Glossary entry

Russian term or phrase:

чернявый

English translation:

dark-looking guy//Hey you darkie (darkey, darky)!

Added to glossary by Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.
Oct 12, 2019 10:16
4 yrs ago
4 viewers *
Russian term

Чернявый

Russian to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature сленг
Чернявый парень маленького роста уверенно говорит свою речь...Эй, ты чернявый!
Change log

Sep 15, 2020 10:37: Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. Created KOG entry

Sep 15, 2020 10:37: Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/1807880">Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.'s</a> old entry - "чернявый"" to ""dark-looking guy//Hey you darkie (darkey, darky)!""

Discussion

Alla_K Oct 17, 2019:
распространенный переводческий прием Turdimurod Rakhmanov, я ведь не знаю, что там по контексту: метка, прозвище или акцент на внешности. Не знаю, сколь важен чернявый персонаж для повествования и есть ли другие персонажи, обозначаемые предложенными метками. Здесь можно только советовать возможный подход, а аскер разберется, какому из них следовать. Использование нейтральной альтернативной метки-обозначения не очень важного песонажа или объекта - распространенный переводческий прием, когда по-другому не получается.
Boris Shapiro Oct 17, 2019:
Indeed. A statement of fact irrelevant to the term in question does sound like a waste of time.
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 17, 2019:
И в дискуссии тоже должен быть смысл, просто так спорит тоже бесссмысленно.
Boris Shapiro Oct 17, 2019:
Whatever made you think this was a nickname to begin with?
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 17, 2019:
Все что-то означает, даже слово имеет смысл! Ник тоже имеет смысл, не просто так называют школьники "Чернявый", или не только для того чтоб обратиться или привлечь внимание!
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 17, 2019:
Alla_K, Как мне кажется здесь по другому не можем описать, у них прозвище, если это прозвище как Каьтя упомянула, происходит от appearance- кого то называют лопоухий? кого то плотный кого то еще что то! https://www.proz.com/kudoz/6720646#14410415
Если это мнение и описание говорящего (кажется не так) то говорящий описывает их по внешнему виду. Еще может быть когда говорящий описывает челевека по внешнему виду когда незнает кто он или как его или ее зовут, но здесь не так. Поэтому, не можем передать как shorty (коротыш), porky (толстяк), stretch (долговязый) и т. п. И вполне возможно дальше есть еще кто то коротыш или толстяк, Как вы думаете?
Alla_K Oct 17, 2019:
интересная дискуссия:) Я солидарна с Борисом Шапиро в том, что если "чернявый" употребляется только как метка (чтобы обозначить персонажа) и никак не влияет на повествование, то в переводе (в прямой речи) лучше использовать другую подходящую по контексту метку: shorty (коротыш), porky (толстяк), stretch (долговязый) и т. п.
Katya Kesten Oct 15, 2019:
Hе получится обратится нейтрально, по-английски, упомянув физический признак. Для того чтобы это правильно сделать придется учесть, как и расы героев так и рассказчика + его тон. Мы три дня обсуждаем эти нюансы с Борисом и Мишей, а в моих ноутс детально расписано, как это можно сделать и на что нужно обратить внимание. А если, например героя по ходу всего сценария (?) рассказчик называет чернявый (ник), то это тоже на всё влияет.
Boris Shapiro Oct 15, 2019:
A schoolboy of different ethnicity would be more likely to use an ethnically-charged pejorative term. Otherwise it would be the kettle calling the pot black - literally.
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 15, 2019:
причем здесь националность, может быть все казахи можеть быть и другие есть, здесь описание человека, person, individual.
Boris Shapiro Oct 15, 2019:
Дык, это ж всё ценная информация. Стало быть, автор реплики - школьник. Тоже казах? Или, возможно, этнический русский? От этого может многое зависеть.
Olesya Poleschuk (asker) Oct 15, 2019:
Борис. неизвестно от кого исходит, кто то из класса. Школьники организовали дебатный клуб.
Boris Shapiro Oct 14, 2019:
Олеся А реплика про погромче исходит от кого? От персонажа какой национальности, культурного уровня и т.д.? Насколько знакомого с "чернявым"?
Olesya Poleschuk (asker) Oct 14, 2019:
Более подробный контекст: Посредине класса установлена кафедра - место для спикера. Чернявый парень маленького роста уверенно говорит свою речь.

