Nov 20, 2014 13:29
9 yrs ago
9 viewers *
Spanish term
umbria / solana
Homework / test
Spanish to English
Science
Geography
Primary school materiasl
la ladera que recibe más radiación solar se llama solana y la que recibe menos se llama umbría.
I'm translating primary school geography material and these two terms come up. I am tempted to put "south-facing slope" and "north-facing slope" but I'm not sure it's accurate.
I'm translating primary school geography material and these two terms come up. I am tempted to put "south-facing slope" and "north-facing slope" but I'm not sure it's accurate.
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +1 | faces south / north | Charles Davis |
4 +3 | shady / sunny side | slope | MPGS |
3 +1 | north-facing slope/south-facing slope | Taña Dalglish |
Proposed translations
+1
1 hr
Selected
faces south / north
I think this question is a good illustration of how you have to think about translation functionally, at least in a case like this, rather than just translate the words.
Yes, if you need English words for "solana" and "umbría", you'll have to use "south-facing / north-facing slope" or "sunny / shady slope". We don't have any comparable terms to the Spanish ones.
But if you just replace one with the other, you'll end up with either this:
"The slope that receives more sunlight is called the south-facing slope and the one that receives less is called the north-facing slope."
or else this:
"The slope that receives more sunlight is called the sunny slope and the one that receives less is called the shady slope."
The second of these is frankly a bit ridiculous, isn't it? Talk about stating the obvious...
The first is more promising, but it doesn't really work in that form. It's the wrong way round. It's not a question of being "called" the south-facing slope; it "is" the south-facing slope.
The point is that the function of the Spanish sentence is to teach the children a pair of terms. We don't have such terms, so the point of the sentence is lost. We will have to use it to teach something else. Not that the sunny side is sunny, which is not teaching them anything, but that the sunny side faces south.
So this would work, up to a point:
"The slope that receives more sunlight is the south-facing slope and the one that receives less is the north-facing slope."
All the same, I don't think a teacher would actually say that to the class. I think he/she would say:
"The slope that faces south receives more sunlight, and the slope that faces north receives less."
That, I think, is beginning to be usable in class. It's a bit simple, but OK for young primary.
__________________________
A possible further step with older children might be to adapt this to teach a useful geographical term: aspect. A south-facing slope is said to have a southerly aspect. So you could extend it, by saying something like this:
"If a slope faces south, we say it has a southerly aspect, and if it faces north it has a northerly aspect. A slope with a southerly aspect receives more sunlight and a slope with a northerly aspect receives less."
This is going beyond translation, and is probably not a good idea in an exercise, but if it were a professional assignment I might be tempted to discuss this idea with the client.
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Note added at 1 hr (2014-11-20 14:37:54 GMT)
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All this, of course, is assuming we are in the northern hemisphere. Better make sure the book's not going to be used in Australia :)
Yes, if you need English words for "solana" and "umbría", you'll have to use "south-facing / north-facing slope" or "sunny / shady slope". We don't have any comparable terms to the Spanish ones.
But if you just replace one with the other, you'll end up with either this:
"The slope that receives more sunlight is called the south-facing slope and the one that receives less is called the north-facing slope."
or else this:
"The slope that receives more sunlight is called the sunny slope and the one that receives less is called the shady slope."
The second of these is frankly a bit ridiculous, isn't it? Talk about stating the obvious...
The first is more promising, but it doesn't really work in that form. It's the wrong way round. It's not a question of being "called" the south-facing slope; it "is" the south-facing slope.
The point is that the function of the Spanish sentence is to teach the children a pair of terms. We don't have such terms, so the point of the sentence is lost. We will have to use it to teach something else. Not that the sunny side is sunny, which is not teaching them anything, but that the sunny side faces south.
So this would work, up to a point:
"The slope that receives more sunlight is the south-facing slope and the one that receives less is the north-facing slope."
All the same, I don't think a teacher would actually say that to the class. I think he/she would say:
"The slope that faces south receives more sunlight, and the slope that faces north receives less."
That, I think, is beginning to be usable in class. It's a bit simple, but OK for young primary.
__________________________
A possible further step with older children might be to adapt this to teach a useful geographical term: aspect. A south-facing slope is said to have a southerly aspect. So you could extend it, by saying something like this:
"If a slope faces south, we say it has a southerly aspect, and if it faces north it has a northerly aspect. A slope with a southerly aspect receives more sunlight and a slope with a northerly aspect receives less."
This is going beyond translation, and is probably not a good idea in an exercise, but if it were a professional assignment I might be tempted to discuss this idea with the client.
