| דפים בנושא: [1 2] > | Are bilingual kids more open-minded? Probably not
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| | | What is open-mindedness? | Mar 12, 2014 |
I think this article uses "open-minded" in a very narrow sense.
| | | | | Yes--it really depends what you mean by open-minded | Mar 12, 2014 |
I don't know about just bilingual people, but the children exposed to many cultures from early childhood might be quite open-minded--in my experience at least. Children who have grown-up in multilingual environments, like New York, for example are quite open-minded and tolerant. There might be exceptions, of course, as anywhere.
| | | | | Accent is a funny thing | Mar 12, 2014 |
I use my married name, and people sometimes think I am Danish.
I worked for a while in the (Danish) home-care services with eldely people, and over coffee we would chat about the weather, their grandchildren, TV programmes and this and that.
Often, after a while, I would be asked:
'You're not local - do you come from Southern Denmark?' or 'Do you come from Funen? (the two usual guesses about my accent.)
If I slurred over it and did not answer clearly, the co... See more I use my married name, and people sometimes think I am Danish.
I worked for a while in the (Danish) home-care services with eldely people, and over coffee we would chat about the weather, their grandchildren, TV programmes and this and that.
Often, after a while, I would be asked:
'You're not local - do you come from Southern Denmark?' or 'Do you come from Funen? (the two usual guesses about my accent.)
If I slurred over it and did not answer clearly, the conversation went back to the usual topics.
If I told them I grew up in the North of England, the old people would sometimes go silent. One made me laugh:
'Really? And your parents spoke English too? That's not bad for a couple of old people!'
She simply could not imagine not speaking Danish as a first language!
I learned not to say where I was born, if asked, but said my family moved around a lot when I was small.
If I said I was born in India, the conversation ended abruptly. No one could understand a word I said!
This happened more than once, with different people! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Bilingual kids are... bilingual. | Mar 12, 2014 |
That's about it. Everything else is individual.
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Mark
Local time: 16:32
מאיטלקית לאנגלית
| Understanding | Mar 12, 2014 |
If I said I was born in India, the conversation ended abruptly. No one could understand a word I said! You mean that once people knew where you were born they became less capable of understanding you?
I sometimes have the impression that some people – specific people I mean – here in Italy particularly struggle to understand me not so much because of the way I actually speak (though I know I don't speak like a native) but because they're expecting me to make mistakes, and the idea of having to deal with said mistakes agitates them a little.
| | | | | Let's talk about bilingual us | Mar 12, 2014 |
Who cares about bilingual kids, let's talk about bilingual us.
First, about a very annoying perfectly bilingual Dutch kid, who often stays over with our neighbour’s offspring and comes to visit us with them. He’s 15 years old and he corrects every third French sentence I speak, as a service to the audience. I hate him but he is the living proof that I should never try to translate anything into any other language than Dutch (NL-NL). The boy speaks impeccable Dutch and French, an... See more Who cares about bilingual kids, let's talk about bilingual us.
First, about a very annoying perfectly bilingual Dutch kid, who often stays over with our neighbour’s offspring and comes to visit us with them. He’s 15 years old and he corrects every third French sentence I speak, as a service to the audience. I hate him but he is the living proof that I should never try to translate anything into any other language than Dutch (NL-NL). The boy speaks impeccable Dutch and French, and I believe both his parents are teachers, so my help is not needed to create a true interpreter. I’ll get even with him once I’m his Dutch proof-reader…
Where we live all people know we are foreigners. And we can’t pretend otherwise because we’re 2 feet taller. We speak French like the Bourbonnais around us, because we started speaking French over here. Nowadays, the people we know well will just speak French to us. Most people who do not know us very well will talk louder to us and sometimes even slower. People from other French regions often smell a rat too. My favourite question is: “Are you Swiss?”
Of course every new language opens up a new part of your mind.