ЧЕРНЯВЫЙ
(на казахском)
Я считаю, что высшее образование не для всех. Нужны и технические специалисты и другие.
Эй, чернявый можешь погромче!...
Чернявый отходит от кафедры, на его место встает Марат.
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 14, 2019:
Maybe this is useful for your discussion, At that time he was a comparatively slight, dark haired, swarthy faced man of thirty-four years, having a finely moulded head, erect upon a compact but nervous and active frame, displaying assertion and eagerness, in all his movements and speech. He early found that the educational authorities were yielding to the constant and unvarying cry for reform, change, reconstruction and economy, usually made by persistent theorists or self seekers, to men who are t.
https://www.amazon.ae/Memoriam-Alexander-Stewart-Webb-1835-1...
The first is description, smarthy-face.... the second is address, you may say Hey, smarthy one! Maybe!
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. Oct 13, 2019:
darkey
Noun
(plural darkeys)

(slang, normally considered offensive, ethnic slur) a person with a dark skin, notably of African ancestry. But it can also be used for other people, such as in England for people of Indian/Pakistani ancestry and in the US for people of Hispanic ancestry.
https://www.yourdictionary.com/darkey
Katya Kesten Oct 13, 2019:
cont'd Basically, I don’t really see native English speakers reading something they know is set in a certain region, and suddenly imagining someone from any/ all of the aforementioned regions suddenly popping up in the book like they would someone of African descent, if they came across a variation of “black”. You're saying they'd be reading about Kazakhs (OP's later note) and be thrown off because they'd associate "brown" with one of the groups I mentioned earlier? Or, did I not understand what you were getting at?

I’m also struggling to understand how you’re planning on using swarthy in the second instance—“My swarthy fellow”? Seriously though, you're thinking: "Hey, swarthy boy" or "Hey, swarthy"? I don't want to keep beating a dead horse, but if you could just humor me with the exact wording of what you're proposing is used in both instances (description and address)? I'm genuinely curious. I’ve already discussed all the ideas I have in my notes but for my own peace of mind, I just want to leave the discussion having made sure that I understood the debate correctly.
Katya Kesten Oct 13, 2019:
Misha, glad you could join us! Had to google Pastor Brown—turns out it’s a film I’d neither seen, nor heard of. How was it? :)

My associations lie with South Asians, Southeast Asians, Middle Easterners, Pacific Islanders, Native Americans, Latinos, which is a pretty diverse group of people I grew up around and who would sometimes refer to themselves in this way. It was also used in regards to those that spent a lot of time in the sun (Damn, you're brown, etc) as well as by activists that used "brown people" to refer to those that are neither black nor white. These are just the variations of use that can but don't necessarily have to do with more than complexion since we can't pin "brown" down to a specific enough group of people. Of course, there's also the slur-usage. How is this kind of context different from that of chernyaviy?
The Misha Oct 13, 2019:
Contd. ... the word has in the target language is altogether different, and using it would essentially amount to a mistranslation. That doesn't leave us much choice left. It's either swarthy or, dusky, whoever suggested that first. Dusky to me is really more about the person's general disposition (read "somber") than a description of his or her actual appearance. Hence, swarthy. "English as she is spoke" today simply doesn't leave us much else in the way of choices that wouldn't strike a native as stilted or totally off. Top of the morning to you, ma'am:)
The Misha Oct 13, 2019:
Katya, you forgot Pastor Brown:) Seriously though, I was going to write a much longer post, but Boris here has already given you a run for your money before I could even get down to it. I agree with most of his rationale if not with the specific choice of words, but that, to a large extent, is but a personal preference. There are only two things left I could add:

1. The difference between brown and swarthy is precisely that between korichenyi and chernyavyi or, say, between electric tea kettle and (electric) samovar. The former is generic and the latter specific. By definition, the latter offers richer, more robust description of a special case and thus offers substantially more information and a more nuanced meaning that may be more suitable for a specific, limited purpose.

