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This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
Mar 12, 2021 13:41
3 yrs ago
38 viewers *
French term

gestion d’affaires imparfaite ou intéressée

French to English Law/Patents Law: Patents, Trademarks, Copyright Trademark protection law (Switzerland)
Les conditions de l’action de remise de gain pour une gestion d’affaires imparfaite ou intéressée sont au nombre de 5 à savoir :

1) une atteinte aux droits d’autrui, 2) son caractère intéressé, 3) la réalisation d’un gain, 4) un lien de causalité entre l’atteinte et le gain et 5) la mauvaise foi du gérant

This concerns a head of claim for remission of profits in a trademark infringement case.

My attempt: "misleading or self-serving business practices"

I cannot find a similar expression so this is more an attempt at translation than an equivalent English legal expression. Any better suggestion?
Target language: European English
Proposed translations (English)
4 disloyal management or self-dealing
4 -1 off track or self-serving business management
3 misfeasant mis- or self-serving management
3 underhand dealings for own vested interests
3 ineffective or unprofessional business management
4 -1 agency without authority in his/her/its own interests
4 -3 disloyal unauthorised management
References
Reference only
gestion d'affaires intéressée, gestion d'affaires "non désintéressée"

Discussion

AllegroTrans (asker) Mar 21, 2021:
Conor: "Agency" recurs in these texts and sources Yes it does, but in English terms we would only call this a "quasi-agency". In other words, the counterfeiter has no authorised position as agent, but has unlawfully arrogated that status to itself. Nor is it "managing" any business for the righful trademark proprietor.
I considered all this and came to the conclusion that "gestion d'affaires" in my term seems to have the broader meaning of "conducting business" - referring to "agency" in an English translation (without an explanation of or reference to quas-agency) or even "management" would just sound confusing.
Conor McAuley Mar 21, 2021:
Further to post yesterday -- Swiss Civil Code etc. "Agency" recurs in these texts and sources -- the same word every time.

FR
"Art. 28
[...]
3. Sont réservées les actions en dommages-intérêts et en réparation du
tort moral, ainsi que la remise du gain selon les dispositions sur la ***gestion d’affaires***.

EN
"3. Claims for damages and satisfaction and for handing over profits in
accordance with the provisions governing ***agency*** without authority
are reserved."

FR
"Art. 753
1. L’usufruitier qui a fait des impenses ou de nouveaux ouvrages sans y
être obligé peut réclamer une indemnité à la cessation de l’usufruit,
selon les règles de la ***gestion d’affaires***."

EN
"1. If the usufructuary has of his or her own free will incurred costs or
made improvements, on return of the object he or she may request
compensation in accordance with the provisions governing ***agency***
without authority."

FHS Bridge: "gestion d'affaires" = agency

"Gestion d'affaires" -- very common term in French Civil Law.


Conclusions:
1) "Gestion d'affaires" is a very specific term with a very specific meaning.
2) That meaning, see EN version of the Swiss Civil Code (reminder: context = Switzerland) and Bridge, is agency.
Conor McAuley Mar 20, 2021:
I should have provided details of this part of my discussion of the question:

"So far so good. The official English translation of the SCC confirms "agency without authority".
FR : https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/24/233_245_233/fr
EN: https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/24/233_245_233/en"

Unfortunately the website in question is down at the moment, so I can't quote the (presumably) legally-binding term-for-term equivalence that I outlined in my answer.
The principle being that if you have a 100%-reliable and authoritative source as regards wording, you should use it.

The same principle "sort of" (sorry!) applied when the Legifrance English translations were available.

