Glossary entry (derived from question below)
German term or phrase:
Haus \"Zu den drei Leiern\"
English translation:
Three Lyres House
Added to glossary by
British Diana
Nov 28, 2010 18:22
13 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term
Germany
enthusiast
Native in: English (Variant: British) 
Works in: German to English, English to German, English, and 1 more.
Zu den drei Leiern
German to English
Art/Literary
History
Historical names for inns or houses in the 18th century
I'm providing English translations of the places associated with J.W. Goethe to be found on the "Großer Vogelschauplan der Reichsstadt Frankfurt am Main,
kolorierter Kupferstich nach Matthäus Merian, Ausgabe von 1761".
It starts with : Großer Hirschgraben: Goethes Elternhaus "Zu den drei Leiern".
My customer does not want the street names translated, so I will be putting "Grosser Hirschgraben: Goethe's parental home.
But what about the name ? Is it "To the Three Lyres"?
All the houses have such names beginning with "zu", e.g- Alterssitz von C.E.Goethe ("Zum goldenen Brunnen"). Is it "To the Golden Well". How does one translated ordinary pub names "Zum Bären"?
kolorierter Kupferstich nach Matthäus Merian, Ausgabe von 1761".
It starts with : Großer Hirschgraben: Goethes Elternhaus "Zu den drei Leiern".
My customer does not want the street names translated, so I will be putting "Grosser Hirschgraben: Goethe's parental home.
But what about the name ? Is it "To the Three Lyres"?
All the houses have such names beginning with "zu", e.g- Alterssitz von C.E.Goethe ("Zum goldenen Brunnen"). Is it "To the Golden Well". How does one translated ordinary pub names "Zum Bären"?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +6 | Zu den drei Leiern [Three Lyres House] |
philgoddard
|
| 4 +4 | At the sign of the Three Lyres |
Lancashireman
|
Proposed translations
+6
1 hr
philgoddard
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
76
Selected
Zu den drei Leiern [Three Lyres House]
Explanation:
It wasn't a pub, it was just a house with a name, so I think "at the sign of" would be misleading. I'd leave it in German with a translation in brackets, as the example below does.
"It was here that Johann Wolfgang Goethe was born "at the stroke of twelve" on August 28, 1749, and it was here that he and his sister Cornelia grew up. The house as it stands today and its name "Zu den drei Leiern" (Three Lyres House) originate from the time of its reconstruction in 1755/56."
It wasn't a pub, it was just a house with a name, so I think "at the sign of" would be misleading. I'd leave it in German with a translation in brackets, as the example below does.
"It was here that Johann Wolfgang Goethe was born "at the stroke of twelve" on August 28, 1749, and it was here that he and his sister Cornelia grew up. The house as it stands today and its name "Zu den drei Leiern" (Three Lyres House) originate from the time of its reconstruction in 1755/56."
Reference:
http://www.goethehaus-frankfurt.de/publikationen/aktuelle-publikationen/encountering-goethe/
Note from asker:
| Thank you, Phil! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
BrigitteHilgner
: In my opinion the best possible solution.
55 mins
|
| agree |
Gabriella Bertelmann
: agree, leave the orig. + parenth.( drei Leiern)
1 hr
|
| agree |
Helen Shiner
: And if it wasn't a pub, then this is the way to go. But again, as above, why are we translating this at all?
4 hrs
|
|
Yes, life's too short to translate things that don't need translating!
|
|
| agree |
Lisa Miles
: yes, leave it in German and offer translation
5 hrs
|
| agree |
lindaellen (X)
11 hrs
|
| agree |
Gertraud K.
: like this way
13 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I would have liked to split the points here, but as our Moderator Tony M. remarked recently,"Points cannot be split on any one question; over a period of time, you can try to make sure you share them out equitably!". Will bear this in mind because Andrew's answer was corrrect for my extra question about pubs. However, this answer was most helpful for the house names in general.
I have got back to my client re what exactly requires translating. Thanks to all!
"
+4
4 mins
Lancashireman
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Related KudoZ points
:
252
At the sign of the Three Lyres
How does one translated ordinary pub names
At the sign of...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 mins (2010-11-28 18:30:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The hostelry did not assume the name of the sign, but was known as 'the inn at the sign of the sun'. There was little point writing on the signs as few people could read.
http://www.pubs.com/main_site/heritage_content.php?id=pub_si...
More info here: http://tinyurl.com/3yldto8
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2010-11-29 02:09:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Advice for exam candidates: "Always answer the question on the examination paper."