2. Additionally "brown" isn't good for exactly the same reasons you mentioned yourself, i.e. a specific cultural reference in modern use. Seeing that you, as you say, are from LA, how about a test? What is the first immediate association you have with "brown people"? Obviously not that they are all graduates of Brown University:) That's why using "brown" here would be misleading - for the simple reason that the cultural connotation...
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 13, 2019:
I have lots of work to do, I'll leave it to you, you will discuss with Boris, and I did not suggest an answer, mine is just ref, and confidence level is not 5, Just I expressed my opinion. I'll leave it to you, have a good discussion.
Katya Kesten Oct 13, 2019:
I don't think I ever said that you wrote me anything in a hurry, or that I wrote you anything in a hurry. I'm honestly not sure what you meant...But, in this particular case, you cannot use swarthy as an address--not "swarthy-faced," not "my swarthy-faced"--it just doesn't work. Ok, in another case, I could see some eccentric saying "My swarthy-faced, boy!" (misguided term of endearment, almost tender) or something like that, but it's about style, and what sounds natural to the native ear. Any instance of swarthy doesn't sound natural in this case as part of the address (2nd instance). As for my thoughts on the usage of brown, and it's variants, I don't think I can be any more clear.
Boris Shapiro Oct 13, 2019:
Did you know that you can't use a past participle (like 'swarthy-faced') as a noun - e.g., to address a person? That's called grammar.
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 13, 2019:
Yes, I agree with this, you also read what I wrote in the discussions and I mentioned that even if for the first time I wrote as you say, when I wrote in a hurry, if you read you will realize that, you can use two times, Swarthy, then hey, swarthy-faced, or my swarthy-faced just Hey, brown boy does not convey the meaning in the context, in Russian Эй, ты чернявый! gives impression more than that brown boy?
Katya Kesten Oct 13, 2019:
Turdimurod, thanks for taking a look and for your insights! Yes, swarthy is fine for the first mention, but you can’t use it in an address a la “Hey, swarthy!” or “Hey, swarthy boy!”--it just doesn't work, sound right, and English is not spoken this way. You can use “Hey, brown boy!” and not have it sound like it has to with being called out for your nationality--only for your literal coloring, like “Hey, ginger!” for example. Brown, just like black, can be both derogatory and not based on context. That’s all I was trying to say. And, the reason I don't really support using "Hey, darkie/darky," although unlike swarthy, it sounds fine in an address is because I feel like it's an older term that's a clear insult for a person of African descent.
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 13, 2019:
Katya, I have read quickly what you wrote, if I understand correctly, you expressed your thought about Caucasian or other race's complexion for ex; Slavic.
In this context, it is about individual's complexion, not Caucasian or Slavic.
Regarding, swarthy, I still think it is not wrong. I have to conclude discussion here.
Boris Shapiro Oct 13, 2019:
TWIMC Just to clarify: my primary point of 'concern' here has been the address "Эй, ты". I've no trouble with 'swarthy' (or any other 'bookish-ish' word) being used for the initial author's description. Just that it seems ill fitting for the subsequent *colloquial* derogatory term.
Katya Kesten Oct 13, 2019:
No worries, I'm not saying you've got to read them all!) Just mentioning it because it's relevant to the points you bring up and I don't want to spam this thread by just pasting them here. This whole thing definitely turned into an incredibly time-consuming venture!
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 13, 2019:
Yes, Katya, Now i have looked through what you wrote, some parts, as I have translation to do, I missed that part. Sorry.
Katya Kesten Oct 13, 2019:
Turdimurod, I speak extensively about using swarthy, or a similar variation, in the narrator’s mention versus using something that sounds natural in speech, for the second (dialogue) mention, as well as about the reasons for doing so, in the notes underneath my answer.
Boris Shapiro Oct 13, 2019:
A book lover's side note: it always intrigued me that Bronte described Heathcliff as 'black', and I do not believe she meant 'Afro-Caribbean' at all!
Boris Shapiro Oct 13, 2019:
Sure. Endlessly fascinating. Like the fact that you seem to only now be getting wise to the subject of the applicability of 'black', 'brown', etc. to Caucasian people we're been discussing for the last couple of days.
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 13, 2019:
You can use black in other part of the world, not for Kazakhs! Comprende! All are interesting for you, as always! Когда описывает, всегда используются slightly, черноватого цвета, смуглолицый например, dark looking,
you don't understand anyway.
Boris Shapiro Oct 13, 2019:
You don't think 'black' or 'brown' can "описывать человека", too? That's interesting.
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 13, 2019:
Чернявый в смысле здесь смуглолицый, кожи черноватого цвета, на казахском қараторы - описывает человека, а не black or brown.
I am not so sure but kind of slightly, for ex; brownish or blackish, something close to this.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/swart...
Katya Kesten Oct 13, 2019:
I think we finally understand each other's views--they just differ on some points) Thanks for the discussion and for being "на страже порядка," in terms of good translation, in these various threads. I think it's incredibly important to point out when things are off, archaic, stilted, inappropriate, etc as well as context so that everyone can be aware of the nuances, learn, and remain professional.
Boris Shapiro Oct 13, 2019:
Just read your notes, Katya. Sure, I did not mean to say that you were actually suggesting we use any derivative of 'black' here. It's just that I argue that 'brown' (meaning, in effect, something like 'not White' = 'almost Black') is inseparable from the latter.

