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Glossary entry

français term or phrase:

Interdiction d\'aliéner et d\'hypothéquer

anglais translation:

Prohibition of alienating and mortgaging

Added to glossary by Chris Hall
Oct 22, 2009 21:00
14 yrs ago
35 viewers *
français term

Interdiction d'aliéner et d'hypothéquer

français vers anglais Droit / Brevets Droit : contrat(s) Property Contract
Dear fellow translators,

This is a title for a sub-section within the contract.

"Interdiction d'aliéner et d'hypothéquer"

My attempt = "Prohibition from alienating and mortgaging"

However, I am not at all satisified with it. As always, your help is greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Chris.
Proposed translations (anglais)
3 prohibition of alienation or mortgate
4 +1 prohibition of alienating or encumbering
4 +1 Disposal and mortgaging (of property)
4 Prohibition from disposing of and encumbering
4 prohibition to dispose of or mortgage(Common Law)/hypothecate (Civil Law)

Discussion

Chris Hall (asker) Oct 23, 2009:
Many thanks to all concerned - my final solution In the end I decided on:

"Prohibition of alienation and mortgaging".

I don't know who to award the points to, so I will leave it up to peer agreement to decide.

Many thanks again to all who contributed.
wfarkas (X) Oct 23, 2009:
To:Philgoddard Mortgage≠ hypothèque revisited There is more to it than meets the eye. I suggest you read up on the differences between a Common Law mortgage and a Civil Law 'hypothèque/hypothec'. The point I am trying to make is that you have to be careful about the term you are selecting, depending on whether your target language text is aimed at a readership in a Common Law jurisdiction or a Civil Law jurisdiction.
rkillings Oct 23, 2009:
Ah, but in plain English … "Alienation
Transferring the ownership of property from one person to another."
-- A Plain English Guide to Legal Terms, by Patrick O'Connor, 2003
Law Society of Ireland, National Adult Literacy Agency, Plain English Campaign
wfarkas (X) Oct 23, 2009:
«aliéner» means «céder par aliénation» = transmission qu’une personne (aliénateur) fait d’une propriété ou d’un droit à titre gratuit (donation, legs) ou onéreux (vente, cession).
Therefore, translating «aliéner» simply by« to transfer» does not render the full spectrum of the meanings of «aliéner», which means to dispose of a property or a right by donation, bequest, sale or assignment (transfer).
rkillings Oct 23, 2009:
But what, exactly, is wrong with alienation and hypothecation -- in a legal document?
You'll find plenty of hits on the Web for "alienation, hypothecation, assignment or transfer" and permutations thereof.
Is the plain English movement in the UK stripping away all these traditional legalisms?<g>
Chris Hall (asker) Oct 22, 2009:
To all concerned... Many thanks so far for your help - much appreciated.

I have to decided on "Transfer and Mortgaging".

However, I am torn between the two ideas of:
"Transfer and Mortgaging of Property" and
" Prohibition of Transfer and Mortgaging".

Any further comments greatly welcomed.
Marco Solinas Oct 22, 2009:
For Phil Phil: I could not agree more. If you read the whole string, you will see that I was suggesting "transfer" as an alternative to "alienate".
philgoddard Oct 22, 2009:
wfarkas: Don't agree with you. An hypothèque is a mortgage in my book.
Marco: I know alienate is a legal term meaning dispose of or transfer, but it's not widely used in this sense any more. You wouldn't say 'I'm going to alienate my house", but you might say "dispose of". More likely, you'd say "sell".
wfarkas (X) Oct 22, 2009:
Mortgage≠ hypothèque
A 'mortgage' is a Common Law concept. A 'hypothec' (= une hypothèque) is a Civil Law concept.
Marco Solinas Oct 22, 2009:
Webster Alienate: 2: to convey or transfer (as property or a right). Source: Merriam Webster Collegiate dictionary, tenth edition.

Aliener: b) Jur (biens, droits etc) to alienate, to transfer. Source: Harrap's Shorter Dictionnaire/Dictionary Anglais-Français/French-English
B D Finch Oct 22, 2009:
Transfer? I believe that alienation is broader than "transfer".
Marco Solinas Oct 22, 2009:
Sounds good You may want to consider "transfering" in place of "alienating"

Proposed translations

1 heure
Selected

prohibition of alienation or mortgate

Careful to use the correct preposition.

"If the alienation or mortgage is achieved, the right inscribed ...... Transfer, Mortgage, Lease, Easement, Contract of Sale,. Encumbrance and Prohibitions. ..."
www.unece.org/hlm/wpla/publications/wpla_inv2_p1.pdf -

Note that there are quite a few ghits for "prohibition of alienation or encumbrance" All of which, including the ostensibly UK one below, are Slovenian, Croatian or Hungarian. There is clearly either a lone translator (or agency) out there at the source of all those references, or the phrase is particularly appropriate to an Eastern European context!

"Any disposition contrary to a prohibition of alienation or encumbrance stipulated by contract shall be null and void provided that ..."
www.biicl.org/files/2350_advposs_sep_ftnsv3.pdf -

"Obligatory rights on real estate are, inter alia, the right to prohibit alienation or encumbrance, the right to lease or rent, a contractual pre-emption ..."
www.iclg.co.uk/index.php?area=4&country... -


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-10-22 22:24:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Just noticed typo! Should, of course, be "mortgage"!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-10-22 22:33:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Supporting ghits do seem to be mostly from countries other than the UK or USA.
e.g. the Philippines, India, S Africa ...
Something went wrong...
2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks B.D. Finch. Your answer was the closest to what I eventually went for. Kind regards, Chris."
1 heure

Prohibition from disposing of and encumbering

Ex.: The preliminary injunction orders that the defendants, XXX, its officers, directors, agents or assigns are each enjoined from selling, offering to sell, transferring, pledging, encumbering or otherwise disposing of ...

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Shareholders Obtain Preliminar...
Something went wrong...
2 heures

prohibition to dispose of or mortgage(Common Law)/hypothecate (Civil Law)

Mortgage≠ hypothèque
A 'mortgage' is a Common Law concept. A 'hypothec' (= une hypothèque) is a Civil Law concept.
Peer comment(s):
neutral B D Finch : Prohibition of disposal, prohibit (the) disposal, prohibit the disposing ... But not "prohibition to dispose"
9 heures
Something went wrong...
+1
2 heures

prohibition of alienating or encumbering

*
Peer comment(s):
agree B D Finch : Prohibition on alienating; prohibition of alienation.
9 heures
Merci Madame Finch pour votre suggestion ...
Something went wrong...
+1
2 heures

Disposal and mortgaging (of property)

You don't need to translate the "prohibition on" if this is the title of an article. An English contract would just say "Disposal and mortgaging" as the title, and then it would go on to say you're not allowed to do this, or only subject to certain conditions.
Note from asker:
Hi Phil, I really like your answer. One question though: what made you go for disposal instead of transfer or alienation?
Peer comment(s):
agree John Detre
31 minutes
neutral B D Finch : I agree with your main point about "prohibition", but "disposal" is simply what one does with one's property, up to and including alienation.
9 heures
Something went wrong...
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