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Note added at 1 hr (2014-11-20 14:37:54 GMT)
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All this, of course, is assuming we are in the northern hemisphere. Better make sure the book's not going to be used in Australia :)
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Karen Dinicola
: Nicely explained.
11 mins
|
Thanks!
|
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neutral |
Muriel Vasconcellos
: This is adding information that's not in the text - confusing for a textbook, especially for children.
7 hrs
|
You have to. The information in the Sp text is just Sp terminology, which has no Eng equivalent. It must be replaced by something, otherwise you have, in effect: "the slope that receives sunlight is sunny". Are you seriously proposing to say that?
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you, hit the nail on the head in every sense."
+3
46 mins
shady / sunny side | slope
:-)
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Note added at 49 mins (2014-11-20 14:18:43 GMT)
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Modern Planting On A Shady Slope Design Ideas, Pictures ...
www.houzz.com › All Rooms › Modern
551 planting on a shady slope Modern Home Design Photos. Search Tips: To search for all words in exact order, you can use quotes around the term. Example: ...
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Note added at 52 mins (2014-11-20 14:21:57 GMT)
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How to Landscape on a Sunny Slope Location - Home Guides
homeguides.sfgate.com › ... › Home Decorating Styles
A mainly sunny slope needs specific plant species preferring full sunlight and some ... Combining too many plants from varying climates creates a mismatched ...
Sunny Slope Trees
www.sunnyslope.net/
Sunny Slope Trees - Wholesale Tree Nursery in Orange County. Home of Wholesale Trees | Our Wholesale Trees | About OC's Tree Nursery | OC's Tree ...
Tree Nursery Location - OC's Tree Delivery Service - About OC's Tree Nursery
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Note added at 49 mins (2014-11-20 14:18:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Modern Planting On A Shady Slope Design Ideas, Pictures ...
www.houzz.com › All Rooms › Modern
551 planting on a shady slope Modern Home Design Photos. Search Tips: To search for all words in exact order, you can use quotes around the term. Example: ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 52 mins (2014-11-20 14:21:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
How to Landscape on a Sunny Slope Location - Home Guides
homeguides.sfgate.com › ... › Home Decorating Styles
A mainly sunny slope needs specific plant species preferring full sunlight and some ... Combining too many plants from varying climates creates a mismatched ...
Sunny Slope Trees
www.sunnyslope.net/
Sunny Slope Trees - Wholesale Tree Nursery in Orange County. Home of Wholesale Trees | Our Wholesale Trees | About OC's Tree Nursery | OC's Tree ...
Tree Nursery Location - OC's Tree Delivery Service - About OC's Tree Nursery
Peer comment(s):
agree |
bigedsenior
: shady side/ sunny side. This would be appropriate for grade school students.
2 hrs
|
thank you, biged. Best. :-)
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agree |
Muriel Vasconcellos
: Best for primary school - plus, by introducing 'north' and 'south' you would be adding information that isn't in the text. This would be confusing for children.
7 hrs
|
Thank you, Muriel. Best. :-)
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neutral |
Charles Davis
: Even at primary school, telling children that the slope that receives more sunlight is called the sunny slope is really pointless, isn't it? // But words have a context, and if those we choose don't work in the context they're the wrong ones.
7 hrs
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Thx Charles. I'm not telling children anything. Just trying to answer a colleague question about two words. BTW, N/S, depending on context –e.g.: a building orientation, a swimming pool- and other circumstances may not indicate the most shady/sunny side
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agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: this is, literally, what is said after all. I do think south/north-facing is better however
2 days 1 hr
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Thank you, Gallagy. :-)
|
+1
41 mins
north-facing slope/south-facing slope
I think you are correct, and found these reference to support your theory:
Mountain Walking in Southern Catalunya
books.google.com.jm/books?isbn=1849653585
Philip Freakley, Vivien Freakley - 2011 - Sports & Recreation
For the most part it crosses south-facing slopes or solana, which are terraced with dry stone walls and planted with venerable olive trees, although nature is now ...
Almeria Province - Andalucia.com
www.andalucia.com/environment/protect/sierrademaria.htm
Both of these grow on the south-facing rocky limestone slopes of the Sierra ... is the signposted route across the Sierra's south-facing slope (solana, or sunny).
Sendero La Umbría de Maimón is a 12km linear walk along a forestry track from Vélez Blanco to María on the Sierra de María's north-facing slope (umbría means shady). A contrasting walk is the signposted route across the Sierra's ***south-facing slope (solana, or sunny).***
Global Land Use Change: A Perspective from the Columbian ...
http://www.andalucia.com/environment/protect/sierrademaria.h...