Anyways, this has been a most delightful little discussion! Will be seeing you around, I guess?
Katya Kesten Oct 13, 2019:
Personally, I've got zero qualms with swarthy (for the narrator). True, today, it's mostly be used by writers, and people of a higher sociocultural status, and not many at that, but it neither sounds off (like dusky) nor archaic.
Katya Kesten Oct 13, 2019:

Boris, I never suggested cherniy is equivalent to black, which is why I don’t suggest any variations with “black”. As for variants of “brown,” I speak to the relevancy of them not existing, in terms of the source’s local context, in the additional notes I posted under my entry.
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 13, 2019:
Boris, you are not trying, even an answer you could not suggest except for your stylistic pamyatka! But all are here trying to achieve as you said, you are busy with wasting time on trifles. it won't do any good to you. Trust me. Student!
Boris Shapiro Oct 13, 2019:
Dusky 'but it might be understood as offensive as well'.

Ahem. Despite it being written in plain Russian and English, like, a hundred times already, you still don't realise this is precisely what we're trying to achieve here? Duh.

And no - dusky is inherently neither pejorative nor offensive.
Boris Shapiro Oct 13, 2019:
Here's what widely used really looks like: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=black,swarthy,...
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 13, 2019:
Dusky I would use ''dusky" if swarthy is not a good choice, Dusky used in euphemistic or poetic reference to black or other dark-skinned people,
But swarthy also works, it is not archaic, it is widely used.
Dusky could be used here, I think, but it might be understood as offensive as well.
Boris Shapiro Oct 13, 2019:
So, you'd have the character in this novel employ French? Why non, indeed. 'Hey, noiraud! Fetch moi ziz croussant!'

Borrowed, huh? I'll just leave it here, then: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=noiraud, swart...
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 13, 2019:
noiraud Another option:
Noiraud means swarthy
and dark-haired
borrowed from French
Boris Shapiro Oct 13, 2019:
'An equal opportunity slur' - I really like that! I even fancy some 'affirmative slur action' :-)

As to the general applicability of 'darkie' - most dictionaries seem to think otherwise.

Webster's: 'negro'
OED: 'A Black, esp. a Southern U.S. Black'
AHD: 'Used as a disparaging term for a Black person.'

And while is true that Collins (and Collins alone) also cites an alternative Australian English meaning, I bet most Americans and Brits (not to mention Australians) would immediately take it to mean 'their' kind of Black (African or Asian-Pacific, respectively) - exactly the thing I think we'd better avoid. purely for linguistic and philological reasons.
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. Oct 13, 2019:
We are trying to localize чернявый in terms understood by an English reader. The word "darkie," in spite of its historical roots and history in a number of Anglo-Saxon countries, would be understood as a pejorative for someone with darker features, even if applied to someone of Caucasian race. It is a generic term by now - an equal opportunity slur and a pejorative.
(dated slang, offensive, ethnic slur) A person with dark skin.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/darkey#English
Boris Shapiro Oct 13, 2019:
To Katya - contd. On a separate note, 'brown' as a pejorative term relies on its being the middle ground between 'black-skinned' and 'white-skinned' (its a middle member in a three-part lexical opposition black-brown-white). That's why we have a two-part opposition of "черномазый" and, in effect, a null term (because no-one except fringe Neo-Nazi groups here would explicitly self-identify as "белый").

