| Stron w wątku: < [1 2] | Suggestion: once an answerer has answered, no more possibility to agree/disagree Autor wątku: Viktoria Gimbe
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Erik Freitag 
Niemcy
Local time: 14:45
Członek ProZ.com
od 2006
niderlandzki > niemiecki
+ ...
| Everybody with a substantiated(!) opinion about a question/answer should post an agree/disagree | Nov 5, 2006 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
Why be displeasant? Also, we are not children anymore and I don't think we need to play teacher here...
No, we are not children anymore and should be able to accept criticism without being offended.
Actually, the quality of answers could be judged far better if people weren't so reluctant to disagree.
Everybody with a substantiated(!) opinion about a particular question/answer should post an agree, neutral, or disagree, no matter whether he posted an answer himself, and no matter how many agrees/disagrees have already been expressed before.
My 2 cents,
kind regards,
Erik
[Bearbeitet am 2006-11-05 15:26]
[Bearbeitet am 2006-11-05 15:30]
| | | | RHELLER
USA
Local time: 06:45
francuski > angielski
+ ...
| thanks Charlie! | Nov 5, 2006 |
Thanks, Charlie, for your very clear points. I agree wholeheartedly.
I always try to remind myself that the most important thing in Kudoz is helping the asker. Sometimes that requires taking an unpopular stance.
I would hope that my colleagues would do the same for me and not worry so much about being "PC".
| | | | df49f (X)
Francja
Local time: 14:45
| CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 14:45
francuski > angielski
+ ...
| another vote against the proposal.... | Nov 5, 2006 |
Me too - for the reasons eloquently expressed by earlier contributors
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Angela Dickson (X)
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 13:45
francuski > angielski
+ ...
| one more vote against | Nov 5, 2006 |
As most other people have said - there is no reason to refrain from pointing out an erroneous answer (with explanation), and whether or not the disagreer has posted his/her own answer is irrelevant.
| | | | | Maybe some standard checkboxes?? | Nov 5, 2006 |
As if the ProZ staff didn't have enough to do already. Maybe some standard reasons may help calm the reactionaries out there.
Textklick wrote:
• Not used by target audience: The suggested translation may be understood but is not used by target audience.
• Out of context: The suggested translation may be found in a dico, but is not applicable in the given context.
• Technically wrong: The suggested translation may be found in a dico but is technically wrong
• Innonative - The suggested translation exists but no native speaker has used the suggested translation in this way before.
• Does not exist: The suggested translation does not exist in the target language.
• Unrelated to question: There is no connection between Q&A (think twice before checking this one!)
Modifiers:
+ Sorry.
+ Google doesn't prove a thing
+ is not a compelling reason
+ German uses umlauts and hyphens.
Add to those modifyers (and I'm sure you can all think of a few of your own):
+ The document you are citing is a bad translation (of a worse translation)
+ All those Google hits are Italian, not Spanish
+ No matter how many hits you get, "ground rounds" is not a medical term!
Just be sure to add some smileys and emoticons to let them know not to take it so personally.
Saludos Tribu!
Jason
[Edited at 2006-11-05 22:31]
| | | | Textklick
Local time: 13:45
niemiecki > angielski
+ ...
In Memoriam | I think that was the idea... | Nov 6, 2006 |
[quote]Dr. Jason Faulkner wrote:
As if the ProZ staff didn't have enough to do already. Maybe some standard reasons may help calm the reactionaries out there.
Textklick "wrote"...
Hola Jason!
Could well be.
(BTW: Yes, I did "write" but, as I attempted to make clear, these were not my words, but rather quotes from two members whose experience and well-reasoned contributions to this site I - and I believe others - hold in esteem)
Saludos
Cristobal
[Edited at 2006-11-06 00:06]
| | | | Viktoria Gimbe
Kanada
Local time: 08:45
angielski > francuski
+ ...
NOWY TEMAT | My suggestion was rather for abusive disagrees/neutrals | Nov 6, 2006 |
I am frankly surprised at how everybody so far focuses on freedom of speech and being objective. I guess we are becoming irritable with the developments of the past months (members being banned for talking, people being harassed because of their opinions, can we say merry Xmas or not, etc.)
I did not suggest a new rule or any other means of silencing KudoZ answerers because I take disagrees on my answers personal. I... See more I am frankly surprised at how everybody so far focuses on freedom of speech and being objective. I guess we are becoming irritable with the developments of the past months (members being banned for talking, people being harassed because of their opinions, can we say merry Xmas or not, etc.)
I did not suggest a new rule or any other means of silencing KudoZ answerers because I take disagrees on my answers personal. I am not a points hunter and couldn't care less whether people agree or not with my answers - the only reaction I have when they do disagree is check whether what they propose makes more sense, to see if there is reason to believe I am wrong and then to correct my mistake and try to learn from my error. I answer not-for-points questions as well and my main goal in answering questions - when I can - also is helping someone in whose shoes I will inevitably find myself one day So, we also agree on this.