But the English translation of the Swiss Civil Code appears to be legally binding, on a par with the Italian, German, etc. versions of it.
Lisa Rosengard Mar 16, 2021:
I believe that, legally, the one who has served on behalf of another without the other person's instruction or agreement may only claim for the expenses incurred in the action as a reimbursement.
The question's issue of 'gestion d;affaires imparfaite ou intéréssée' could be any type of imperfect or flawed business management or organization, but it looks like Allegro prefers conduct or misconduct of business dealings or affairs instead of management in the setting.
The question raises the issue of an infringement on another person's rights or entitlements, which might imply unlawful dealings connected with a power of attorney during another's absence, (une atteinte aux droits d'autrui et la réalisation d'un gain), in connection with profits or an award.
In short, it looks like the criticisms are of someone's egotistic self interests, whilst on the contrary, the event of 'negotiorum gestio' implies altruism or a deed of kindness.
Lisa Rosengard Mar 16, 2021:
It's a very interesting discussion. I've learned that malfeasance is a willful and intentional action which causes harm to another, while misfeasance is generally an unintentional breach of contract.
I believe that something which is self-serving is egotistic, focusing solely on self-interests, while altruism, which implies kindness, in contrast, is impossible in the same setting.
There are references to 'negotiorum gestio', which is Latin for 'management of business'. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negotiorum_gestio)
The setting involves a person (gestor) who commits himself or herself to doing a deed on behalf of another, in this case, more than an absent neighbour, it's a senior or dominant person (dominus negotii) or master (manager). The person, worker (gestor) who fulfills the deed on behalf of another does so without the other, dominant person's instruction or consent. The person (worker or gestor) has acted on the own initiative. The issue is that he or she is most likely going to look for money or something in return, and without prior consent or instruction from the dominant person or management, this can cause problems.
AllegroTrans (asker) Mar 15, 2021:
My decison in the end was "malfeasant or self-serving business practices"
Malfeasant v misfeasant: In contrast to misfeasance, which is generally an unintentional breach of contract, malfeasance refers to a willful and intentional action that injures a party - certainly rhe case here
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/misfeasance.asp
Self-serving: seems to be the best opposite to altruistic (part of my text says altruism is ruled out)
Business practices: seems more descritive of what is going on than "business management" - fact is, it's criminal business practice
Negotiorum gestio: decided not to us this Latin term, it doesn't appear in my text anyway

Lots of really helpful discussion so many thanks to everyone.
AllegroTrans (asker) Mar 15, 2021:
@ Eliza Yes, Swiss Federal Unfair Competiton Act and Swiss Federal Protection of Trademarks Act and most definitely this is about trademark infringement and passing-off. My take on "gestion d'affaires" isn't "management of business" but more like "conduct of business" - i.e. conducting (unlawfully) another person's business
Eliza Hall Mar 14, 2021:
@AllegroTrans: any code cited? I have trouble seeing how the law on "gestion d'affaires d'autrui" (g d'aff d'au) could relate to trademark infringement. The examples of g. d'aff d'au. are things like stepping in to take care of your neighbor's house when they're not around or are too old to do it... if you do that, you've got to do it in their best interest rather than your own.

AllegroTrans, to narrow this down, does the text you're translating cite to any particular code sections?
Conor McAuley Mar 14, 2021:
Explain then, the use of the term "gestion d'affaires" in the Swiss Civil Code, clearly in the sense of negotiorum gestio.

Explain this, also:

https://www.loisuisse.ch/fra/sr/220/220_039.htm

"Loi fédérale complétant le Code civil suisse
Deuxième partie
Des diverses espèces de contrats
Titre quatorzième
De la gestion d’affaires"

WE HAVE THE STANDARD SCENARIO:

"Art. 419
A. Droits et obligations du gérant
I. Exécution de l’affaire
Celui qui, sans mandat, gère l’affaire d’autrui, est tenu de la gérer conformément aux intérêts et aux intentions présumables du maître."

AND THEN THE "GOES ROGUE" SCENARIO:

"Art. 423
II. Affaire entreprise dans l’intérêt du gérant
1 Lorsque la gestion n’a pas été entreprise dans l’intérêt du maître, celui-ci n’en a pas moins le droit de s’approprier les profits qui en résultent."

Is the Swiss Civil Code authoritative enough a source for you?
Daryo Mar 14, 2021:
For your information the concept of "negotiorum gestio" is a basic concept that exists in ALL countries applying "Continental law" (check for yourself the list), whatever are the local translations used and it's EXACTLY the same concept in all of this countries.

If you think you can learn the logic of the continental law from English dictionaries, you are an optimist ...

you have "established" nothing - what you have in effect "established" when applied to this text would be the equivalent of "a burglar acting to protect the interests of the owner of the house" - certainly must makes perfect sense if dictionaries lead you that way?

as for "The Merriam Webster entry for negotiorum gestio (and other sources, if I recall correctly) does not mention benevolence" - for those who learned about that concept from some slightly more reliable / authoritative sources they don't need The Merriam Webster to tell them that.

You could also take a look at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negotiorum_gestio

freely available to any persisting Doubting Thomas.
Conor McAuley Mar 14, 2021:
Daryo, your references to Slovenia and France are inapplicable, as the question is about Switzerland.

https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/24/233_245_233/fr (click "2021" on left for updated version)
"Art. 28a26
1 Le demandeur peut requérir le juge:

1.
d’interdire une atteinte illicite, si elle est imminente;
2.
de la faire cesser, si elle dure encore;
3.
d’en constater le caractère illicite, si le trouble qu’elle a créé sub­siste.
2 Il peut en particulier demander qu’une rectification ou que le ju­ge­ment soit communiqué à des tiers ou publié.