In a society with no mixed-race population (meaning specifically lighter-skinned Negroids) the term 'brown' would be as meaningless as Am. Eng. words questioning a person's race like 'choc ice', etc. The underlying cultural reality is just not there!

As a mental experiment, try imagining anyone in Russia self-identifying as "коричневый"!
Boris Shapiro Oct 13, 2019:
To Katya Regrading 'black vs white' in Russia. You're right, the ethnic tensions do exist. But that doesn't mean Russian "чёрный" is equivalent to Am. Eng. 'black' (or Brit. Eng. 'black' - but that's a subject for another discussion).

A word does not exist in a vacuum. What is does not say (it's linguistic context and place in lexical oppositions) defines its meaning no less than what it does. You know better than I do that 'black' in the US is opposed to both 'white' (as in WASP) and to a long list of racial terms - and later PC euphemisms - it came to replace (including the n-word, which is always there in its linguistic DNA). Moreover, it is seen as a thoroughly 'reclaimed' term, one that can now be freely applied to others without sounding racist (though not, perhaps, permanently so, hence the 1980s push towards 'African-American').

All this 'history' forms part of the word's implicit meaning. Long story short, "чёрный" does not share that history. Thus, Russians saying "чёрный" do not mean the same thing as Americans saying 'black'. That's what I meant by saying that, since there are no 'blacks' in Russia, there can be no 'browns' either.
Boris Shapiro Oct 13, 2019:
Just because the author of the question omitted a parenthesis (see the omission dots), you're thinking this is some moment of critical self-reflection on the part of the character? Think again.

As to 'this is literature' - this is ridiculous. This is colloquial direct speech by a character. Just because it's written in a book doesn't mean he can talk bookish like 'behold' or 'swarthy' (or, indeed, quote Walt Whitman's 'Leaves of Grass').
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 13, 2019:
swarthy https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/swarthy
The Misha is right regarding the usage.
And this is literature, Nowadays, behold is also widely used in literature and religion. Even archaic words can be used.
I still like "My swarthy face" because, Эй, ты чернявый! Russian "YOU" we are changing into English "MY", like playing on words. Russian "YOU" can't be rendered as YOU, because, by saying Эй, ты - the speaker meant himself and in the eyes of the beholder.

But I suggested saying we don't know when the author wrote this.
So, you don't need to use "behold".

Katya Kesten Oct 12, 2019:
The Misha, if you get a chance, could you see the further comments under my post, and please explain to me what's wrong with "brown" other than the NY police reference? Having grown up in So Cal, I don't have this same association at all. Police are cops, coppers, pos, po-pos but definitely not brownies, which is why I'm not sure a significant enough number of English speakers would take it the way you fear.
Katya Kesten Oct 12, 2019:
I didn’t realize the OP was asking about both usage instances. I thought she just needed help with the latter one. It really depends on the narrator’s tone whether we need to use two different words. It could be anything from: “A small-framed, dark-skinned young man…” + “…Hey, brown boy” to “A short swarthy young man…” + “Hey, brown boy!” to literally: "A small-framed /short brown boy" + you guessed it--"Hey, brown boy!". Also, Boris makes some good points (in his 13:57 Russian comment)!
Boris Shapiro Oct 12, 2019:
Still, as a fellow linguist (and political correctness, indeed, be damned), don't you think that, for a native ear, words like 'darkie', 'brown', etc derive their meaning from the existing cultural phenomena? That is, it would be rather absurd to have characters in a Russian novel address each other with words that have an overwhelmingly US (Australian, UK, whatever) 'history' (as in 'medical history') behind them?