What I was trying to express is that it is annoying when people abuse of the agree/disagree function. Note that I am not pretending that ALL answerers who disagree with other answerers' answers are mean and ill intentioned - there sometimes are constructive comments in the disagree/neutral boxes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against all forms of disagreeing - just abusive ones. I really find it rude and I am particularly talking about the questions where the person is clearly trying to push other competing answers lower in the peer agreement hierarchy so that theirs gets closer to the top. I am particularly annoyed by answerers who actually disagree with ALL answers after having themselves suggested an answer (maybe point grabbers?), much like an elementary school teacher would. This is really annoying behaviour and should be eradicated, just so that the KudoZ department can finally be a source of creativity instead of a source of frustration. And while several of you have mentioned freedom - which we never have too much of in my opinion - I think freedom also goes both ways. We also should be free of aggressions caused by excessive motivation to grab points and childish behaviour. I don't mind if someone tries to stand out from the crowd - but not by trampling me.
I think there are many disagrees/neutrals that are simply uncalled for and I wanted to know if I was alsone in thinking that.
By the way, I think what several of you have suggested is good - there should be some place on the question page where people can discuss answers. This would be very useful and it could actually be the answer to my question. If it was possible to discuss questions, then answerers would have other ways to highlight their own answers or comment other peoples' answers, rather than redline all other answers.
I hope this time, it's a little more clear...
Quick edit: Upon reading the above posts, I can only feel sad that people seem to get more and more rude in the forum. Some people are very aggressive and at the same time very defensive in their posts and I don't see why - I did not attack anyone. I sure would appreciate people talking as if we were face to face - maybe some of us WILL find themselves face to face with contributors of this forum someday. You never know... and then what?
[Edited at 2006-11-06 00:54] ▲ Collapse
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| Maybe it's a language pair/specialism problem | Nov 6, 2006 |
I also disagree with your suggestion Viktoria, but that's mainly because the situation you describe - where one answerer systematically disagrees with every other answer - doesn't seem to happen in my pair and fields (I don't remember seeing a single occasion). So obviously from my experience your suggestion doesn't seem to be necessary.
Having said that, I can appreciate that the situation you describe would be very irritating, especially if it was a common event - so I can see "wh... See more I also disagree with your suggestion Viktoria, but that's mainly because the situation you describe - where one answerer systematically disagrees with every other answer - doesn't seem to happen in my pair and fields (I don't remember seeing a single occasion). So obviously from my experience your suggestion doesn't seem to be necessary.
Having said that, I can appreciate that the situation you describe would be very irritating, especially if it was a common event - so I can see "where you're coming from".
BTW, I read your first post after you'd edited: perhaps other posters read it before, and so didn't realise you were talking about a blanket "disagree" - which is certainly against the spirit of Kudoz - rather than its proper use.
[Edited at 2006-11-06 10:52]
[Edited at 2006-11-06 10:53] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Textklick
Local time: 13:45
niemiecki > angielski
+ ...
In Memoriam | You've shifted the goalposts! | Nov 6, 2006 |
Marie-Helene Hayles wrote:
BTW, I read your first post after you'd edited: perhaps other posters read it before, and so didn't realise you were talking about a blanket "disagree" - which is certainly against the spirit of Kudoz - rather than its proper use.
[Edited at 2006-11-06 10:52]
[Edited at 2006-11-06 10:53]
Heck, Viktoria! - I read it before it was edited and was guided by the headline. (No, I don't mean that rudely, abrasively, irritably, hastily, defensively or any otherly).
We get E-mail updates of new posts, but not of edits, right??
Never mind, I stand by what I said/quoted.
Chris
[Edited at 2006-11-06 18:11]
| | | | Viktoria Gimbe
Kanada
Local time: 08:45
angielski > francuski
+ ...
NOWY TEMAT | I think here's an example of a not so smart initial post | Nov 6, 2006 |
And maybe here's an example of a case where getting notifications of edited first posts would have been useful.
Feel free to use this example
| | | | NancyLynn
Kanada
Local time: 08:45
Członek ProZ.com
od 2002
francuski > angielski
+ ...
MODERATOR | contact a moderator, that's what we're here for :-) | Nov 6, 2006 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
I am talking about ABUSIVE disagrees/neutrals. Example: answerer, having answered the question, goes on to disagree with ALL other answers, which are not necessarily contradicting his/hers but mere variants of his/her answer. Or people who disagree with other answers clearly to artificially add an agree to their own answer to grab points.
Any and all cases of abuse should be reported to the appropriate moderator, who can then moderate any abusive behaviour on the site.
OT: As for meeting face-to-face one day: we're due to meet soon, you and I, right Viktoria? I love pow-wows
Nancy
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