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Glossary entry

Deutsch term or phrase:

[psychische Störung, die] versorgungsrechtlich Anerkennung gefunden hätte

Englisch translation:

[mental disorder that] had been recognised as making him eligible for disability benefits

Added to glossary by Sebastian Witte
Jul 23, 2021 19:21
2 yrs ago
33 viewers *
Deutsch term

versorgungsrechtlich

Deutsch > Englisch Medizin Sozialwissenschaften, Soziologie, Ethik usw. Psychiatrical expert opinion
DE:
Er bezog sich auf eine Jahrzehntelang übergreifende psychische Störung, die in seinem Heimatland behandelt auch ***versorgungsrechtlich Anerkennung gefunden hätte***, ohne hierfür medizinische Befunde vorlegen zu können, die er aber angeblich besorgen könne).

EN:
He made reference to an overarching mental disorder that he had had for years, which had also been treated in his own country and ***recognised as making him eligible under occupational assistance law***, without being able to exhibit any medical findings to support his statement, in regard to which he did, however, allege that he could obtain them).

Is this something to do with government or professional aid under the West Asian law of reduced earning capacity or incapacity for work owing to that mental disorder? In any case, I need help with the phrasing. The translation does not require certification.

Textual background and context: highly confidential.

Best regards,
Proposed translations (Englisch)
3 entitled to disability benefits
3 +2 recognized for [pension] benefits purposes
3 entitlement to care support/benefits
3 personal recognition
1 in compliance with its occupational safety and health legislation
References
Versorgungsrecht - psychisch Kranker
Change log

Jul 24, 2021 22:23: Sebastian Witte changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/60654">Sebastian Witte's</a> old entry - "versorgungsrechtlich Anerkennung gefunden hätte"" to ""recognised as making him eligible for disability benefits""

Discussion

Stuart and Aida Nelson Jul 24, 2021:
I completely agree with Anne and with you, this sentence is so unclear, and it is very difficult to know exactly what the expert report means here. However, normally, findings (medizinische Befunde) are associated with diagnosis. It can well be that this person was just diagnosed but was never treated. So he/she could potentially obtain proof of the diagnosis.
Sebastian Witte (asker) Jul 24, 2021:
... much for the asylum seeker living on the edge who presents to the doctor and explains his tough case from that perspective - of wishing to remain in this country, for which, inter alia, a documented, consistent case history including proof of source country treatment is needed. So it says "[doctor’s perspective unclear, ?]" twice in that sentence.
Sebastian Witte (asker) Jul 24, 2021:
Thanks, Anne. Like I said, even the meaning of the grammar, as it were, is unclear. However, I will have to find a way ... translator has to make things easier for target text user rather than making them even more complicated than they already are for source text user. As there are minor pointers from the context, the somewhat erratic style of that doctor who does not always get his words right, and the textual background, that the original translation posted does reflect the meaning of the grammar, so to speak ("which had also been treated in his home country" being reported speech), and what the doctor actually meant to say, I might leave it at that and only put a question mark in brackets as this translation is not certified. I think an actual explanation in hard brackets (I don't like footnotes) might already overcomplicate matters for the reader and there is no time left for an agency query. The normal educated native speaker to native speaker understanding of "die in seinem Heimatland behandelt auch ***versorgungsrechtlich Anerkennung gefunden hätte***" is "had it been treated in his home country, it would have actually been recognised ...", but that reading does not do ...
Anne Schulz Jul 23, 2021:
Ich finde diese Formulierung so uneindeutig, dass man sie eigentlich nur relativ wörtlich übersetzen und mit einer A.d.Ü. versehen kann. Weder ist klar, ob diese postulierte Erkrankung im Heimatland behandelt wurde oder nicht ("in seinem Heimatland behandelt" könnte sowohl "sie wurde behandelt" als auch "da sie behandelt wurde" oder "wenn sie behandelt worden wäre" bedeuten), noch kann man entnehmen, ob sie (deshalb) in seinem Heimatland versorgungsrechtlich anerkannt wurde, dort anerkannt worden wäre (wenn sie dort [diagnostiziert und] behandelt worden wäre), in Deutschland anerkannt worden ist (weil sie in seinem Heimatland behandelt wurde) oder in Deutschland anerkannt worden wäre, wenn sie in seinem Heimatland behandelt worden wäre.
Sebastian Witte (asker) Jul 23, 2021:
Thanks very much everybody. => "He made reference to an overarching mental disorder that he had had for decades, which had also been treated in his home country and recognised as making him eligible for claims under the law of occupational benefits, without being able to exhibit any medical findings to support his statement, in regard to which he did, however, allege that he could obtain them".
Sebastian Witte (asker) Jul 23, 2021:
Also, did his issue get treated there? Not completely sure even though that seems to be the case.



Years => decades
Own country => home country

Proposed translations

16 Stunden
Selected

entitled to disability benefits


He referred to a serious psychiatric disorder spanning decades, which had it been treated in his home country; he would have also been entitled to disability benefits. However, he is unable to submit any supporting medical findings for this but says that he would be able to obtain them.

A mental health condition is considered a disability if it has a long-term effect on your normal day-to-day activity. This is defined under the Equality Act 2010

If your mental health condition means you are disabled you can get support at work from your employer

https://www.gov.uk/when-mental-health-condition-becomes-disa...

Disability Living Allowance (DLA) is a benefit for people who need help with their personal care, need supervision and/or need help with getting around.

https://www.rethink.org/advice-and-information/rights-restri...