3 Sont réservées les actions en dommages-intérêts et en réparation du tort moral, ainsi que la remise du gain selon les dispositions sur la ***ges­tion d’affaires***."

I have established that gestion d'affaires translates to negotiorum gestio.

Daryo's argument amounts to saying that if a charity does something bad, you have to stop calling it a charity.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/legal/negotiorum gestio
No mention of "for the benefit" here.

Lastly:

"story", really? -- no, this is real life.
Daryo Mar 14, 2021:
As explained also here Negotiorum gestio

Negotiorum gestio ([ni-ˌgō-shē-ˈȯr-əm-ˈjes-chē-ō], Latin for "management of business") is a form of spontaneous voluntary agency in which an intervenor or intermeddler, the gestor, acts on behalf and for the benefit of a principal (dominus negotii), but without the latter's prior consent. The gestor is only entitled to reimbursement for expenses and not to remuneration, the underlying principle being that negotiorum gestio is intended as an act of generosity and friendship and not to allow the gestor to profit from his intermeddling. This form of intervention is classified as a quasi-contract and found in civil-law jurisdictions and in mixed systems (e.g. Louisiana, Scots, South African, and Philippine laws).

Abusing / misappropriating s.o. else's trademark might well be seen as a kind of "managing the business of a third party without its knowledge or prior consent" but it's nowhere near the concept of "Negotiorum gestio"

"negotiorum gestio" is about as much applicable in this ST it would be to a a burglar "managing" your house in your absence!!

Despite some similarities, there is not a trace of "negotiorum gestio" in this ST.
Daryo Mar 14, 2021:
Not a hint of "negotiorum gestio" in this story the concept of "negotiorum gestio" i.e. "acting on behalf of the owner without owners' knowledge" as in

"poslovodstvo brez naročila | Slovenian to English"

Незвано вршење туђих послова или пословодство без налога (negotiorum gestio)
https://sr.wikipedia.org/sr-ec/Nezvano_vršenje_tuđih_poslova

La gestion d'affaires (ou negotiorum gestio) est le premier des trois quasi-contrats régis par le Code civil français, le second étant le paiement de l'indu et le troisième, consacré par la réforme du droit des contrats de 2016, est l'enrichissement sans cause. Le quasi-contrat est un fait juridique, plus précisément un fait purement volontaire, selon l'expression légale1.

En l'espèce, ce fait qui va entraîner la création d'obligations, est celui de s'immiscer spontanément et opportunément dans les affaires d'une autre personne, dans une vue désintéressée, pour lui rendre service.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestion_d'affaires_en_droit_ci...

The key ingredient is missing in this case "dans une vue désintéressée, pour lui rendre service" - hardly applicable to someone abusing s.o. else's intellectual property?
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Mar 13, 2021:
Changed my mind; here's why! "Misleading" and "mishandling" go beyond "imparfait". The latter is neutral, without any suggestion of intention. The first two lean a teensy weensy bit towards the possibility that just maybe... the "imperfect" management was in fact intentional. It may have been but that cannot be read into the term "imparfait".
IMHO, "mismanagement" meets that register in English.
Conor McAuley Mar 12, 2021:
I've made the case for an English translation, for a Latin one plus "in own interests", and for a combination.

If you have leeway for a translator's note in your document, you could put the Latin there, in the body of the text or as a footnote.

It's your call. Whatever gets the job done.

Que la nuit te porte conseil !
AllegroTrans (asker) Mar 12, 2021:
Have also seen... "illegitimate negotiorum gestio" but it only seems to be an explanatory construct. I don't really like the idea of using a Latin term where one doesn't appear in the source text. I'm now beginning to think that "gestion d’affaires imparfaite ou intéressée" isn't a legal term as such, more an explanation. So maybe I have licence to make up an explanatory term in English? I'm edging toward "self-serving unauthorised arrogation of agency" or something similar.
Keep up the discussion guys...
Conor McAuley Mar 12, 2021:
Buried in Tome 17 of my answer... "negotiorum gestio in his/her/its own interests"

(Negotiorum gestio covers only the agency without authority bits.)
AllegroTrans (asker) Mar 12, 2021:
Some interesting discussion here "Negotiorum gestio" looks potentially a propos, but the term is not used anywhere in my text. On looking up English and US commentaries on this, the idea seems to be that the term is used where altruism is intended (e.g. someone is away on holiday when the roof of their house is blown in; a kindly neighbour, with no ostensible authority, breaks into the house and makes temporary repairs), rather than dishonesty. If I'm right in thinking that's always the case, then the Latin term backfires here.