This was the rationale for my arguing against using culture-specific slurs derived from skin and/or hair colour.
The Misha Oct 12, 2019:
It is not indeed But I don't begrudge you this belated beschmucktion:)
Boris Shapiro Oct 12, 2019:
Thanks for the correction! I'm sure 'swarthy' is no less legitimate than 'behold'. ;-)
The Misha Oct 12, 2019:
Definitely two separate words Swarthy is very much a legitimate word - as an epithet. Though it is in fact somewhat "literary," it is indeed very much in use. I use it in my own writings all the time:). Darky is the second word, as in "Hey, darky," and political correctness be damned. The natives do in fact realize all that. They just don't bother arguing about it here. "Brown" on the other hand is no good, because on top of it all, it may well be misleading for a lot of us in the US. We call traffic cops that give out parking tickets in NYC "brownies" - because, unlike real cops, they used to wear brown (rather than dark blue) uniforms. And it's definitely not a compliment to call them that. Yet that's what they are called.
Boris Shapiro Oct 12, 2019:
Indeed. Using an adjective as an epithet is just nonsense, and using it as an attribute for an extra noun (**'dark-complexioned person') in a colloquial address is a total non-starter. Pity few non-native speakers realise that.
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. Oct 12, 2019:
The first чернявый functions as an adjective, the second as a noun, hence two words are necessary, IMO.
Boris Shapiro Oct 12, 2019:
:facepalm:
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 12, 2019:
Behold, the swarthy face! We don't know when this poem was written?
Just my intuition says that this belongs to the old times,
and I would say, behold, this swarthy face! or my swarthy face!
And I am sure that hair alone is out of place, Presumably the author meant "skin" or both "skin and hair".
Turdimurod Rakhmanov Oct 12, 2019:
Здесь точно не о волосах, но конечно контекст нужен!
Boris Shapiro Oct 12, 2019:
По-хорошему, тут нужен широкий контекст, потому что нет в английском эквивалента такого полупрезрительного обращения - зацепка шла бы не за цвет волос, а за некий более общий признак. Например, если цвет волос в данном случае - часть национального фенотипа, то за национальность. Что-нибудь типа "чурка". Или конкретный стиль причёски - афро, ёжик, и т.д. Вопрос, повторюсь, тонкий и требует контекста, чтобы не вчитать в текст начисто отсутствующую идею.

Если никаких намёков на другие отличительные особенности "чернявого" нет, я бы предложил, во избежание нелепого своей нейтральностью эпитета "тёмноволосый" (переводя обратно), описать ту же ситуацию по контексту указанием на иной признак. Например, на рост (shorty), болтливость (loudmouth) и т.п.

Proposed translations

+1
1 hr
Selected

dark-looking guy//Hey you darkie (darkey, darky)!

Careful: darkie is a slur!
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/darkie

Older Use: Now Offensive.
a term used to refer to a black person.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/darky

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Note added at 1 day 13 hrs (2019-10-13 23:56:46 GMT)
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darkey
Noun
(plural darkeys)

(slang, normally considered offensive, ethnic slur) a person with a dark skin, notably of African ancestry. But it can also be used for other people, such as in England for people of Indian/Pakistani ancestry and in the US for people of Hispanic ancestry.
https://www.yourdictionary.com/darkey
ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

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Note added at 1 day 13 hrs (2019-10-14 00:04:19 GMT)
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ccccccccccccccccccccc
Darky
Too describe dark skinned people in the Caribbean. Not an insult whatsoever in the caribbean its moslty used towards dark skinned black women as a term of endearment. btw no matter what race anybody in the Caribbean can say it.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=darkies
Peer comment(s):

neutral Boris Shapiro : We're talking Caucasian people here (perhaps even literally from the Caucasus), so 'darkie' is wrong here,
7 mins
Thank you, Boris. (I do not see the Caucasus in the context, so I will trust you on that one.) Darkie is derogatory in any ethnic setting and does not need to be localized to the US or Australia, for example.
agree Turdimurod Rakhmanov : I am sure the author did not mean only "hair" here, dark-looking, dark-complexioned, something in general for the first one. For the second Эй ты чернявый should be different. In Russian "смуглый"
1 day 1 hr
Thank you, Turdimurod.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
3 mins

dark-haired

brunette
Peer comment(s):

neutral Boris Shapiro : И прозвучит это в точности как если бы кто-нибудь крикнул по-русски: "Эй, вы, брюнет!" или "Эй, вы, темноволосый человек!" Стилистика не та.
21 mins
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29 mins

Black-haired or brunet

A person who has black hair is generally called "black-haired".
brunet is:

a person having brown or black hair and often a relatively dark complexion —spelled brunet when used of a boy or man
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19 hrs

dark curly hair

It is not about skin colour here but about his hair, there is no racial connotation whatsoever, trust me. It gives description of his curly black hair, that’s it.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Boris Shapiro : Толковые словари русского языка единогласно дают не только цвет волос, но и смуглый оттенок кожи. Хуже то, что на основную сложность данного случая - как передать "эй, чернявый" - Ваш вариант ответа не даёт.
12 mins
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2 hrs

brown

Normally, you'd refer to complexion using "swarthy" or "tawny," but since the source word is also pejorative, you'd have to use something like: "Hey, brown boy!". It's okay for people to call themselves brown but calling someone else brown can be taken as a racial slur--it's like saying: "Hey, white boy!".