I note that two of the ‘agrees’ posted elsewhere advocate leaving the original and offering a translation in parentheses, as if this were somehow an issue of dispute. May I therefore formally offer my own support to this approach?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2010-11-29 12:28:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Musical interlude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxYGeTV6fCw
The House of the Three Lyres
There is a house in Frankfurt
They call the Three Lyres
And it's been the making of many a poet
And Goethe certainly was one
His mother was a vivacious woman
Which made him a jolly chap too
His father was a bourgeois type
Which accounts for Goethe’s serious side
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2010-11-29 12:32:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
TREASURE ISLAND - R L Stevenson
Chapter VIII: AT THE SIGN OF THE "SPYGLASS"
When I had done breakfasting, the squire gave me a note addressed to John Silver...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2010-11-29 13:30:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the compliment, but I now get the sense that you have been browbeaten by the input from all over the world (including Japan!) to accept the web reference provided by Philip. Bear in mind, however, that 'Three Lyres House' will have been submitted by another translator (no more authoritative than anyone here) at some time in the past.
Regarding the 'Xyz House' format, it works very well for the local tax office or the headquarters of a major insurance company. I feel, however, that it is rather impersonal for this context.
Will this question turn out to be yet another example of the goalposts being moved by popular request?
At the sign of...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 mins (2010-11-28 18:30:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The hostelry did not assume the name of the sign, but was known as 'the inn at the sign of the sun'. There was little point writing on the signs as few people could read.
http://www.pubs.com/main_site/heritage_content.php?id=pub_si...
More info here: http://tinyurl.com/3yldto8
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2010-11-29 02:09:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Advice for exam candidates: "Always answer the question on the examination paper."
I note that two of the ‘agrees’ posted elsewhere advocate leaving the original and offering a translation in parentheses, as if this were somehow an issue of dispute. May I therefore formally offer my own support to this approach?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2010-11-29 12:28:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Musical interlude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxYGeTV6fCw
The House of the Three Lyres
There is a house in Frankfurt
They call the Three Lyres
And it's been the making of many a poet
And Goethe certainly was one
His mother was a vivacious woman
Which made him a jolly chap too
His father was a bourgeois type
Which accounts for Goethe’s serious side
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2010-11-29 12:32:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
TREASURE ISLAND - R L Stevenson
Chapter VIII: AT THE SIGN OF THE "SPYGLASS"
When I had done breakfasting, the squire gave me a note addressed to John Silver...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2010-11-29 13:30:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the compliment, but I now get the sense that you have been browbeaten by the input from all over the world (including Japan!) to accept the web reference provided by Philip. Bear in mind, however, that 'Three Lyres House' will have been submitted by another translator (no more authoritative than anyone here) at some time in the past.
Regarding the 'Xyz House' format, it works very well for the local tax office or the headquarters of a major insurance company. I feel, however, that it is rather impersonal for this context.
Will this question turn out to be yet another example of the goalposts being moved by popular request?
Note from asker:
| Thank you, Andrew! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Ingeborg Gowans (X)
: that makes sense here. have a nice Sunday!
38 mins
|
|
Happy S to you too, Inge.
|
|
| agree |
Rebecca Garber
: Concise and fluent. Afternoon, Andrew.
3 hrs
|
|
Evening Rebs. I can feel the initiative slipping away here as endorsers focus on just one half of this conflated Q. But with Di dishing out the points, I am mindful of the words of Fernando Alonso: “Anything can happen.”
|
|
| agree |
Helen Shiner
: As a translation, yes, spot on, but I really don't understand why the name of the house is being translated at all, but that's just me..../Points should be awarded for assistance, whether or not the client ultimately wants these names translated, imo.
5 hrs
|
|
Thanks, and greetings from One Translator House. // If I have understood Di’s closing comment correctly, she may seek to redress the balance on the next Q. This is quite encouraging. Do you think I should keep plugging away?
|
|
| agree |
philgoddard
: Greetings from A House in New Orleans!
19 hrs
|
|
Always the bridesmaid and never the bride...
|
Discussion
In fact only one of my 10 houses was a pub, so shall I call it "At the sign of the Willows Court"? And is Willows in the genitive?
Of course I didn't mean that the house "Zu den drei Leiern" doesn't exist any more, for this IS the Goethehaus or as I am now calling it "Goethe House".
Obviously if this house were to be called "Fausthaus" (as in "Buddenbrookhaus") I wouldn't translate it. But some variation on three Lyres is already common parlance in the EN texts one sees.
I meant the other 10 houses in my list which have something to do with Goethe. Luckily the names are all straightforward ( Zum goldenen Rad, zum goldenen Brunnen, zum goldenen Kopf, zum roten Männchen) with one exception ("Zum Liebeneck") and I reckon I will be able to translate them all right.
But I will now ask my client what is necessary.
O.K., so as Andrew points out, I am I guilty of posing a conflated Q. with two connected parts:
a) how to translate the names of 18th century houses.
b) how to translate the names of 18th century pubs.
My text contains both, as Goethe's parental home is called "Zu den drei Leiern" and his grandparents ran an inn ("Zum Weidenhof").
Helen asks why the names of the house are being translated at all. Well, I'm just translating the text I was given, but presumably it is in case anyone looks at the German key to the map and wonders what it means. In fact I was going to put just e.g. : Goethe's parental home,"Three Lyres House". The German text will be quite near, why should I repeat it? And I don't think any of these places still exist so they won't be present-day landmarks.