Also, in several Eurpopean languages the eqivalent term translates to "agency of necessity" which can't possibly be the case with deliberate trademark infringement.
Edier Quintana Mar 12, 2021:
imperfect or biased business management
AllegroTrans (asker) Mar 12, 2021:
Many thanks Nikki Indeed, several other words such as "intermeddling" come to mind, but in the end I am looking for the full term in English as used in practice.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Mar 12, 2021:
Rather than "misleading", howzabout "mishandling"? The term "mishandling" comes to mind for this one. Not quite sure how to phrase it though.

Proposed translations

1 hr

disloyal management or self-dealing

Imparfaite = disloyal: "La gestion d'affaires est qualifiée d'imparfaite lorsqu'elle est entreprise non dans l'intérêt du maître, mais dans celui du gérant ou d'un tiers."

https://www.bger.ch/ext/eurospider/live/fr/php/aza/http/inde...

Intéressée = self-interested, but we refer to this in EN legalese not as "self-interested management" but simply as "self-dealing."
Example 1: https://findhoalaw.com/corporations-code-section-5233-self-d...
Example 2: https://ffslaw.com/articles/have-directors-and-officers-enga...
Note from asker:
Thanks! FHS Bridhe has "dishonest management" for "gestion deloyale"; " intéressée" in the term agrees with "gestion", however I see you have changed the construction somewhat
All the definitions and explanations of "self-dealing" that I can find refer to trustees, fiduciaries and other persons holding a position of trust. In my case though this is about usurpation of trademarks and passing-off (no relationship between the parties involved) so I'm not sure that your term works.
I think this implies much more tham mere "disloyalty" - we are talking of outright tratrademark infringement - note the Fr. word "déloyale" has several "shades" of meaning, ranging from unfair to wanton
Peer comment(s):
neutral Daryo : the element "unauthorised" should be added - "disloyal unauthorised management" would better reflect the ST.
1 day 23 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
4 hrs

off track or self-serving business management

Managers are agents reporting to their principal about whether or not the business they are managing reaches the targets set by their principal.

In my translation, off-track means that the agent's business is not on target. On the contrary, the agent is pursuing a target of his/her own: his/her management is self-serving.



Note from asker:
Thanks but "off track" doesn't sound like a legal expression and my text has nothing remotely to do with targets
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : that would be fine - in some other context.
1 day 19 hrs
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

misfeasant mis- or self-serving management

If this is about claiming an account - rather than a remission - of profits, then we could be into mismanagement and misappropriation c.f defalcations in US fed. law

Note on a related theme: Geschäftsführung ohne Auftrag > 'conduct of business without a mandate' is an 'agency of necessity'.

Otherwise, self-dealing in E+W law - such as renewing a client's market trading lease in the lawyer's own name - is not the same as self-interest.

Obiter, quasi-contracts suggest we are moving into the realm of Anglo-Am. tort and contract now called 'the law of restitution'.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 heures (2021-03-12 20:31:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I repeated the mis- after misfeasant only for stylistic balance and tie-up with the management.

Mindful of misfeasance proceedings in E+W tort, *Equity* and crime by a company liquidator against the ex-officers and directors, I had actually been inclined to patch together mis-, mal- and non-feasance with something like *misfeasance and unduly self-serving malfeasance* cf. undue influence + undue preference in bankruptcy.

'Trustee *malfeasance* refers to any type of negligent, *self-serving*, erroneous, or retaliatory conduct committed by the trustee of a trust resulting in harm to trust assets or beneficiaries.' https://rmolawyers.com/trustee-malfeasance-guide/

Funnily enough, this is a US-Am weblink > beware of mal- vs. misfeasance differences Transatlantically, albeit slight ones in 'corporate practis/se' < but I am sure all categories of 'feasance' > Norman FR ce faisant would be understood in 'offshore Euro-English' by accountants, insolvency practitioners, lawyers and company court judges who, except in Scotland with its Roman civil law, would be baffled by the Latin expression of negotiorum gestio

he Latin expr
Example sentence:

Account to be taken from misfeasant directors (Re Shahi Tandoori Restaurant)

The self-serving management hypothesis : Some evidence.

Reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defalcation

http://www.persee.fr/doc/juro_0990-1027_1999_num_12_2_2524

Note from asker:
This seems to be on the right lines, thanks!
Thinking about it "self-serving" management almost sounds like the norm. Maybe "excessively self-serving management" would be more tortious?
Something went wrong...
8 hrs

underhand dealings for own vested interests

After reading references kindly provided by others, this is what came to (my) mind.
Note from asker:
Right lines for sure, thanks
Something went wrong...
1 day 10 hrs

ineffective or unprofessional business management

I read the above information and understood the following:
'Conditions of action on the delivery of profits or earnings for an ineffective or unprofessional business management due to inappropriate practice are implied or suggested. It implies that there's been an infringement on other people's entitlements concerning a type of profit gain, along with a casual connection between the infringement and the profit due to a manager's misconduct or unethical practice.'

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Note added at 1 day 11 hrs (2021-03-14 01:17:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/legally sp...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 11 hrs (2021-03-14 01:24:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"A legal definition of context is the language that precedes and follows a series of words, such as a particular sentence or clause. The context of a legal document is often scrutinized to shed light upon the intent of an ambiguous or obscure sentence or clause so that it may be interpreted as its drafter intended. (West Encyclopedia of American Law)."
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/context
Example sentence:

(De l'information explique le suivant: 'Des conditions d'action et la livraison des profits ou des bénéfices pour une gestion d'affaires inefficace qui manque de professionalisme à cause des pratiques impropres ou de la mauvaise conduite sont insinuée

'Il est sous-entendu qu'il y a une atteinte sur des droits des autres en ce qui concerne des profits réalisés, ensemble avec un lien informel entre l'atteinte et les bénéfices en raison de la conduite douteuse d'une gestion d'affaires.'

Note from asker:
Thank you Lisa, but this isn't a simple dictionary job, it's in a specific legal context
Something went wrong...
-3
2 days 2 hrs

disloyal unauthorised management

or disloyal (/ self-serving?) unauthorised management


gestion d’affaires imparfaite ou intéressée

means in fact:

gestion d’affaires d'autrui imparfaite ou intéressée

to avoid repeating all references already quoted, I would just summarise the elements of

"gestion d’affaires imparfaite ou intéressée"

which are:

1 - someone getting involved in some third person's business

2 - without any consent nor knowledge of that third person

3 - with a complete disregard for that third person's interests

Given the third element of the description of what's happening in this ST, the concept of "negotiorum gestio" has NOTHING to do with this ST, has no place whatsoever in any translation nor explanation.

Should be kept away with a veeery long barge pole!


Two situations similar in some aspects, but only one would have anything to do with the concept of "negotiorum gestio":

-- Your neighbour's house is empty;

-- You break into your neighbour's house;

(A) - to prevent a burst pipe or a water valve left open flooding the whole house;

(B) - to open valves and flood your neighbour's house.


(A) would be a case of "negotiorum gestio", and would entitle you in Continental law to claim from your neighbour whatever you paid to a locksmith to break open the door and a plumber to fix the leak.

(B) - wouldn't "entitle you" to anything but a lot of troubles. NOTHING to do with "negotiorum gestio" in any shape or form.

Now take a look at the ST ...






Peer comment(s):
disagree Conor McAuley : "Continental" law? Amongst a great deal of other issues. No references, for example. / Compare with Eliza's "disloyal management". Adjective order is incorrect too. https://lushthecontentagency.com/blog/copywriting-royal-orde...
36 mins
disagree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : "Imparfait" has a wider scope than your sugegstion of "unauthorised"; "intéressé" is more specific than your suggestion of "disloyal".
1 hr
disagree SafeTex : I think that the two adjectives are in contradiction. Disloyal suggests employee or agent/employer relationship (one of loyalty) and this then flies in the face of "unauthorised". it's much more about the employee/agent abusing the authority that he had
1 day 16 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
3 hrs

agency without authority in his/her/its own interests

Firstly, we can get a Swiss definition of "gestion d'affaires" here:

(About 10 paragraphs into the text)

https://aurelienbamde.com/2020/10/15/la-gestion-daffaires-re...

"==> Notion

La ***gestion d’affaires*** est définie à l’article 1301 du Code civil comme le fait de « celui qui, sans y être tenu, gère sciemment et utilement l’affaire d’autrui, à l’insu ou sans opposition du maître de cette affaire ».

Il s’agit autrement dit pour une personne, que l’on appelle le gérant d’affaires, d’intervenir spontanément dans les affaires d’autrui, le maître de l’affaire ou le géré, aux fins de lui rendre un service.

La particularité de la gestion d’affaires est qu’elle suppose qu’une personne ait agi pour le compte d’un tiers et dans son intérêt, ce, sans avoir été mandaté par celui-ci, ni qu’il en ait été tenu informé."