Cheers,
Gerard ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Completely OT | Mar 12, 2014 |
How do the Dutch learn languages?
I am always impressed.
One of the first Dutch students I ever met was happily interpreting from German into English. Someone else asked her which part of England she came from, and jaws dropped when she simply said ' Utrecht'!
Two delightful artists visit us now and then, and OK, they speak American, with asides in French and German or the latest Danish expression they have picked up.
Last year they brought a very ch... See more How do the Dutch learn languages?
I am always impressed.
One of the first Dutch students I ever met was happily interpreting from German into English. Someone else asked her which part of England she came from, and jaws dropped when she simply said ' Utrecht'!
Two delightful artists visit us now and then, and OK, they speak American, with asides in French and German or the latest Danish expression they have picked up.
Last year they brought a very charming grandson aged 11, I think, whose English was impressive. He joined in the patter in French and German too. No, he was not particularly interested in languages, just to get by, so he could do something more technical later... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Phil Hand 
סין
Local time: 22:32
מסינית לאנגלית
| Different person in each language | Mar 13, 2014 |
Gerard de Noord wrote:
Who cares about bilingual kids, let's talk about bilingual us...
Of course every new language opens up a new part of your mind.
It's quite a standard piece of advice to allow your personality to change when you switch languages, but I've never been able to do it. I think it's retarded my Chinese somewhat, because I've never been willing to just sit down and learn what the Chinese say, I've always wanted to learn what *I* want to say in Chinese.
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Michal Fabian wrote:
Bilingual kids are... bilingual.
Exactly. May I add that bilingual kids are kids, i.e. at times they can be selfish, stubborn, senseless, and picky like every other kid.
| | | | | Define open-mindedness | Mar 13, 2014 |
I would take issue with how "open-mindedness" was proved in the test.
Asking a child who they want to be friends with?
I have met some truly fascinating people from all over the world and have learnt a lot about different cultures as a result. My life partner is from a totally different culture and we've been together over 20 years. I work alongside people from several different countries and even continents in the office I share, and work with people of varying origi... See more I would take issue with how "open-mindedness" was proved in the test.
Asking a child who they want to be friends with?
I have met some truly fascinating people from all over the world and have learnt a lot about different cultures as a result. My life partner is from a totally different culture and we've been together over 20 years. I work alongside people from several different countries and even continents in the office I share, and work with people of varying origins as my clients too.
Regardless of origin, skin colour, sex, sexual orientation or language spoken, or accent used speaking that language, I interact with these people without any problems and enjoy their company, and I'm pretty sure feelings are mutual. Would this not be proof enough that I'm pretty open-minded?
But very few of these people have become friends of mine, even if your definition of "friend" means "someone you added on Facebook".
My definition of a friend is a person I can ring at 3 am to ask a favour and there are precious few of them, most are people I have a lot in common with.
OK so in this article they're talking about children and of course most children go to Mummy if they need something at 3 am, but still it would have to be someone they feel comfortable with. They may be interested in meeting children from other places but that doesn't mean that they'll spontaneously want to be friends with those children. It may need more time for them to start feeling comfortable, and that is only natural, in that your survival instinct (or failing that your parents) tells you not to trust strangers. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Neil Coffey
הממלכה המאוחדת
Local time: 15:32
מצרפתית לאנגלית
+ ...
| Seems to me they mean different things in the two studies... | Mar 13, 2014 |
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
I don't know about just bilingual people, but the children exposed to many cultures from early childhood might be quite open-minded
[Incidentally, just as an initial point to note: the article in question doesn't actually mention the term "open-minded" -- that's apparently an invention of the journalist.]
I think one of the problems is that the main study that what the authors reference as being behind their initial premise of "open-mindedness" (or something like "social flexibility" as they term it) was a study conducted on reactions to francophone/anglophone Canadian speakers where the respondents were asked to judge speakers' character on the basis of clearly-defined stereotypes of people with those accents that existed in the community. In this study, though also with francophone/anglophone Canadians, the children were apparently asked simply "which person would you like to be your friend?" and it's not clear that the particular accents chosen were ones where there might be any pre-defined stereotypes within the community at large (or at least, it's not clear that they were testing whether the children were aware of/judging against particular stereotypes).
