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English translation: Takeover of benefits arrangements
17:18 Aug 20, 2022
French to English translations [PRO] Bus/Financial - Law (general)
French term or phrase:relai par la prévoyance
This is a a report prepared by consultants for a managing director involved in some employees being transferred from one company to another, including himself. "CCN de l'immobilier" means collective agreement applicable within the property sector.
"CCN de l’immobilier (la Société) Maintien de salaire par l’employeur Pour tout salarié ayant a minima un an d’ancienneté :
Maintien de salaire à 100%, sans délai de carence : pendant 45 jours pour les non-cadres pendant 90 jours pour les cadres Pour tout salarié ayant a minima un an d’ancienneté :
Maintien de salaire à 90%, sans délai de carence, pendant une durée définie selon l’ancienneté (de 30 jours à 190 jours) ;
Relai par la prévoyance A partir du 45e/ 90e jour et jusqu’au 180e jour : Maintien de salaire à 100% A partir du 181e jour : Maintien de salaire à 30% A compter de la fin de la prise en charge par l’employeur (ou du 180e jour pour les salariés ayant moins d’un an d’ancienneté) : Maintien de salaire à 60%
Garantie d’emploi ..."
The context (lines after) indicates the idea here. I in fact thought that relai was a spelling mistake but according to Wiktionary this is a legitimate "post-1990" spelling of relais. My stab at this might be something like "Continued benefits arrangements"... but I've often found the word relai(s) to be quite mysterious.
Explanation: Best Practices for Handling Second Injury Fund Cases in New ... https://loisllc.com › best-practices-for-handling-second-... 3 Oct 2016 — Due to the added complexity of the “takeover” of benefits at some point by the Fund, the Division has promulgated a special Order to be used ...
Understanding New Jersey's Second Injury Fund. https://loisllc.com › understanding-new-jerseys-second-i...
4 Jan 2013 — Due to the added complexity of the “takeover” of benefits at some point by the Fund, the Division has promulgated a special Order to be used ...
Well I had to think about it, and I thought I'd changed the bit about the State.
The terms "insurance benefits" and "assurance benefits" are used, that's what provident schemes provide ("provident benefits" is less used, based on search match results.
Both the employer and the employee pay into provident schemes was what I concluded from my research.
Apologies, I failed to show in the excerpt that this was actually a section in a table where the "terms" applicable in 2 types of collective agreement are in fact compared.
So one is saying "Maintien de salaire à 100%, sans délai de carence..." and the other is saying "Maintien de salaire à 90%, sans délai de carence...". The first then says "A partir du 45e/ 90e jour ...".
So my interpretation is that the normal Soc. Sec. arrangements provide cover until the 45th (or 90th day) ... and from that point forward some other arrangement kicks in, as somehow arranged by the first collective agreement. While for the other one the equivalent arrangement is "A compter de la fin de la prise en charge par l’employeur...".
"Provident fund" might still be appropriate: I really don't know. I think there is some doubt how they're using prévoyance here...
need a glossary that has never been reprinted since it was published back in 1998 (i.e. at the time of Internet... 1.0?), especially in a field that changes fast?
Ok. I understand that's not what is under way at the moment, but anyway what you're translating are provisions in an agreement that would apply in case something happened. What I don't get is what is the event triggering these clauses. It says "delai de carence" which as yopu know means they'd kick in immediatly, but immediately after what I don't know. In your case it's not a matter of a top-up scheme for mediacl expenses, but of a a different type of risk, although it can be underwritten often by the same insueres or mutalités, part of a general insurance policy or separately as far as I know. Anyway the bottom line to me is, as far as your question is concerned: a "contrat de prévoyance" , that is a specific insurance scheme/policy intended to that effect, will be 'handed over' the people (technically the payment in consideration of their service or employment status) after a certain period of time (initally they will have been under other provisions, paid by the employer at differetn rates accordinf to their seniority and status). RELAI ~ HANDOVER for me.
I don't know if that makes sense according to your document.
Yes, I think that's a clear outline of the French social security situation and there's an expression in English which fits perfectly this whole mutuelle or complémentaire arrangement which exists in countries like France: "top-up": a "top-up insurance scheme" or whatever.
You can't know this, but in this document there is no suggestion of anyone no longer having "steady" employment here: part of the technical question dealt with in the text is whether the contracts can simply be transferred from one company to the new one, whether the same collective agreement will apply, or whether it must be a different one, whether the employees' consent is required for this transfer, or whether they have the right to refuse the transfer itself, etc.
There is no mention or suggestion of transferring to a state of even temporary uncertainty.