Then, we go to Bridge:

"gestion d'affaires (sans titre) (negotiorum gestor [as I think Liz refers to]) - one who in the absence of another looks after his affairs or interests or acts as his agent without previous authority; self-appointed (unauthorised, purported agent)."

So far so good. The official English translation of the SCC confirms "agency without authority".
FR : https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/24/233_245_233/fr
EN: https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/24/233_245_233/en

No mentions of "imparfaite" or "intéressée", so now we have to get creative.

French to German and back to English:

CHAPPUIS Christine, Gestion d’affaires imparfaite (Geschäftsanmassung) : du nouveau,
RSDA 2000 p. 201 ss (cité : Chappuis C. [2000]).

gestion d'affaires imparfaite > Geschäftsanmassung


Next:

https://books.google.fr/books?id=6hwtlFHf3AYC&pg=PA89&lpg=PA...

"negotiorum gestio in German law has no equivalent counterpart in English law"

So, "without authorisation" for "imparfaite", confirmed. The word "imparfaite", for Bridge, is redundant.


Luckily, after all that, with "intéressé", I think we can go fairly one-to-one. I suggest:

self-interested

OR

in his/her/its own interests


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Note added at 3 hrs (2021-03-12 17:29:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

BACK TO THE START, KIND OF?

Looks like the Latin is fine and is used in English:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negotiorum_gestio

https://www.merriam-webster.com/legal/negotiorum gestio

About 20,000 matches, including:
Negotiorum Gestio: A Civilian Concept in the Common Law ...https://www.cambridge.org › article· Traduire cette page
de D Sheehan · 2006 · Cité 11 fois — This paper assesses whether English law recognizes a concept of negotiorum gestio. Claimants intervening in other' affairs and seeking restitution or ...


PERSONALLY, I would use both an English version and the Latin above, in italics, with one or the other in round brackets.

---------------------------------------------------

For the record, IATE's translation: https://iate.europa.eu/search/standard/result/1615569014320/...

Approves of using the Latin too.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2021-03-12 17:47:02 GMT)
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One very last word for the moment, in fact a question: does negotiorum gestio cover the whole of the French term? I don't think it does, I don't think it covers the "intéressée" part, so you would have to say

negotiorum gestio in his/her/its own interests

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Note added at 5 hrs (2021-03-12 18:55:11 GMT)
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To Chris: read the top of the page here https://books.google.fr/books?id=6hwtlFHf3AYC&pg=PA89&lpg=PA...

which talks about copyright and property -- copyright infringement and not TM infringement, but infringement and "unauthorised agency" all the same.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2021-03-12 19:14:31 GMT)
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To Chris:

I was starting to think I was off my rocker, don't do that to me!!!

I kind of fluked upon that passage too, lucky break.

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Note added at 2 days 3 hrs (2021-03-14 16:57:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


https://www.loisuisse.ch/fra/sr/220/220_039.htm

"Loi fédérale complétant le Code civil suisse
Deuxième partie
Des diverses espèces de contrats
Titre quatorzième
De la gestion d’affaires"

WE HAVE THE STANDARD SCENARIO:

"Art. 419
A. Droits et obligations du gérant
I. Exécution de l’affaire
Celui qui, sans mandat, gère l’affaire d’autrui, est tenu de la gérer conformément aux intérêts et aux intentions présumables du maître."

AND THEN THE "GOES ROGUE" SCENARIO:

"Art. 423
II. Affaire entreprise dans l’intérêt du gérant
1 Lorsque la gestion n’a pas été entreprise dans l’intérêt du maître, celui-ci n’en a pas moins le droit de s’approprier les profits qui en résultent."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 days (2021-03-21 14:01:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Tome 57 -- the journey continues

"Agency" recurs in these texts and sources -- the same word every time.

FR
"Art. 28
[...]
3. Sont réservées les actions en dommages-intérêts et en réparation du
tort moral, ainsi que la remise du gain selon les dispositions sur la ***gestion d’affaires***.

EN
"3. Claims for damages and satisfaction and for handing over profits in
accordance with the provisions governing ***agency*** without authority
are reserved."

FR
"Art. 753
1. L’usufruitier qui a fait des impenses ou de nouveaux ouvrages sans y
être obligé peut réclamer une indemnité à la cessation de l’usufruit,
selon les règles de la ***gestion d’affaires***."

EN
"1. If the usufructuary has of his or her own free will incurred costs or
made improvements, on return of the object he or she may request
compensation in accordance with the provisions governing ***agency***
without authority."

FHS Bridge: "gestion d'affaires" = agency

"Gestion d'affaires" -- very common term in French Civil Law.


