed, with helpful answers, but it is extremely difficult to locate. I wish moderators would clean up the questions as part of their role (I myself have been a moderator) instead of expecting users to rattle their cage. If the glossary were easier to use, fewer questions would be posted, as translators would easily find similar questions and answers. ▲ Collapse
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| Kudoz: marketing, help, fun, learning to know colleagues... | Apr 3, 2017 |
I do use Kudoz for marketing as well.
I do not see anything bad in that. Kudoz helps as well Proz to give a ranking. How that ranking would be without Kudoz? An alphabetical one where those whose names start by A are the lucky ones and those whose names start by T never seen by customers?
I'd probably help without points as well though.
Giving points helps maintaining a regular contribution for a site like that one though.
On the other hand I a... See more I do use Kudoz for marketing as well.
I do not see anything bad in that. Kudoz helps as well Proz to give a ranking. How that ranking would be without Kudoz? An alphabetical one where those whose names start by A are the lucky ones and those whose names start by T never seen by customers?
I'd probably help without points as well though.
Giving points helps maintaining a regular contribution for a site like that one though.
On the other hand I also do some project management and use Kudoz to find fellow translators. Same thing when I have too much work. Kudoz allows you to see who is able to do reasonable research, who does not for one reason or another, who has abilities in formulating and so on. It sometimes shows you the caracter of people as well. I know with whom I could work in my fields and language pair and with whom I probably never would. And last but not least Kudoz can be fun.
And just to say for the author of that thread:
I have an academic background as well. 11 years at university to be precise and a degree in linguistics. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Not everything has to go in the glossary | Apr 3, 2017 |
Of course not anything has to go in the glossary.
This is probably a thing some did not understand...
| | | | neilmac
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| Ignorance is bliss | Apr 3, 2017 |
Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer wrote:
In Dutch ⇆ English, "terms" consisting of several terms usually get removed by the mods. Maybe you guys aren't reporting them (enough)?
Michael
PS: although I do agree with you that most translators are in serious need of a bit of terminology training. you'd be surprised how few people actually even use the termbase features in their CAT tools. it's sad really.
[Edited at 2017-04-02 19:28 GMT]
Well, I've been translating successfully for years and I don't really know what a termbase is, nor see the need to use them. If anybody thinks that somehow makes me inferior to someone who DOES know what they are, and how to use them, well, good luck .
Then again, maybe it's something I've been using for ages, but I just didn't know what they were... ?
| | | | Michael Beijer
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| If ignorance means looking something up twice, I think I'll pass. | Apr 3, 2017 |
neilmac wrote:
Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer wrote:
In Dutch ⇆ English, "terms" consisting of several terms usually get removed by the mods. Maybe you guys aren't reporting them (enough)?
Michael
PS: although I do agree with you that most translators are in serious need of a bit of terminology training. you'd be surprised how few people actually even use the termbase features in their CAT tools. it's sad really.
[Edited at 2017-04-02 19:28 GMT]
Well, I've been translating successfully for years and I don't really know what a termbase is, nor see the need to use them. If anybody thinks that somehow makes me inferior to someone who DOES know what they are, and how to use them, well, good luck .
Then again, maybe it's something I've been using for ages, but I just didn't know what they were... ?
Ho ho ho. I think that if you were using one, you'd probably know
The main point for me is: if I go through the trouble of looking a term up, I never want to have to do it again. I therefore make damned certain it gets saved somewhere for future use. My memory is crap, and the number of terms we are expected to "know" (especially if you work in many different fields like I do) is absolutely astronomical. It's also fun being that person everyone emails for term questions. It's sort of grown into a slightly out of hand hobby for me over the years. See e.g.: http://beijer.uk/WORDBOOK.html and http://termcoord.eu/termania/why-is-terminology-your-passion/interview-with-michael-beijer/
Michael
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Mario Freitas
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I'm not going to read all the comments, as I really don't have time.
But this post is quite absurd.
If you reduce KudoZ to single terms only, you'll be reducing it's usefulness by over 50%! You are creating a problem that does not exist with this post.
The KudoZ rules do limit the number of terms/words, but the forum is for terms AND EXPRESSIONS, not only for terms. And it is hence a lot more useful and helpful.
Please don't try to make it a bit worse.
| | | | Michael Beijer
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| clarification | Apr 3, 2017 |
Mario Freitas wrote:
I'm not going to read all the comments, as I really don't have time.
But this post is quite absurd.
If you reduce KudoZ to single terms only, you'll be reducing it's usefulness by over 50%! You are creating a problem that does not exist with this post.
The KudoZ rules do limit the number of terms/words, but the forum is for terms AND EXPRESSIONS, not only for terms. And it is hence a lot more useful and helpful.
Please don't try to make it a bit worse.
Just a quick question. Do you mean:
1. This: http://www.proz.com/ask/ … is for single terms ("concepts", if you will)
and
2. Any old forum (like the one we are discussing this in here) = where you can ask entire sentences?
That is, I don't understand what you mean with "the forum is for terms AND EXPRESSIONS, not only for terms". What "forum" do you mean?
I am very happy people aren't allowed to ask more than single terms in the KudoZ area (i.e. http://www.proz.com/ask/ ). It's the only way to stop the hordes (who obviously have no idea what they are doing, and like to call themselves "translators") from trying to get their (so-called) peers to translate things for them that they don't understand. It's often painfully clear when a person asks a longer phrase that they don't even speak the target or source language, as it often becomes evident that they don't understand the basic grammar and syntax of the src/trgt language.
Michael
| | | | | who relies on the kudoz glossary? | Apr 4, 2017 |
Is there anyone here who relies on the kudoz glossary?