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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-10-12 14:06:11 GMT)
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Reply to Boris Shapiro's comment (couldn't fit the entire thing in the answer box):

I totally know where you’re coming from! But this is a lit. translation, so we can’t just make it PC like we would (and should) when doing marketing localization/transcreation because we don’t believe in using these kinds of pejoratives. For example, it’s generally okay to use “black” (“the black community,” “black families,” even “he’s black”) as long as you aren’t using it as a slur. There are people of color who prefer “black” to “colored people” or “African Americans,” for some it’s a personal preference while others don’t consider themselves to have African heritage. These are my feelings and observations on the matter--I’m originally from LA, but this is also periodically written about: https://fordhamobserver.com/30133/opinions/should-we-say-bla... It’s a delicate and ongoing dialogue, but it’s definitely not cut and dry.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2019-10-12 14:55:54 GMT)
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Also: https://medium.com/@journojoshua/we-should-stop-saying-peopl...

Just continuing the sociocultural dialogue with another article, but I want to make it clear that using "brown boy" will be pejorative, and I'm only suggesting it because it's a literary translation.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-10-12 15:38:09 GMT)
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Boris, please see the notes I added. I couldn't fit the entire reply in to the answer box.

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Note added at 10 hrs (2019-10-12 20:59:27 GMT)
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Boris, I just saw your comments to others regarding the Caucasus, and I think I understand now what you meant. But, “In Russian slang, Peoples of the Caucasus are called black, despite the fact that the Georgian, Dagestani, Chechen etc. population is fair-skinned while the Azeri and Armenian are darker toned; this name calling comes from their relatively darker features. While the word black in itself is not racist, the racist synonym for it is "chernozhopy" (черножо́пый, trans. black arsed)” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Russia.
I grew up in CA, but I am bilingual and bicultural (although English is much stronger in the language pair). I’ve also lived in Moscow for the last six years and have personally seen this happen here to the aforementioned groups of people, as well as to the Romani and even light-skinned Ashkenazi Jews (not just the darker-skinned Sephardic).
Maybe, I still don’t understand exactly what you meant, but the context for "black vs white" exists here. While “brown” isn’t used in this region and translating the OP’s term as “black” would be confusing for English-speakers, “brown” works in a lit. translation into English (we're translating into English, right?) as some East Asians, Southeast Asians, as well as Middle Easterners and Hispanics, etc (at least in the States) do sometimes refer to themselves as “brown,” and are also sometimes referred to this way in a derogatory manner. Please clarify if I still don't understand what you meant.

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Note added at 11 hrs (2019-10-12 22:07:03 GMT)
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I didn’t realize the OP was asking about both usage instances. I thought she just needed help with the latter one. Whether two different words need to be used depends on the narrator’s tone, so more context is needed! It could be anything from: “A small-framed, dark-skinned young man…” + “…Hey, brown boy” to “A short swarthy young man…” + “Hey, brown boy!” to literally: "A small-framed /short brown boy" + "Hey, brown boy!".

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Note added at 1 day 2 hrs (2019-10-13 12:43:50 GMT)
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Olesya, it boils down to the context, time-period, medium (prose, film, etc) and artistic merit of what you’re translating. Does the narrator mean to demean the guy when he calls him chernyaviy? Or, is he solely describing him this way based on his features, using a common word that no one thinks twice about? If this is older prose, I feel like it’s the latter. If that's the case, I would choose a neutral-sounding variation for the first instance because using brown pejoratively would be confusing to many in the modern English speaking PC world; an unnecessary distraction, raising questions about the narrator/author, rather than keeping them engaged with the storyline.