Conclusions:
1) "Gestion d'affaires" is a very specific term with a very specific meaning.
2) That meaning, see EN version of the Swiss Civil Code (reminder: context = Switzerland) and Bridge, is agency.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 days (2021-03-21 14:04:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

(Articles of the Swiss Civil Code)
Note from asker:
Thanks Conor but there is no relationship of agency invloved here, simply one (totally unconnected) company usurping another's trademarks
Yes, v. interesting: "voluntary agency without authority" with no equivalent in English law - this certainly fits the circumstances, so maybe back to the formal Latin term negotiorum gestio albeit this French text doesn't use that term anywhere
Peer comment(s):
neutral Francois Boye : This idea underlies the expression submitted by Allegro as well as my translation
47 mins
If anything I have put your ideas into the right register. And I am indebted to Liz, if I'm indebted to anybody, who provided the right Latin term. 500 words on my method and references is also clear proof of plagiarism! Wow!
disagree Daryo : only one small fly in the ointment:"qu’une personne ait agi pour le compte d’un tiers et dans son intérêt," HERE "son" = "et dans l'intérêt de ce tiers" so that concept would hardly be applicable to s.o. usurping s.o. else's trademark
1 day 19 hrs
The Merriam Webster entry for negotiorum gestio (and other sources, if I recall correctly) does not mention benevolence: "in the civil law of Louisiana : the management of or interference with the business or affairs of another without authority"
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

12 mins
Reference:

Reference only

Gestion d'affaires en droit civil français — Wikipédia
fr.wikipedia.org › wiki › Gestion_d'a...

1.
2.
Translate this page
La gestion d'affaires (ou negotiorum gestio) est le premier des trois quasi-contrats régis par le Code civil français, le second étant le paiement de l'indu et le ...


poslovodstvo brez naročila | Slovenian to English ... - ProZ.com
www.proz.com › law-contracts › 343...

1.
Translate this page
3 Sept 2009 — conduct of business without mandate (negotiorum gestio) Odškodninski zahtevek je utemeljila na načelu prepovedi neupravičene obogatitve ..



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 25 mins (2021-03-12 14:06:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


WWU Münster > Religion & Politics > Jansen, Nils, Prof. Dr. iur.www.uni-muenster.de › antragsteller
Translate this page
Juristenzeitung 75, No. 5: 213-223. doi ... Gewinnhaftung bei Geschäftsanmaßung . ... ****Management of another‟s affairs without a mandate (Negotiorum gestio)*** .
Note from asker:
Thanks! This is making me wonder whether the concept of negotiorum gestio holds good for Switzerland
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Conor McAuley : Right Latin term, German term, English translation, everything but the "intéressée" bit! / Daryo: nothing about "protect" here: "civil law of Louisiana : the management of or interference with the business or affairs of another without authority" Merr.-W.
4 hrs
neutral Daryo : only one detail that makes this concept non-applicable here: it's supposed to be done in good fait and in order to protect the interest of the owner of the thing", as it's a ground for claiming compensation from the owner for the effort expended
1 day 22 hrs
Something went wrong...
11 hrs
Reference:

gestion d'affaires intéressée, gestion d'affaires "non désintéressée"

https://www.persee.fr/doc/juro_0990-1027_1999_num_12_2_2524

Bonneman Cécile. Appréciation jurisprudentielle des conditions de la gestion d'affaires "non désintéressée". In: Revue juridique de l'Ouest, 1999-2. pp. 263-280.

DOI : https://doi.org/10.3406/juro.1999.2524

www.persee.fr/doc/juro_0990-1027_1999_num_12_2_2524

Article covering two aspects :

"Plan
I - Justification ambiguë des conditions d'existence de la gestion d'affaires "non désintéressée"
II - Caractère déterminant de l'utilité dans la gestion d'affaires "non désintéressée"



https://www.dictionnaire-juridique.com/definition/de-in-rem-...

""De in rem verso" est une expression latine qui désigne un type d'actions subsidiaires connues du droit romain, dont l'appellation sous cette forme est encore, mais rarement, utilisée de nos jours, pour regrouper l'"enrichissement sans cause ", la "gestion d'affaires", et l' action en "répétition de l'indu". Ces actions sont dénommés par le Code civil des "quasi-contrats", dénomination critiquée par la doctrine puisque le contrat suppose un accord des consentements alors que précédemment l'appauvrissement du patrimoine de celui qui agit en justice ne trouve pas sa cause dans une expression de sa volonté."



https://aurelienbamde.com/2020/10/15/les-effets-de-la-gestio...