The mention to healthcare was made to illustrate why such things as "mutualités" exist. Sure, percentages vary but generally speaking that's the concept. You're insured by the "assurance maladie" which is state funded by general taxation. It only covers (except some cases) part of the costs and you have to have a "mutualité" which compensates ( reste à charge). If you can't afford it or you don't qualify this is provided by a special public fund ( complémentaire solidaire).
AS FOR the question, my understanding is it's about a process to manage some major change in the professional situation of people working in the real estate sector. What Is being translated are articles of the agreement that goversns certain aspects of this process, namely the transition from regular steady employment (hence regular payslip issued by the employer) and a state un (temporary) uncertainty. They stipulate that after x time the people will be paid as per the provisions of one of those insurance policy generally known as "prévoyance".
Ha. Rather than pay, er, 115€ for an e-book I managed to find a copy of the "real" book in Milwaukee for $5 (£13 inc. shipping to UK). Bridge is my Bible for legalese (as you may know), so expecting great things from this.
Conor, could you say where that Council of Europe terminology comes from? Is it a book? Care to give the title: I might want to buy one. Couldn't find online.
NB note that they are talking there about "caisse de prévoyance", not prévoyance tout court
@Allegro Your suggestion "takeover of benefits arrangements" works pretty well for me. It does actually seem to fit the French expression and crucially the following contextual lines.
FPC, most of what you explain more or less makes sense (in your answer and in the discussion), but I don't know where your fraction in "1/3 of healthcare expenses" comes from, but it's not particularly relevant to the actual words we are asked to try to translate here.
The real issue is WHY the provident fund provisions are required, but again, we're not asked to explain why, just to translate the words in question. Perhaps the unspoken context is "in the event of sickness"....?
in France "prévoyance", as Conor said, has quite a broad range of meanings, but it's technically usually resticted to insurance against adverse events in life (dread disease etc.) that result in a loss of income or inability to work. This insurance can come in the form of a separate policy with an insurance company or as part of the package of the mandatory insurance for the remaining third (1/3) of healthcare expenses that every French worker must subscribe with a "mutualité" as the "Assurance Maladie" only foots 70% of your health bills( the remaining 30% depending on you income)
In this case I think it's used to mean protection against loss of revenue ALSO from unemployment or temporary inability of the employer(s) to pay (whatever the reason), because that's what the Collective agreement for the real estate/property sector provides, as the French workplace is regulated by both legislation (code) and industry agreements (contrats collectifs de branche). Other insurance policies called "prévoyance" don't include that protection against it.
First, the terms in English and in French encompass a wide range of things, as previously concluded.
Second, my gut tells me that a provident scheme is private-run, not State-run. But I'm wrong (although the reference refers to pensions only):
"A *provident fund* is a retirement fund run by the government. They are generally compulsory, often through taxes, and are funded by both employer and employee contributions.
Provident Fund vs. Pension Fund: What's the Difference?
So that sounds like "social security", though I would usually associate that term with government-funded programs, not private ones. Perhaps your initial suggestion of "benefits" works best.
I'm quite happy to accept Myriam's translation of prévoyance as "provident fund", but my understanding has tended to be that in Europe, in particular, this term usually makes reference to a whole infrastructure of state-provided benefits and insurance systems.
Elsewhere in this text we see "Un tableau d’analyse détaillé est joint à la présente note (annexe n°1). Les points essentiels y sont comparés et synthétisés (conclusion et rupture du contrat de travail, congés exceptionnels pour évènements familiaux, durée du travail, maladie, prévoyance…)."
To me this suggests a commonplace "blanket" expression making reference to this "hinterland" of benefits and allowances, not necessarily a specific institution or company. But I'd be happy to be corrected.
I think by "relais" ("relai" being either a typo or an alternative spelling as you note, Mpoma), they mean some sort of bridging or transition given the employees being transferred to a new company. So perhaps "provident fund transition".
I found "relais" near "prévoyance" in this document, in the context of drawing a "relais" between "prévoyance" and retirement, which appears consistent with the idea that it means a transition or bridge. Hope this helps!
b. Pour la retraite Si la personne malade ne sort pas indemne de cette période ? Pourra-t-elle liquider sa retraite ? Le relais entre la prévoyance et la retraite se fera-t-il ? Et pour quel montant ? Qu’en est-il si sa retraite est liquidée en l’état ? Qu’en est-il de la retraite complémentaire et de la réversion ? Il faut savoir que plus de la moitié des retraites liquidées le sont après qu’un complément d’information ait été apporté par le futur retraité. Comment fait-on si l’on n’est plus en pleine possession de tous ses moyens ? https://www.afigec.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/15_05_Des-...
Myriam Seers Canada Local time: 16:58 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 8
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks. Seems a possibilty, but in fact I've come across "prévoyance" thousands of times, and it translates as many things. "Provident fund" might be a little too specifically North American.
peer agreement (net): +2