Note that the two studies are also half a century apart. It's juuuuust possible that in 50 years, society's attitudes to speakers of the two languages (and whatever the situation was that in the 1960s meant by the age of 5 children had such a strong attitude towards speakers of either language) has changed.
I wonder if what they may be observing is that it is easier to make any judgement in the first place with a native speaker simply because subtler cues about mood etc. can be detected. Though from the way the study is framed, it's really hard to tell what exactly they are detecting and I'm not sure why you'd jump to the conclusion of something like "open-mindedness" (the journalist's term) or "social flexibility" (the authors' term).
[Edited at 2014-03-13 10:53 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-03-13 10:54 GMT]
| | | | | It took me a long time to realise it was subconscious | Mar 13, 2014 |
Mark Dobson wrote: If I said I was born in India, the conversation ended abruptly. No one could understand a word I said! You mean that once people knew where you were born they became less capable of understanding you? I sometimes have the impression that some people – specific people I mean – here in Italy particularly struggle to understand me not so much because of the way I actually speak (though I know I don't speak like a native) but because they're expecting me to make mistakes, and the idea of having to deal with said mistakes agitates them a little.
It took me a long time to realise that this was not actual prejudice, but a subconscious preference for the familiar, I suppose. As revealed by the children in the survey here.
There was a raging debate at the time against 'immigrants', and sometimes people would hastily add that of course, I was not an immigrant, I was one of them! I did not always see eye to eye with the older generation on any kind of foreigner, but there were very few of them in many parts of Denmark before the 1960s.
Although fascinated by accents, I never developed a normal unconscious reaction to them, because I grew up in a multilingual community - and when I was very young in Bombay/Mumbai those who spoke English had a wide variety, from Anglo-Indian to Canadian or American and a lovely Irish brogue... apart from my father's Bristolian and mother's educated Oxford, and later my grandmother's Hyacinth Bouquet from 'Keeping up Appearances' !!! Though my Granny was a totally different person and NEVER pretentious...
When we settled in the north I really envied my younger sisters their beautiful Northumbrian from the village school, but it was too late for me to learn it properly. So I was always a foreigner there... Just where I felt most at home.
Danish was hard work, but somehow I managed to catch the slur and the pithy expressions used by my in-laws, and Andrew Dalby has interesting observations about learning a language when you are in love!
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Tom in London
הממלכה המאוחדת
Local time: 15:32
חבר (2008)
מאיטלקית לאנגלית
When did people stop saying "children" and why?
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Tom in London wrote:
When did people stop saying "children" and why?
Having been a goat farmer myself, I the similarities. I now insist that I be referred to as a buck.
| | | | | Open-mindedness and tolerating accents | Mar 13, 2014 |
From my personal experience, with two trilingual kids, I see open-mindedness and reaction to accents as two separate issues.
While my daughters are extremely non-racist and non-judgmental when in comes to religious or sexual differences, they start twitching when they hear some of our Italian-Canadian friends speak English. I think that when you grow up assimilating accents and sounds with great ease, hearing someone who doesn't "get it" is hard to comprehend (and sometimes irritating - sor... See more From my personal experience, with two trilingual kids, I see open-mindedness and reaction to accents as two separate issues.
While my daughters are extremely non-racist and non-judgmental when in comes to religious or sexual differences, they start twitching when they hear some of our Italian-Canadian friends speak English. I think that when you grow up assimilating accents and sounds with great ease, hearing someone who doesn't "get it" is hard to comprehend (and sometimes irritating - sort of like when math-whizzes can't comprehend how anyone can struggle with algebra). ▲ Collapse
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