Mar 25, 2009 11:15
15 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Italiano term

ceto togato

Da Italiano a Inglese Scienze sociali Storia
Another one about Sicilian history.
The sentence is:
"La relazione ricostruirà il processo di ascesa sociale dei membri di una famiglia proveniente dal ceto togato, i XXXXXX che tra la fine del Quattrocento e i primi decenni del Seicento, figurano tra i protagonisti della scena politica e sociale palermitana".

Discussion

Michael Korovkin Mar 25, 2009:
Simon, toga is a metaphor of nobility and power – no, not either nobility OR power but both together. Even "the upper classes" is, in my carefully considered opinion, a completely wrong answer.Ma "professional" non c'entra proprio niente.Scusa,eh?
simon tanner Mar 25, 2009:
bit late now, seeing as you have closed, but for what it's worth at that point I would have said 'professional classes'. Obviously no point posting it now, though...
Hilary Bruce (asker) Mar 25, 2009:
Yes. It was for privacy reasons. Just because if I put the name of the family in, the document would be easy to trace in internet and I thought it would be best to avoid any complications. However, we're talking about a family that managed to gain the status of nobles thanks to financial fortunes accumulated through commercial or banking activities or the execution of administrative or judicial offices.
simon tanner Mar 25, 2009:
perhaps for reasons of privacy, you don't want to tell us the name of the family, although if it's history, why not? I only ask, because a look at the family history might help understand what kind of 'togato' we're talking about - nobles, judges...

Proposed translations

1 ora
Selected

upper classes

This was my answer which I am posting as suggested..
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "That's great, now I can give you the points. Thanks to all for your much appreciated assistance."
+1
2 min

the noble class

possible?
Peer comment(s):

agree Alice Zuzek : I think so, I was going to suggest upper classes
4 min
neutral AeC2009 : Alice's right: it's more of an upper class, I'll post a ref.
12 min
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26 min

upper class professionals

to be more precise
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1 ora

patrician class

nel 1400 AD un po' più metaforico del 100 AD ma il significato regge.

La nobiltà, secondo me, può essere un'altra cosa: tutti (o quasi tutti) i "togati" furono nobili, ma non tutti i nobili furono "togati" – non so se mi spiego...
Peer comment(s):

neutral AeC2009 : Michael ti sei spiegato, ma credo sia diverso: parte dei togati "divenne "nobile, "dopo" essere stati togati. In questo senso è più vicino Cedric...
2 ore
ecco perchè ho messo "patrician".Very American usage,that:Patrician families(with no trace of nobility in the traditional European sense).Come gli Agnelli in Italia.O Giscad d'Estaing che ha comprato la nobiltà.Scusa se insisto.Upper Class =tutto=niente
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Reference comments

43 min
Reference:

I togati

Altre dettagliate info sui 'togati' che avevano importanti incarichi nel Regno di Sicilia.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree AeC2009 : Thanks..., :-))
2 ore
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18 min
Reference:

ceto togato

http://books.google.com/books?id=eMBgixkiOZwC&pg=PA52&lpg=PA...

Page 52

"la formazione di un ceto sociale intermedio, fra clero, nobiltà e popolo (di città e campagna), che fu detto "ceto togato" e che era composto da medici, avvocati e letterati."

Quella che in seguito chiameremo "alta borghesia"...

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Note added at 3 hrs (2009-03-25 14:54:40 GMT) Post-grading
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@Asker: you're welcome..., :-))
Note from asker:
Thank you for this little gem of info.
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