Die Sozialmedizin ist ein interdisziplinäres Grundlagenfach der Humanmedizin, welches die Wechselwirkungen zwischen Krankheit, Gesundheit, Individuum und Gesellschaft sowie Organisationsstrukturen des Gesundheitswesens und des medizinischen Versorgungssystems analysiert, beschreibt und Strategien zur Prävention und Bekämpfung von Krankheiten entwickelt

Fachärzte in Deutschland können die Zusatzbezeichnung Sozialmedizin erlangen. Die Weiterbildung (Musterweiterbildungsordnung der Bundesärztekammer 2010; Groner et al 2006) sieht als Inhalte vor den Erwerb von Kenntnissen, Erfahrungen und Fertigkeiten in

den Aufgaben und Strukturen der Sozialleistungsträger, z.B. Kranken-, Pflege-, Rente-, und Unfallversicherung, Arbeits- und Versorgungsverwaltung, Sozialhilfe und Sozialleistungen im öffentlichen Dienst

https://publikationsserver.tu-braunschweig.de/servlets/MCRFi...

Die Versorgungsverwaltung hat Aufgaben im Rahmen der sozialen Sicherung, im Bereich des Sozialen Entschädigungsrechts und des Schwerbehindertenrechts. Die Versorgungsverwaltung ist bundesweit nicht einheitlich organisiert.

https://www.talentplus.de/lexikon/Lex-Versorgungsverwaltung/

I hope it helps
Note from asker:
Thanks.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+2
54 Min.

recognized for [pension] benefits purposes

He mentioned mental health issues that had persisted for decades, had been treated in his home country and had also been recognized for pension benefits purposes, yet (he) was unable to produce any relevant medical documentation, while claiming that he could provide such evidence/proof.

(dies lässt - wie im dt. Original- offen, wo er diese Bezüge in Anspruch genommen hat)
Peer comment(s):
agree Michael Martin, MA
5 Min.
agree Adrian MM. : rather with welfare than pension benefits.
2 Stunden
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1 Stunde

in compliance with its occupational safety and health legislation

He referred to a psychiatric disorder spanning decades which purportedly had been treated in his home country in compliance with its occupational safety and health legislation, without being able to submit any supporting medical findings which he could allegedly obtain as evidence.


Safety and health legislation - Safety and health at ... - EU-OSHA
https://osha.europa.eu › safety-and-health-legislation
European Directives set out minimum requirements and fundamental principles, such as the principle of prevention and risk assessment, as well as the ...

National legislation on safety and health at work - EU-OSHA
https://osha.europa.eu › safety-and-health-legislation
European directives set out the minimum standards for safety and health in the workplace. The EU directives are implemented through the national legislation ...
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7 Stunden

entitlement to care support/benefits

late but might help

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2021-07-24 03:10:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

don't think this has anything to do with pensions
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14 Stunden

personal recognition

'versorgungsrechtlich Annerkennung gefunden hätte'
'recognized under pension law, in line with regular pension contributions from a place of employment'

The information suggests that the personal problem is recognized. I understand that the person might wish to claim compensation or financial support due to a reduction in ability to work a full time week, which I believe, in an Asian country is a 38 hour week.
I found two documents on employment laws in Asia. One suggests that international law has been introduced in Asia if there's been a rise in unlawfulness. Another document lists the Asian countries and laws in connection with employment rights, absence leave, holiday entitlements, redundancies and fair or unlawful dismissals, but the particular issue of a person who might work a part time week, less than the full 38 hours is difficult to find.
Example sentence:

Des besondere Problematik oder Ausgabe einer Person, die eine Teilzeitwoche, weniger als die vollen 38 Stunden, arbeiten könnte, ist shwer zu finden.

Reference:

https://www.linklaters.com/-/media/files/linklaters/pdf/mkt/london/global-guide-to-employment-law-in-asia.ashx?rev=49678561-3ec2-44c9-8139-f

https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/CHHJ7378-International-Law-Research-Paper-INT-191031-WEB.pdf

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Reference comments

15 Stunden
Reference:

Versorgungsrecht - psychisch Kranker

Für den therapeutischen Zugang wie auch z.B. den versorgungsrechtlichen Status gibt es keine scharfe begriffliche Unterscheidung, ob es sich bei dieser Personengruppe um psychisch Kranke oder seelisch Behinderte handelt.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=K49dDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA61&lpg...

Da weder ein Versorgungsnetz aufzubauen sei, das 80% der Bevölkerung erfasse, noch Normalitätsbegriff praktikabel sei, der nur 20% als normal erscheinen lasse, müsse man sich auf die diagnostische Fähigkeit der Fachärtze verlassen.

Dieser Aufgabe entspricht der versorgungsrechtliche Krankheitsbegriff nicht mehr.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=73WeBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA132&lp...

Psychisch Kranke sind gesellschaftlich und gesundheitspolitisch (noch) nicht körperlich Kranken gleichgestellt, Psychiatrie und Psychotherapie gehören nicht zu den heilkundlichen Kernfächern. Dies liegt auch daran, dass ihr Krankheitsmodell eine grenzüberschreitende Sonderstellung bedingt; nach Aufgaben, Grundkonzeption und methodischem Ansatz fallen die Psycho-Fächer in einen nach vielen Seiten offenen, humanwissenchaftlichen Grenzbereich. Ihre völlige Ausgliederung aus der Medizin würde daher aufgrund dann ungesicherter fachlicher Verankerungen und fehlender versorgungsrechtlicher Ressourcen mit erheblichen Nachteilen für den psychisch Kranken verbunden sein.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LEJ4DwAAQBAJ&pg=PT193&lp...

Versorgung psychisch Kranker

https://www.nuernberg.de/imperia/md/psychosoziale_arbeitsgem...
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