Billie Lee Turner, Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Científicas (Spain) - 1995 - Human ecology
Micromigrations involved the winter use of well-drained uplands (cerrillo, altos) and south-facing slopes (solana, adret) followed by summer use of low-lying ...
http://books.google.com.jm/books?id=RMwH3vXgSokC&pg=PA300&lp...
see page 300 i.e. umbria > shady, i.e. north-facing slope
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Note added at 1 hr (2014-11-20 14:29:48 GMT)
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Page 300 of the last link also lists "solano/a" as "sunny" (i.e. south-facing slope) or east wind......
Mountain Walking in Southern Catalunya
books.google.com.jm/books?isbn=1849653585
Philip Freakley, Vivien Freakley - 2011 - Sports & Recreation
For the most part it crosses south-facing slopes or solana, which are terraced with dry stone walls and planted with venerable olive trees, although nature is now ...
Almeria Province - Andalucia.com
www.andalucia.com/environment/protect/sierrademaria.htm
Both of these grow on the south-facing rocky limestone slopes of the Sierra ... is the signposted route across the Sierra's south-facing slope (solana, or sunny).
Sendero La Umbría de Maimón is a 12km linear walk along a forestry track from Vélez Blanco to María on the Sierra de María's north-facing slope (umbría means shady). A contrasting walk is the signposted route across the Sierra's ***south-facing slope (solana, or sunny).***
Global Land Use Change: A Perspective from the Columbian ...
http://www.andalucia.com/environment/protect/sierrademaria.h...
Billie Lee Turner, Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Científicas (Spain) - 1995 - Human ecology
Micromigrations involved the winter use of well-drained uplands (cerrillo, altos) and south-facing slopes (solana, adret) followed by summer use of low-lying ...
http://books.google.com.jm/books?id=RMwH3vXgSokC&pg=PA300&lp...
see page 300 i.e. umbria > shady, i.e. north-facing slope
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2014-11-20 14:29:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Page 300 of the last link also lists "solano/a" as "sunny" (i.e. south-facing slope) or east wind......
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Muriel Vasconcellos
: This is adding information that's not in the text - confusing for a textbook, especially for children.
7 hrs
|
I disagree. Charles has already very eloquently explained it all! If you looked here, you would see exactly what it means: http://books.google.com.jm/books?id=RMwH3vXgSokC&pg=PA300&lp...
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agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: yes, why not... it's facing in the direction of. Coud be SE/SW/S etc
2 days 2 hrs
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Thanks Gallagy. Wheeeeeeew!
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Discussion
:-)
What do "solana" and "umbría" actually mean? Here's the DRAE:
solana; "Sitio o lugar donde el sol da de lleno"
umbría: "Parte de terreno en que casi siempre hace sombra, por estar expuesta al norte."
The associated compass points are directly relevant. This is elementary geography but also very important geography.
On balance, if this sentence is to be translated literally I would favour cutting it completely; it really has no function.
But if your point is that the concept of north and south was too confusing for children in elementary school and only suitable for an adult audience, well, I'm very surprised. It's really very, very basic. A lot of early geography teaching in the US is based on maps. Children are expected to be able to handle concepts like north and south by the 3rd grade. Here are the key points from a K-3 lesson plan:
"Key points
Maps use the directions north, south, east, and west to help locate objects or features.
Many maps have a compass or a small drawing in the legend to help identify the directions north, south, east, and west.
Lesson objective:
Students will learn to use north, south, east, and west to identify relative locations and provide directions."
http://egsc.usgs.gov/isb//pubs/teachers-packets/mapadventure...
I freely admit that what I'm proposing to do is to say something different from what the Spanish says. But you can't say in English what the Spanish says, so it's either that or just cut the sentence completely, and I don't think that's a good idea.
Certainly mentioning north and south is introducing information that is not in the Spanish text at this point. But it's not inherently confusing at all: it's perfectly clear and simple, and much more useful, actually, than what's in the Spanish, which is just a couple of technical terms, whereas teaching the relationship between sunlight and compass direction is teaching an important geographical concept.
The point is that the Spanish is teaching something you can't teach in English, because English doesn't have analogous terms to these. So if you translate it as you're suggesting, you end up with a sentence that doesn't teach anything at all and just sounds ridiculous, because it's a tautology. This is why I say you have to think functionally. I'm sorry you don't seem to have got that point.