Having seen the conditions in which translators ask and answer questions on Kudoz, the aggression, the point-grabbing fake questions and answers, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. My own research is far more reliable.
I see no point in participating in Kudoz. It's dog-eat-dog out there and I'd have to be at it for months before I got anywhere near the top of the ranking and you barely get acknowledgement for ... See more Is there anyone here who relies on the kudoz glossary?
Having seen the conditions in which translators ask and answer questions on Kudoz, the aggression, the point-grabbing fake questions and answers, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. My own research is far more reliable.
I see no point in participating in Kudoz. It's dog-eat-dog out there and I'd have to be at it for months before I got anywhere near the top of the ranking and you barely get acknowledgement for anything.
I once answered a question posted by a translator who had earned my respect in these fora, which happened to be in one of my speciality fields. She thanked me profusely. It was highly gratifying. But no way would I do it for any Tom Dick or Harry, so I never go there any more. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I wouldn't say rely | Apr 4, 2017 |
Texte Style wrote:
Is there anyone here who relies on the kudoz glossary?
I don't rely on it, no. But I find it an excellent starting point when researching terminology. Since I often do medical reports, a lot of the same terminology comes up again and again: there are a number of excellent contributors to KudoZ in my language pair, and I have been on the site long enough to know whose work I can trust. And I would normally follow up any research on here with my own research to confirm my findings.
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| The same here | Apr 4, 2017 |
Texte Style wrote:
Is there anyone here who relies on the kudoz glossary?
Having seen the conditions in which translators ask and answer questions on Kudoz, the aggression, the point-grabbing fake questions and answers, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. My own research is far more reliable.
I see no point in participating in Kudoz. It's dog-eat-dog out there and I'd have to be at it for months before I got anywhere near the top of the ranking and you barely get acknowledgement for anything.
I once answered a question posted by a translator who had earned my respect in these fora, which happened to be in one of my speciality fields. She thanked me profusely. It was highly gratifying. But no way would I do it for any Tom Dick or Harry, so I never go there any more.
I participated in kudoz activities for 4 or 5 months, earned 52 points, answered to 38 questions, asked 6 questions and received only 1 (one) decent answer, saw absolutely incorrect answers rated as brilliant ones, as well as a lady, who posted tons of questions every day and seemed to work in all fields under the sun ... I quit my participation more than 6 months ago and no existing or potential client has ever showed any interest in my kudoz achievements. 70% of the "glossaries" are of questionable quality and useless for medical or legal translations.
| | | | neilmac
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| Bone of contention | Apr 4, 2017 |
[quote]Maija Cirule wrote:
Texte Style wrote:
I see no point in participating in Kudoz. It's dog-eat-dog out there ...
"But the dogs
Well, they're only dogs
Just wagging their tails
As they watch it end
Oh, the dogs
Well, they're only dogs
And maybe that's why
They're man's best friend"
| | | | Daryo
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| do translators need to know what a "term" is? | Apr 5, 2017 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
Fatima Noronha wrote:
So, I was expecting to see queries about "terms", aka, terminological units...
Nope. Although translators often work with terms, very few translators actually know how to write terms according to the academic definition of what a "term" is. We are not terminologists. So mostly, translators use the term "term" to mean "a word or phrase in one language that has a translation in another language". The so-called "term bases" that some CAT tools have are often nothing more than simple or complex glossaries. And that is how KudoZ uses the term "term" as well. [Edited at 2017-04-03 12:12 GMT]
being a translator without having any grasp of what is a "unit of meaning"/"terminological unit"? Translators using terms related to their own field as they see it fit, without the slightest care in the world about what these terms are supposed to mean when used correctly?
An interesting idea - I guess you could also be a damn good photographer or a painter without having any clues about what are primary colours, or hot and cold colours, and thinking that "dynamic range" and "gamma correction" are no more than insults thrown at you in some exotic language wouldn't be an obstacle?
Too many askers don't seem to know what a "term" is [which incidentally is directly linked to such a secondary task as correctly parsing the sentence], nor understand the importance of the context in which the term is used. Not only it doesn't contribute to building a glossary available for future use by anyone, it doesn't even help the askers themselves - as you can't give a useful answer to a wrongly formulated question!
Yes, all this boring theoretical stuff - who ever needs that?
BTW you don't need a lifetime of theoretical research to understand this:
2.1 - What constitutes "term help" as defined in rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_general/1.1#1.1 ?
KudoZ questions can be used to ask for help on terms or idiomatic expressions.
A group of words (up to approximately 10) should be posted in a single question only when they constitute an unbreakable unit, such as an idiomatic expression (e.g. 'a jack of all trades and master of none') that may be several words long and where omitting any part would not formulate the question correctly.
Askers can also ask for help in understanding the meaning of a sentence, word order, a grammatical issue or the difference between two terms, but this should be done in the corresponding monolingual language pair. Monolingual KudoZ questions can be asked by selecting the same language for both source and target languages.
2.2 - What is the meaning of "one term is allowed per question" in KudoZ rule 2.1?
Unless they share a root or are otherwise related, terms should be posted separately--an asker should not ask how to say "apple" and "banana" in the same question. This means that a question such as "flotsam/jetsam/derelict" in a context of maritime law would be not valid, since the terms are independent and should posted in three separate questions. On the other hand, "the flotsam and jetsam of the inner city" would be OK, as the terms flotsam and jetsam are related in a unit of meaning. Other examples of valid KudoZ questions are: "screen / screening" (they share a root), "Many levels in this game were heavily tuned for smoothness" (terms related as a unit of meaning in a particular context).
Is it asking too much if you expect professional linguist to follow these rules?
[Edited at 2017-04-05 01:30 GMT]
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