"2.3 La répartition du coût de l’intervention entre les quasi-parties

L’article 1301-4 du Code civil prévoit que si l’’intérêt personnel du gérant à se charger de l’affaire d’autrui n’exclut pas l’application des règles de la gestion d’affaires, il n’en reste pas moins que cette circonstance doit être prise en compte quant au droit du gérant à être remboursé et indemnisé.

Aussi, ce texte prévoit-il, en son second alinéa, que « dans ce cas, la charge des engagements, des dépenses et des dommages se répartit à proportion des intérêts de chacun dans l’affaire commune. »

Il ressort de cette disposition que lorsque l’intervention du gérant n’est pas totalement désintéressée, il devra supporter une partie du coût définitif des actions réalisées.

Cette réparation se fait à due proportion des intérêts de chaque quasi-partie dans l’affaire, ce qui ne sera pas sans soulever des difficultés d’évaluation lors du règlement des comptes."

[...]

"L’indifférence du caractère intéressé de l’intervention du gérant
La jurisprudence considère que la ratification peut opérer nonobstant l’intervention intéressée du gérant.
Seule condition posée par les juridictions dans cette hypothèse : il doit être établi que le gérant était animé par la volonté de gérer l’affaire d’autrui et que cette gestion n’est pas une conséquence secondaire de la conduite de ses propres affaires
La ratification ne peut ainsi jamais couvrir l’absence de volonté du gérant de gérer les affaires du maître."


https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/id/LEGIARTI000032023874...

"Code civil
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ChronoLégi
Version à la date du(format JJ/MM/AAAA)
01/10/2016
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Dans « Chapitre Ier : La gestion d'affaires (Articles 1301 à 1301-5) »
Voir les modifications dans le temps
Version en vigueur au 01 octobre 2016
Code civil
ReplierLivre III : Des différentes manières dont on acquiert la propriété (Articles 711 à 2278)
ReplierTitre III : Des sources d'obligations (Articles 1100 à 1303-4)
Article 1100 Article 1100-1 Article 1100-2
ReplierSous-titre III : Autres sources d'obligations (Articles 1300 à 1303-4)
Article 1300
Chapitre Ier : La gestion d'affaires (Articles 1301 à 1301-5)
Naviguer dans le sommaire du code
Article 1301
Modifié par Ordonnance n°2016-131 du 10 février 2016 - art. 2
Celui qui, sans y être tenu, gère sciemment et utilement l'affaire d'autrui, à l'insu ou sans opposition du maître de cette affaire, est soumis, dans l'accomplissement des actes juridiques et matériels de sa gestion, à toutes les obligations d'un mandataire.
Versions
Article 1301-1
Création Ordonnance n°2016-131 du 10 février 2016 - art. 2
Il est tenu d'apporter à la gestion de l'affaire tous les soins d'une personne raisonnable ; il doit poursuivre la gestion jusqu'à ce que le maître de l'affaire ou son successeur soit en mesure d'y pourvoir.

Le juge peut, selon les circonstances, modérer l'indemnité due au maître de l'affaire en raison des fautes ou de la négligence du gérant.

Versions
Article 1301-2
Création Ordonnance n°2016-131 du 10 février 2016 - art. 2
Celui dont l'affaire a été utilement gérée doit remplir les engagements contractés dans son intérêt par le gérant.

Il rembourse au gérant les dépenses faites dans son intérêt et l'indemnise des dommages qu'il a subis en raison de sa gestion.

Les sommes avancées par le gérant portent intérêt du jour du paiement.

Versions
Article 1301-3
Création Ordonnance n°2016-131 du 10 février 2016 - art. 2
La ratification de la gestion par le maître vaut mandat.

Versions
Article 1301-4
Création Ordonnance n°2016-131 du 10 février 2016 - art. 2
L'intérêt personnel du gérant à se charger de l'affaire d'autrui n'exclut pas l'application des règles de la gestion d'affaires.

Dans ce cas, la charge des engagements, des dépenses et des dommages se répartit à proportion des intérêts de chacun dans l'affaire commune.

Versions
Article 1301-5
Création Ordonnance n°2016-131 du 10 février 2016 - art. 2
Si l'action du gérant ne répond pas aux conditions de la gestion d'affaires mais profite néanmoins au maître de cette affaire, celui-ci doit indemniser le gérant selon les règles de l'enrichissement injustifié.

Versions"
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree writeaway
11 hrs
neutral Daryo : yes, but all his is about acting in protecting the interest of the owner / unwitting "principal"
1 day 11 hrs
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