As for the second instance, you need something that sounds natural in speech. So, I would use “brown boy” or it’s older equivalent—“brownie,” which apparently was a thing in the US in the 1940s-1950s (Green, Jonathon (2005). Cassell's Dictionary of Slang, p188) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs#cite_note... I haven’t quite heard “brownie” used in modern lexicon, but it sounds natural in speech, and if it’s something older you’re working on, and you need to preserve the literary merit of the piece, you might want to use something old-school. The Misha mentioned that cops in NY are sometimes referred to as brownies, maybe other natives/those living in primarily English speaking countries can weigh in on this. Personally, I don’t think this is critical because the number of English speakers who have this association may be negligible, plus the narrator’s description will point the audience to physical features, rather than profession.

PS Although, I appreciate the points Boris has raised, I think the fact that I didn't understand at first what he was talking about is a clue as to whether not having a context for something between black and white locally is relevant for a lit. translation into English. I wouldn't worry about using something associated with brown because although this sounds off when translated into Russian, you're translating into English where the context for being oppressed for being something between black and white does exist. This will make perfect sense to English-speakers and won't distract them from the storyline. Boris did propose some interesting alternatives in his Russian comment in the Discussion entry chat-box, so you might want to check them out. In order to use them, though, you would need additional context. Is the reader/audience familiar enough with the characters in order to recognize them, if you were to use an adjective that has nothing to do with color, but with their features, and/or personality?

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Note added at 1 day 2 hrs (2019-10-13 12:58:27 GMT)
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PPS Using something associated with "black" would illicit the wrong [racial] associations in English speakers due to local socio-cultural factors, which is why I don't suggest it, even though "browns" don't exist lexically in the region your piece is about.

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Note added at 1 day 2 hrs (2019-10-13 12:58:56 GMT)
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PPS Using something associated with "black" would illicit the wrong [racial] associations in English speakers due to local socio-cultural factors, which is why I don't suggest it, even though "browns" don't exist lexically in the region your piece is about.

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Note added at 1 day 4 hrs (2019-10-13 14:46:47 GMT)
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On “swarthy” as part of first usage of chernyaviy (narrator’s description) and it’s relevance to the source's context:

“This race of southern Slavs presents some peculiarities when compared with the recognized Slav type. They are dark-eyed and swarthy skinned (very different in complexion from the northern Slavs).”

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Popular_Science_Monthly/Volum...

"(...) There exist two kinds of Slavic people. First kind are people of swarthy complexion and dark hair. They live near the coast of the [Mediterranean] Sea. The other kind are fair people, who live inland. (…)"

"(...) What is peculiar [when it comes to Slavs], most of Bojema people [Bohemians / Czechs] are of swarthy complexion and dark hair, while fair colors are rare among them [compared to frequencies among other West and East Slavs]. (...)"

https://historum.com/threads/physical-appearance-of-early-me...
Note from asker:
The fragment of this story is about the Kazakhs
Peer comment(s):

neutral Boris Shapiro : Whether it is PC or otherwise wasn't on my mind at all! It's just that it's a wrong term to describe Russians, since it comes from the 'white/black' semantic spectrum alien to the cultural context in question. Like I said, no 'blacks' means no 'browns'.
41 mins
I totally know where you’re coming from! But this is a lit. translation, so we can’t just make it PC like we would (and should) when doing marketing localization/transcreation because we don’t believe in using these kinds of pejoratives.
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Reference comments

10 mins
Reference:

swarthy / dark-complexioned

Hey, you- swarthy!

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Note added at 11 mins (2019-10-12 10:27:16 GMT)
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https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/dark-co...
Peer comments on this reference comment:

disagree Boris Shapiro : Yeah, sure, Collins to the rescue. Now imagine anyone crying: 'Hey you, the dark-complexioned individual!'. And, just so you know, no-one's been using 'swarthy' for, like, 100 years. The word's as archaic as the dictionary you must've pulled it from.
11 mins
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1 hr
Reference:

"чернявый" - стилистическая памятка

I
1. разг.-сниж. Тот, кто имеет смуглое лицо и волосы чёрного или тёмного цвета.
2. Употребляется как порицающее или бранное слово. (Ефремова)
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.
9 mins
agree Katya Kesten
1 hr
agree P.L.F. Persio
2 hrs
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